So you have a gun in your truck?

paullud

Veteran Expediter
5,000 British Police in 300 years

Police Roll of Honour Trust - National Police Officers Roll of Honour and Remembrance

Perhaps one of our EO mathematicians would care to do the ratio.



US Police Officers

19,000 in 220 years

Since the first recorded police death in 1791, there have been over 19,000 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty. Currently, there are 19,298 names engraved on the walls of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial

http://www.nleomf.com/facts/enforcement/

Just look at the math that is there, we have more than 6 times the population but less than 4 times the officer death rate up to today. It may be possible to calculate the per capita rate for the officers and the population with more figures but just looking at the long term it looks like it might be in favor of the armed officers.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
My house, in Harrogate, England, was broken into and the thieves made off with over 300lbs.

Hitler was able to do what he did because the population could not fight back. Same with Stalin, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, North Korea.

After WWII many leading Japanese military leaders where asked why they did not press their advantage at the beginning of the war. One of the main reasons given was that because the American public was armed they did not feel that they could put enough troops in to over come.

Many criminals in this country say that they fear an armed homeowner more than an armed policeman.

Keep in mind how the incest infested "royal families" came to power. By controlling their subjects with murder etc. They have controlled arm ownership from day one. Easier to control people.
Know where the term "getting caught red handed" came from? Know the penalty for getting caught red handed?

British subjects who own firearms have to jump through a zillion hoops. Does passing all those background checks earn them any respect or trust? Nope. In England, Scotland and Wales any subject who owns a firearm is subject to unannounced, unwarrented home inspections of the guns AND the ammunition counts must be within a certain percentage of what they say they own. That's freedom and trust.



Oh my word must everything about the UK resort to "incest royal family", "murdering subjects" and the war.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


I am sorry your house in the UK was burgled - it happens everywhere in the world.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh my word must everything about the UK resort to "incest royal family", "murdering subjects" and the war.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


I am sorry your house in the UK was burgled - it happens everywhere in the world.

OK, no problem at all. Not to worry, I will have you out at the gun club within 2 years and shooting with the best of them!!! :p

There is NO "gun culture" in the US. That is a term that the anti-gun, anti-freedom press made up to make law abiding, gun owning citizens look like the cause of crime. WE are NOT the cause. Criminals are. It is just as easy for a criminal in England to get whatever kind of firearm they want as it is here. An English cop assured me of that.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh my word must everything about the UK resort to "incest royal family", "murdering subjects" and the war.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


I am sorry your house in the UK was burgled - it happens everywhere in the world.

OK, no problem at all. Not to worry, I will have you out at the gun club within 2 years and shooting with the best of them!!! :p

There is NO "gun culture" in the US. That is a term that the anti-gun, anti-freedom press made up to make law abiding, gun owning citizens look like the cause of crime. WE are NOT the cause. Criminals are. It is just as easy for a criminal in England to get whatever kind of firearm they want as it is here. An English cop assured me of that.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I see exactly what I said - the firearms division of ourr police force called out when necessary.
They was increased firearms incidents ... so the firearms division was called out for a limited time only.

From the article:
Armed Response Vehicle units patrol around-the-clock in marked cars, carrying pistols and Taser stun guns.

Their duty is to deal with spontaneous incidents. Their cars carry safes containing weaponry, usually including a shotgun, a "baton round" launcher - firing "less lethal" plastic projectiles - and a carbine gun, which is similar to a rifle.
Doesn't say anything about for a limited time (except down in the "exceptions" section where it talks about that). The Metropolitan Police Service - CO19 Web site also talks about how the Armed Response Vehicles (ARV) patrol specific areas of London to ensure the fastest response. "ARV's are there to protect and respect the people of London. They are on patrol 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 52 weeks of the year."

I am not going to do a tit for tat with you on youtube video's Turtle
Awwe c'mon! I was all set to show you my tat!
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
From the article:
Doesn't say anything about for a limited time (except down in the "exceptions" section where it talks about that). The Metropolitan Police Service - CO19 Web site also talks about how the Armed Response Vehicles (ARV) patrol specific areas of London to ensure the fastest response. "ARV's are there to protect and respect the people of London. They are on patrol 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 52 weeks of the year."

Awwe c'mon! I was all set to show you my tat!


From the article ...

Officers must undergo special training in handling a variety of weapons before being given authorisation to join firearms teams


Their duty is to deal with spontaneous incidents
(they don't just sit in a building drinking tea waiting for a phone call - they have their normal duties)

Nope ... no tat for you - early night with no supper for you today,

:rolleyes:
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
(US police gun deaths are on the rise, however. A total of 61 on-duty officers in the United States died after being shot in 2010, up from 49 in 2009, and as of August 12, 2011, already 49 police officers have been shot and killed while on duty, putting 2011 on track for one of the worst years for lawmen killed in gun-related deaths in a decade.)
Well, you treat people like dogs, eventually they'll start biting back.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Their duty is to deal with spontaneous incidents
(they don't just sit in a building drinking tea waiting for a phone call - they have their normal duties)
Correct. They patrol in those ARVs 24/7 in three-man teams, the driver, the radio guy, and the navigator, and while they are inside those marked vehicles patrolling, those are their normal duties. Any duties performed outside of an armed response is then, therefor, performed by armed police officers on the streets of London, which is what I said in the first place when I said, "There are now more and more armed police on the streets in England, probably more now than at any time in history, but it's still the exception rather than the rule."

<shrug>
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Correct. They patrol in those ARVs 24/7 in three-man teams, the driver, the radio guy, and the navigator, and while they are inside those marked vehicles patrolling, those are their normal duties. Any duties performed outside of an armed response is then, therefor, performed by armed police officers on the streets of London, which is what I said in the first place when I said, "There are now more and more armed police on the streets in England, probably more now than at any time in history, but it's still the exception rather than the rule."

<shrug>


LOL at least I didn't get a <snort> :D

Agreed they drive around with the firearms in the car so that they are located around the City for a quicker response to a situation, but there are not "more and more armed police on the streets of Engand" as you are trying to portray it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm trying to portray it precisely as it is: more armed police on the streets than there used to be, probably more than at any time in history, but still the exception to the rule.

I freely admit that the "probably" is a guess, but it's an educated guess. <sa-nort> :D
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
A significant portion of LEO killings in this country are due to soft liberals and the lack of severity and intensity of consequences for criminals. If laws were sufficiently harsh and consequences sufficiently severe the majority of even criminals would be too much in fear to kill anyone.

Criminals who are drunk, on drugs, or mentally ill are NOT in fear of much of anything, sigh.
The recividism rate in the US is 44% in one year, up to 67% in three. A lot of that is because ex cons have even more trouble than everyone else getting a job, they can't pass a background check to rent an apt if they do find a job, and instead of learning useful things [like coping skills, or an employable trade], all they learned was from other dumb criminals.
Great system. :(

Good people don't commit crimes because they are good people. Bad people only don't commit the crimes of which they are too much in fear of the consequences. We are far too soft on true criminals.

Just the ones who are guilty of multiple DUIs - some of whom have a LOT of convictions, and are still driving....:mad:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A significant portion of LEO killings in this country are due to soft liberals and the lack of severity and intensity of consequences for criminals. If laws were sufficiently harsh and consequences sufficiently severe the majority of even criminals would be too much in fear to kill anyone.

Criminals who are drunk, on drugs, or mentally ill are NOT in fear of much of anything, sigh.
The recividism rate in the US is 44% in one year, up to 67% in three. A lot of that is because ex cons have even more trouble than everyone else getting a job, they can't pass a background check to rent an apt if they do find a job, and instead of learning useful things [like coping skills, or an employable trade], all they learned was from other dumb criminals.
Great system. :(

Good people don't commit crimes because they are good people. Bad people only don't commit the crimes of which they are too much in fear of the consequences. We are far too soft on true criminals.

Just the ones who are guilty of multiple DUIs - some of whom have a LOT of convictions, and are still driving....:mad:

They CHOOSE the life of crime to begin with. Criminal activity is a CHOICE. Driving drunk is a CHOICE. Lucky I don't set the punishment for that. I would use what Japan does, 1 year in prison, first offense, fish heads and rice for food. Little drunk driving over there. LOTS of drunk walking. The Japanese people are BIG drinkers.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A significant portion of LEO killings in this country are due to soft liberals and the lack of severity and intensity of consequences for criminals. If laws were sufficiently harsh and consequences sufficiently severe the majority of even criminals would be too much in fear to kill anyone.

Criminals who are drunk, on drugs, or mentally ill are NOT in fear of much of anything, sigh.
The recividism rate in the US is 44% in one year, up to 67% in three. A lot of that is because ex cons have even more trouble than everyone else getting a job, they can't pass a background check to rent an apt if they do find a job, and instead of learning useful things [like coping skills, or an employable trade], all they learned was from other dumb criminals.
Great system. :(

Good people don't commit crimes because they are good people. Bad people only don't commit the crimes of which they are too much in fear of the consequences. We are far too soft on true criminals.

Just the ones who are guilty of multiple DUIs - some of whom have a LOT of convictions, and are still driving....:mad:

Those drunk, high etc. might not be in fear enough to alter their behavior but if the consequences were adequately severe they wouldn't do it twice. DUI is an area of FAR too lenient penalties and FAR too little fear.
 

Steady Eddie

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
.... I understand that, as it is hard for me to embrace your gun culture, you in turn find it hard to embrace our non-gun culture.

I do find it hard to embrace your non-gun culture.... If we did, in the 1700's, we would never have left the Brits rule. We would have nothing to fight with.

My gun culture started around age 6 or 7. My Dad, brought home a 22 rifle and a .410 shotgun. Gave them to me, said "don't shoot anyone and don't shoot yourself." I was not allowed to use them without him until I was age 12. Then, when I got home from school, I would change and go to the woods and hunt until dark.

It is a culture: You either grow up with them or without them. Those that do not grow up with them get scared when they see them. They do not understand.

Those of us that have had guns in their life for the most part, can not understand how people can tolerate not being allowed to have them. That is not Freedom.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Although I grew up around guns, and have been taught to use them safely, [and would definitely carry if it were allowed], my belief is that the right to bear arms is a critical part of the 'checks & balances' that keep any one part of government from amassing enough power to infringe upon each other, or the citizens. Not every citizen needs to be armed, but enough to make those who would deprive them of life and/or property [whether criminals or government representatives or both] think twice before committing to what could be their last mistake.
The risk of being shot by someone, stranger or family, is far preferable to the risk of being at the mercy of a repressive dictatorship.
It's all theoretical, of course.....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Although I grew up around guns, and have been taught to use them safely, [and would definitely carry if it were allowed], my belief is that the right to bear arms is a critical part of the 'checks & balances' that keep any one part of government from amassing enough power to infringe upon each other, or the citizens. Not every citizen needs to be armed, but enough to make those who would deprive them of life and/or property [whether criminals or government representatives or both] think twice before committing to what could be their last mistake.
The risk of being shot by someone, stranger or family, is far preferable to the risk of being at the mercy of a repressive dictatorship.
It's all theoretical, of course.....

Especially when one is facing the best trained, best armed military in the world....really think our little ole hand guns are going to dent a repressive government run amok?...a false sense of security when in the big picture...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Especially when one is facing the best trained, best armed military in the world....really think our little ole hand guns are going to dent a repressive government run amok?...a false sense of security when in the big picture...

The American colonists faced the best trained and armed military in their world.....:p
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Especially when one is facing the best trained, best armed military in the world....really think our little ole hand guns are going to dent a repressive government run amok?...a false sense of security when in the big picture...

The American colonists faced the best trained and armed military in their world.....:p

but the arms are in no comparison....so there:p
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It would be very hard for the government to take control of major cities with an armed populus. Even if they have tanks and larger weapons, they will be bogged down with a lot of resistance and urban combat. The best way to defeat an armed city is to lock it up air tight and starve the residents of food, water, and other things. After a few days in total darkness, hungry, cold, and mentally anguished, the people would beg for a cold drink of water, a few mre's, and a nice shower!

Look at the food supply and how the big cities operate, the government does not need to use violence to shut down and stop a rebelion.
 
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