Right, but the point being is i do not believe he is taking advantage of anybody. No one is putting a gun to your head. You agree on a rate or you don't. The driver is the only one who can decide what their worth. Like you said, no need to complicate the simple 10-4??? :-/
What's fair and equitable
- Thread starter cliff
- Start date
Ummm....no. I have been in business a long time. I could easily hire people at a cheaper rate.
Especially the folks who are ignorant or simply don't have a working knowledge of how the expedite industry works. Again, just not a practice that I would engage in.
This would be a place where integrity might come in.
Liken it to selling a used car with a defect. Some would sell it for top dollar and never mention the defect, I would elect to sell it for less with the defect known to the buyer. That is your difference.
Especially the folks who are ignorant or simply don't have a working knowledge of how the expedite industry works. Again, just not a practice that I would engage in.
This would be a place where integrity might come in.
Liken it to selling a used car with a defect. Some would sell it for top dollar and never mention the defect, I would elect to sell it for less with the defect known to the buyer. That is your difference.
intransit
Seasoned Expediter
Are you saying its more expensive to pay someone a daily rate than the traditional methods of payment, ie by the mile, percentage or hourly? I mean when it all comes down to it aren't we all striving to make so much money a day? If you can really name your price, wouldn't that save a lot of struggle? For the driver, that is.
what is the catch, though, in paying a daily rate? What's in it for the owner.
what is the catch, though, in paying a daily rate? What's in it for the owner.
Simple. You wouldn't be the only driver. So when a load comes up, guess what.....it goes to whomever is the cheapest. So...you are competing with people that will cover a load for $50.00 based on what is posted.
You just answered your own question. If people don't know what their time is worth (A.K.A., IGNORANT ABOUT THEIR WORTH), it is easy to take advantage of them. Just because someone is ignorant of what they're worth, or of the prevailing rates in the industry, it does not justify taking advantage of them.
Think it through a little more.
If the driver knows what the rates are and knows what the load is worth, it's not.
If, as a driver, you had no clue as to what the average wages for the industry were, you would be at a distinct disadvantage. If anyone were to take advantage of that disadvantage, they would be taking advantage.
Yes, and most likely you would be getting paid the prevailing wage.
Yeah, but the caveat to your caveat is you run the load and then go back home. No staying out for weeks or months at a time. Once the load is delivered and you head back home, the rate stops.
It's as stable as getting a contracted rate per mile, like with Panther.
Haven't thought that one through all that far, either, huh.
Yes Dave, but it's just like anything else, if you hire those on say at a 65/35 or even 70/30 split or whatever you feel would be taking advantage of them, how long do you think they are going to be around when they see everyone else getting 60/40? You will either have to renegotiate or they will be gone, so don't make it sound like you deserve a medal for doing what your supposed to do and treating the driver fairly. You are also doing it as a smart business decision to reduce your own headaches and maximize your own revenue as well by hopefully retaining long term drivers and not have empty trucks sitting.
What makes you think it would be any different with what the op is proposing?
I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has. Everybody assumed the op would be taking advantage of drivers when it's the driver that tells the owner what they will run for. Nobody is taking advantage of anybody! Sheesh!
What makes you think it would be any different with what the op is proposing?
I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has. Everybody assumed the op would be taking advantage of drivers when it's the driver that tells the owner what they will run for. Nobody is taking advantage of anybody! Sheesh!
There is no way to know if anyone is being taken advantage of unless we knew how far people are driving for how much. Honestly though its none of our business either.
Sent from my Fisher Price ABC-123.
No need for a medal but without causing repetition, read Turtle's post.
now that's funny isn't that what happens every time you log n to Americas backhaul network sylectus? oh and I never hear anyone complain about how much double brokering goes on there right or not? how many times have you seen tri-state put in your email Need best rate? for once I would love to see hey this customer will pay big bucks so bid what your worth. we cant cover it so you might as well get it all.NO it will never happen. Everyone wants a piece of the pie and they are all out to make as much as they can even me. but try to tell people you will give them what they think they are worth and let the assumptions begin. And for you to come in and say in a nut shell this is who will haul this load for me the cheapest is just slanderous when you have never even talked to any of my drivers to ask them what's up. when I offered up a load to cheri was she the cheapest day rate? its not all peaches and cream here but drivers could do a lot worse. how many panther drivers first settlement is more than a couple hundred bucks. used to be you worked for them for 21 days and by the time you got your first check you still owed them money. does that still go on dave? I would hope they have improved over the last 10 years but just had to ask.
I agree to just be able to drive up to 1000 miles in a 24 hour period and don't drag ***
As far as pay goes, how is that different than sitting in a truck (or at home for that matter) while on a percentage split with no or unacceptably low load offers for a period of time?
No it's not, as with a contracted per mile rate you have no control over the length of the trips being offered so there is no stability as far as pay goes, while the op is saying that you will be worked for the entire day wether it be one long trip or a bunch of shorties so that is why you give him the daily rate you will work for (assuming max HOS) and let him worry about the logistics end regarding the number of trips etc.
Maybe you would care to elaborate as to why you think I haven't thought things through so others reading this as well as myself might gain some of the knowledge that you seem to think you possess, instead of acting unprofessionally and doing a snipe attack that unfortunately seems to have become all to often the norm for you since you took on the role of moderator.
You know Turtle, you're a really knowledgeable guy and I have lost count of the amount of fantastic info you have provided to everyone in these forums, but I have to tell you that that last comment was nothing more than a drive by snipe with no additional info that added nothing to this discussion and imo is conduct unbecoming of a moderator.
I've got pretty thick skin, so I'm not having a hissy fit, nor would I have responded with this had you explained why (whether I agreed with you or not), but to just say that without any info to back it up or add to the discussion makes you look.....well, let's just say it sure doesn't make you look deserving of being a moderator.
People have been suspended/banned for that type of posting behaviour.
I don't know that it is any different. It was your caveat, not mine.
I never said it was stable, I merely said it was as stable as being paid by the mile as with Panther. Neither is very stable. While being paid by the mile you have no idea from day to day what the miles will be, but when being paid a daily rate you have no idea how may days a week you'll work, either.
First of all, it's not a snipe attack. A snipe, much like a sniper in the military, is a thoroughly unexpected attack, usually from a distance, like in an unrelated thread where someone takes a pot shot at another member for no apparent reason. My "snipe attack" on you, as you put it, was a direct response to what you wrote, and it was in the thread in which you wrote it. That's not a snipe by any criteria you choose to employ. Second, mischaracterizing it as a snipe, and then connecting that falsehood to my role as a moderator when I was clearly not responding as a moderator, is in and of itself incredibly unprofessional, and rude. One might even consider it to be unprovoked attack. I do love a good irony. So thanks for that.
Yes, I'll elaborate on why I think you haven't thought it through. You said, "I think the only people in this industry that are getting taken advantage of are the ones getting paid by the mile." Do you really and truly think the ONLY people in this industry who are getting taken advantage of are the ones who are getting paid by the mile? You don't think the people who run on a percentage after the load is brokered by a 3PL and then by an in-house brokerage is being taken advantage of? You don't think those who are on a structured FSC, where the carrier keeps a sizable portion of the FSC, aren't being taken advantage of? You don't think people who are paying exorbitant weekly Qualcomm fees aren't being taken advantage of? You don't think people are being taken advantage of when the same load offer is sent to multiple trucks at the same time? You don't think people are being taken advantage of when dispatch lies to them or misleads them? You don't think people are being taken advantage of when a customer intentionally books a load with two or more trucks and gives it to whichever one get there first or books a load with a carrier and then continues to leave it out there for bidding in case someone will bid lower? Shall I go on?
So again, no, I don't think you thought it through very far. I think it was an utterly asinine statement coming from someone who has been in the business for longer than about a month. I had hoped that by me saying that I didn't think you had thought that through very far would prompt you to rethink your statement and perhaps restate it. You instead chose this route. So there it is.
Again, learn what a snipe even is, and drive-by, while yer at it. I responded directly to you. It wasn't a snipe. And I didn't respond as a moderator. Me being a moderator has nothing whatsoever to do with what I posted, and you know it.
If you had even moderately durable skin you wouldn't have viewed a disagreement as a personal attack, and you certainly wouldn't have tried to publicly degrade me personally as a moderator in your response.
Name one.
People get banned for attacking other members, but they don't get banned for disagreeing with what someone else says.
Attacked by a small shore bird? 
Attacked by a small shore bird?
No, not attacked by a small shore bird. It's also not an engineer on a navy ship, nor is it a last second eBay bid. I just got through explaining what a snipe is in the context of a forum thread, and you come up with "a small shore bird." Good grief. No wonder you are confused.
You belittled me twice in one posting telling me I didn't think things through yet offered no reason or info as to why you thought that way. If you had simply said "I disagree because" or had even just asked me to elaborate why I thought that way and then said you disagreed with my reply and even then had told me I didn't think things through enough because....., I could accept that.
Saying "Haven't thought that one through all that far, either, huh" with nothing else added as to why, is not a disagreement. It is nothing more than a "snipe" and it implies to the person you are directing it at that they are dumb and incompetent. It also makes you sound very arrogant as it implies you have knowledge that others don't, yet are not willing to share or explain.
I am aware you are not acting in the capacity of moderator here. However as a moderator you will always be held to a higher standard in all your postings by everyone because you are looked up to (at least by me anyway) so no, it's not conduct becoming of a moderator regardless of the capacity you are acting in.
I am also not looking to knock you down just because you are a moderator.
I mention it simply because it's an increasing pattern of arrogance I've noticed in many of your postings since you've become one, and it's not the Turtle I've known (not personally) and come to respect greatly over the years in this forum. I am not the only one who has noticed it either btw, just maybe the first one who has actually said something publicly.
The original OP asked about what the industry standard was with regards to a percentage split.
He asked and it was answered. Then it was presented that a daily rate of pay was better. There is no indication of that based on what has been posted. None at all. We can talk all day long about "what if's" but unless you know the rates, length of haul, and how many days someone is running, any argument winds up in the same place. So the statement that a daily rate is somehow better hasn't been presented. It is no different than saying a percentage based pay is better than mileage. That argument can't be made for either unless you have all the figures to make that determination.
As like anything else, if something is a good idea, pretty good guess that is what most would be doing.
He asked and it was answered. Then it was presented that a daily rate of pay was better. There is no indication of that based on what has been posted. None at all. We can talk all day long about "what if's" but unless you know the rates, length of haul, and how many days someone is running, any argument winds up in the same place. So the statement that a daily rate is somehow better hasn't been presented. It is no different than saying a percentage based pay is better than mileage. That argument can't be made for either unless you have all the figures to make that determination.
As like anything else, if something is a good idea, pretty good guess that is what most would be doing.
Murraycroexp
Veteran Expediter
We're never going to get the full details on every load run in order to determine that "better pay".
"Better pay" is subjective.
In a CV, if one could get $1.25 per mile to Key West from Detroit is that better pay that $1.05 per mile to Crossville, TN?
I say no.
Way too many factors to determine.
Way too much contradiction, *****ing, arguing an general discourse on these threads sometimes.
Maybe it's the "trucker" in many EO members that brings out the attitudes.
Just gets old.
I clear more threads than I read these days because I just can't stomach the crap between the *****y little school girls!!!!
I'm not singling out anyone. But the ****e gets thick in here sometimes.
"Better pay" is subjective.
In a CV, if one could get $1.25 per mile to Key West from Detroit is that better pay that $1.05 per mile to Crossville, TN?
I say no.
Way too many factors to determine.
Way too much contradiction, *****ing, arguing an general discourse on these threads sometimes.
Maybe it's the "trucker" in many EO members that brings out the attitudes.
Just gets old.
I clear more threads than I read these days because I just can't stomach the crap between the *****y little school girls!!!!
I'm not singling out anyone. But the ****e gets thick in here sometimes.
It was turning that way so I made a attempt to close it out based on what was posted.
Agreed. However I can understand the business model that the op presented and I can see how it could work as far as driver pay is concerned.
As to someone getting taken advantage of for 50.00/day I think was a little bit of an off the cuff statement as obviously all drivers talk to each other and nobody is going to stick around too long at any place if they feel they are getting significantly less than someone else, regardless if you are paid by the mile, percentage split or flat daily rate.