All State Express

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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Again we are not a commodity, we are part of a service chain.

A commodity is a good for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market. Commodities are often substances that come out of the earth and maintain roughly a universal price.

A commodity is fungible, that is, equivalent no matter who produces it. Examples are petroleum, notebook paper, milk, copper, and realty.

The price of copper is universal, and fluctuates daily based on global supply and demand. Stereo systems, on the other hand, have many aspects of product differentiation, such as the brand, the user interface, the perceived quality etc. And, the more valuable a stereo is perceived to be, the more it will cost.

In contrast, one of the characteristics of a commodity good is that its price is determined as a function of its market as a whole. Well-established physical commodities have actively traded spot and derivative markets. Generally, these are basic resources and agricultural products such as iron ore, crude oil, coal, ethanol, salt, sugar, coffee beans, soybeans, aluminium, copper, rice, wheat, gold, silver, palladium, and platinum. Soft commodities are goods that are grown, while hard commodities are the ones that are extracted through mining.

There is another important class of energy commodities which includes electricity, gas, coal and oil. Electricity has the particular characteristic that it is either impossible or uneconomical to store, hence, electricity must be consumed as soon as it is produced.

Commoditization occurs as a goods or services market loses differentiation across its supply base, often by the diffusion of the intellectual capital necessary to acquire or produce it efficiently. As such, goods that formerly carried premium margins for market participants have become commodities, such as generic pharmaceuticals and silicon chips.


Think of it this way, we are not an inventories product sitting on the shelf waiting to be used and when it is used, it is no longer in that form but we are contracted where we are called upon to fulfill an obligation of the carrier, hence part of the service chain and the most important part of it.

Under Marx and some of the 20th century economist, there is supposed to be some sort of connection to a commodity and labor through a number of theories, but it doesn't seem to apply here.

The bold statement apples to our work which confirms that we are not a commodity. By using a negotiated rate between the carrier and contractor, not a market price, our services are provided based on that negotiated rate. When we consider that the market price is driven by the shipper and flat rate is used to move the freight, we are not anywhere near a commodity. Even when we have a case where percentages are used, it is still considered a negotiated rate due to the relationship between the carrier and the contractor.
 
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Zoli

Veteran Expediter
You are sadly mistaken when you say that ASE can't hold a candle to Panther and Express 1. Panther's new contract for cargo vans is 70 CPM, plus maybe a 15 cent fixed weekly surcharge. That equates to around 85 cents per mile, which is 3 cents cheaper than what ASE pays their contractors. Express 1's linehaul rate for all "major accounts" which is most of the accounts that they have is currently 70 cpm plus a 10 to 15 cent weekly fixed fuel surcharge, still pennies cheaper than what ASE pays their cargo van O/O's.

Maybe Load 1 pays a really good rate "because they have some higher paying customers" which is great, but ASE is right on par with what most companies are paying these days. The only way to get really good rates as a cargo van O/O is to get your own authroity and book your own loads. ASE is a pretty top knotch company and as the CEO stated they will still pay 88 CPM to their contractors even if they book the load at 88.5 cents per mile. So what's the problem? We are all big boys here. If a driver decides to go to work for a carrier that pays a fixed rate, that is their decision and they will have to adjust their business model accordingly.

Also, i'm sick of hearing about the old days. Te old days are long gone. I used to make over a dollar a mile at panther back in 2006. I used to get 30 CPM fuel surcharges on top of a 77 cent per mile line haul rate. Those days are long gone. You guys are a bit hypocritical also. How can you expect overpaid Ford, Chrysler, and GM workers to take a pay cut if you are also unwilling to take a pay cut? Any monkey with half a brain can drive a truck and deliver loads on time "we're not doctors and lawyers out here you know.!" We can't expect the make the mad amount of money that drivers used to make in the roberts days when the cat is out of the bag.

There are just too many companies out there and simply too many people jumping into the business these days. The lines between expedited freight and general freight have been blured. This is just a sign of the times and if it does not fit your expectations as an expediter, there is always a garbage truck that needs to be driven, a pizza that needs to be delivered, or a curier package that needs to be run across town for 7 bucks a pop!

Hey Mike, where are you getting loads for 95 cents a mile as a leased on guy? Just wondering. That seems like a pretty high rate to be paid on a consistant basis for someone who does not have their own authority.

I put a van with Panther in JUly I think the is 77 per mile. They pay between 15 cents and 25 cents FS. Make the math. But anyway, coming here and say that 85 cents total is a great rate is ....you name it. No problem paying 85 cents or 55 or 10 cents , but don't come and say that is an excellent pay. Don't insult our intelligence.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I put a van with Panther in JUly I think the is 77 per mile. They pay between 15 cents and 25 cents FS. Make the math. But anyway, coming here and say that 85 cents total is a great rate is ....you name it. No problem paying 85 cents or 55 or 10 cents , but don't come and say that is an excellent pay. Don't insult our intelligence.
The new contract is 70 CPM with Panther. You can get another 3 cents per mile if you have hazmat endorsement and also another 3 cents on top of that if the truck is a team truck. My friend left Panther for a month because of a personal problem and when he signed back on, his new contract was for 73 CPM. He is getting an extra 3 CPM because he has a hazmat endorsement on his drivers liscense. Maybe you get more because you are a fleet owner, but the new contract is at best 73 CPM plus a 15 CPM fuel surcharge. That is what .88 CPM; the same amount of money that O/O's are making in cargo vans at ASE.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Panther Expedited Services is the largest expediting company in the North America and they are paying .88 CPM. If that is not an indication of what the rates should be in the industry, I really don't know what is. Also, as I stated previously, what ASE is paying to their independent contractors is on par with what most companies are paying at this time.
 

Zoli

Veteran Expediter
Panther Expedited Services is the largest expediting company in the North America and they are paying .88 CPM. If that is not an indication of what the rates should be in the industry, I really don't know what is. Also, as I stated previously, what ASE is paying to their independent contractors is on par with what most companies are paying at this time.

OK. I will get to you at the easy way. Panther pays for the NEW trucks 70 per miles. But for the hundreds of Panther trucks they pay 77 or 82 cents per mile plus 15-25 FS. One more time make the math. To be simple, for example from 500 panther cargo van 450 has 77 cents per mile and 50 70 cents.Now...how much is the Panther rate? Man...:)
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Bottom line is most van drivers are getting somewhere between .85 and .95 on most loads. That's the all inclusive rate with surcharge included. Our vans are getting in that range as well, depending on how much we get on the load, so I don't see a huge difference in pay rates when comparing most companies.

Which brings up my oft repeated question. If one driver gets .75 a mile plus a .10 surcharge and another guy gets .85 all included, which one is making more money? It's not a trick question.
 

SAS

Expert Expediter
Blizzard, spot on my good man.

Blizzard begged it folks, anyone running for a major carrier like us or the others, and are getting anything above for a standard van rate of .95 all in, sorry I call BS. Come see me and show me the money.

Transportation has indeed become a commodity, to not think that is ridiculous thinking. Our industry is being traded on an exchange boards just like the boards used on WallStreet for bananas and oranges.

How many ASE drivers are on here complaining about not making money? How many of the competition drivers are on here complaining?
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Blizzard, spot on my good man.

Blizzard begged it folks, anyone running for a major carrier like us or the others, and are getting anything above for a standard van rate of .95 all in, sorry I call BS. Come see me and show me the money.

A van getting $1 or more on a load is not unheard of. Not too many are getting that every load leased on, but those rates do happen on occasion. Sometimes our van guys will get that if we're able to get enough on the load, which is usually loads that aren't originating in Michigan or Ohio.

The truth is that shippers are paying plenty to move van freight, but the brokered rates are still not that great and most carriers are doing a lot of brokered freight.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
I have a good friend who drive for them ,he has good miles but on a cheap rate. Their FS is very low also. Not a bad company .

I don't think .90 cpm on all loaded miles is a cheap freight rate, fsc included.The key to this is keeping the deadhead miles down to an absolute minimum, when possible.
 

bgansman

Seasoned Expediter
It's a fact of the modern business world that competition, lean methodologies and the "GE way" have resulted in reducing every material and blue- and white-collar component of the supply chain to as close to a commodity as possible.

This in no way diminishes the personal pride and responsibility that goes into doing our jobs right the first time and every time - and this in and of itself, along with consistency across units and an alignment with company goals and objectives, is indeed a key differentiator amongst the provider set.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
At E-1..I called it the "penalty box" *L*

After I refused one..I proceeded to sit in the Indy area Tues to Thursday being #1 and not a call..as I watched others coming in and going out...but there is no forced dispatch..*LOL*

I have been running my $$$ off for the past week and a half,got a load from Charleston to Laredo,Less than a day later, one from Laredo,Texas toDenton,then one from Texas to Miami,a 1,550 miler.Then 5 hours later, one from Miami to Tampa,Then,Sat late morning, one from Miami to Detroit, but it was assumed I would take it before I was called and offered it...I refused it solely because I did not think I could do it safely and arrive on time at the consignee after running as hard as I had been all week previously. There is a late fee policy in place, and I did not want to get charged for being late.It has turned into a big mess,needlessly to say, so I am dumping it in Atlanta, after I get loaded on Sun morning with it...I must say,this is the first time I actually thought of quitting because of the way this was all handled, and it bothers me to say this, because other than this, they are actually the most pleasent and professional people I have worked with.Everything is right on the money.Dispatch is awesome, everyone.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
Zoli's quote,
I have a good friend who drive for them ,he has good miles but on a cheap rate. Their FS is very low also. Not a bad company .


Who is your friend running for cheap rates and bad fuel here?
I need to talk with this person and get my arms around that one. Our vans are guaranteed their linehaul (no haggle) rate, plus a very healthy fuel surcharge.Our pay for vans is one of the strongest in the industry. $.77 per mile plus fuel; putting the total rate over .88 per mile. I would not call that cheap. Not saying you are or implying anything negative; just attempting to set the record straight and give people accurate intel. If there is doubt, I welcome anyone come by and see me personally when in the area. Our drivers and abroad. Or contact me by e-mail at [email protected]

I know I am going to sound like I am contradicting myself here, but in todays economy, high rates can kill a driver and a company.Here is a real and perfect example, and Ken, you know who I am talking about...

This person has a cargo van, same model as mine, but is leased to a different company.He gets paid $1.00 a loaded mile and even more on occasion, no q/c, etc.But he has been in service for over a month, out here, not at home. He has only run 4 loads in that time.

And I have been out here just as long,making my supposedly "cheap" .90 cpm, as others call it, but yet, I have run circles around him, to put it nicely.

I have explained to him that my way of thinking is, if you are a person who is paying the freight bill, and you see the both of us sitting in the same city as youre load is picking up in,who are you going to use first, when it comes to the almighty dollar?

My deadhead is alot lower, so the difference in pay is actually not that different,where he chases loads often.

The key I think here is to keep deadhead miles to a minimum in order to keep the total all mile pay to a maximum.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Blizzard, spot on my good man.

Blizzard begged it folks, anyone running for a major carrier like us or the others, and are getting anything above for a standard van rate of .95 all in, sorry I call BS. Come see me and show me the money.

Transportation has indeed become a commodity, to not think that is ridiculous thinking. Our industry is being traded on an exchange boards just like the boards used on WallStreet for bananas and oranges.

How many ASE drivers are on here complaining about not making money? How many of the competition drivers are on here complaining?

The reason cargo rates have dropped so much the last few years is because carriers like ASE keep dropping their rates to get freight. It's not helping the business as far as cargo vans or sprinters. The only BS that someone is pushing is you telling people that your tractor drivers can clear $1500.00 to $1800.00 a week after everything is paid for. Yea Panther has low rates for vans that why we don't have any vans with them or any carrier. Why would I want to come see you to show you the money? We have had many drivers that have came to see us about driving one of our trucks because they was not making it at your company.

Drivers and owners do talk and I have heard many things in regards to ASE that would make me never think of putting a truck on with your company. So before you say that someone is putting out BS as you put it, remember your a so called CEO coming on EO tooting your horn about ASE saying that ASE is a major carrier which is hardly the case.
 
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guido4475

Not a Member
Blizzard,

Thanks for bringing this back down to earth. $.88/mi. is pretty good stuff when you get enough miles week in/week out to make a living. We have plenty of folks through our orientation that have come from Sir Purr, etc., and the root cause of leaving is simply movement or attaining enough mileage to cover fixed expenses and what a CV driver/O-O should reasonably expect to earn for him/herself based on his/her labor-leisure preferences.

So...if you can get at, near, around what you're getting on the rate with another carrier that is going to sweat moving you, because we don't have or want to big corp mentality to take over and ruin what we think is a good balance, and you get more miles, then, voila, you've found somewhere at which you can make a decent living and possibly find "happiness".

At 2.0% GDP growth coming out of the Great Recession, we all know that the world and national economy are anything but perfect. But we are GROWING FORWARD with our valued fleet partners...

"You've got to get excited. That's how innovations happen."

- Stephen Sanger

But it is not only the rates we have to look at here, but the stipulations that some companies put on their so -called independent contractors.What I mean by this is the rule that I often hear about of how Panther limits their drivers on the amount of miles a run has to a solo driver, or the rule that a driver cannot move from one truckstop to another while waiting for a load without their clock being re-set and having to wait 5 additional hours until being considered for another load.ASE has the fewest rules that limit a drivers ability to making money, at least in a c/v,as far as I can see..But some others I feel, actually control a drivers ability to make money, therefore they are starving,,and will take every crap load that company has to offer..out of desperation to make ends meet..
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
But it is not only the rates we have to look at here, but the stipulations that some companies put on their so -called independent contractors.What I mean by this is the rule that I often hear about of how Panther limits their drivers on the amount of miles a run has to a solo driver, or the rule that a driver cannot move from one truckstop to another while waiting for a load without their clock being re-set and having to wait 5 additional hours until being considered for another load.ASE has the fewest rules that limit a drivers ability to making money, at least in a c/v,as far as I can see..But some others I feel, actually control a drivers ability to make money, therefore they are starving,,and will take every crap load that company has to offer..out of desperation to make ends meet..

No Panther, FedEx Cusstom Critical and othe big carriers follows the rules set out by DOT. So what your saying is you have to break the rules at ASE to make money?
 
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guido4475

Not a Member
Blizzard, spot on my good man.

Blizzard begged it folks, anyone running for a major carrier like us or the others, and are getting anything above for a standard van rate of .95 all in, sorry I call BS. Come see me and show me the money.

Transportation has indeed become a commodity, to not think that is ridiculous thinking. Our industry is being traded on an exchange boards just like the boards used on WallStreet for bananas and oranges.

How many ASE drivers are on here complaining about not making money? How many of the competition drivers are on here complaining?

What gets me is each and every time I go to Laredo I always hear of drivers from a few companies hauling or being offered freight out of there for .55 cpm after sitting for a week...While I come in there, and sit no more than 2 days, often only 1 day, and a few loaded before I get unloaded, for full rate..And to come into Florida, and 90% of the times here,come out with freight with absolute minimal waiting time with a full-rate load also..Yes, I have alot of faith in ASE, because they have proven themselves to me.Yes, there have been times I have sat in good areas, but I realize we all sit once in awile..I just sit back and let them do their thing, and dont bug them all the time while waiting, because,after all, the more times you call them and tie up the phones,are taking away from the time they can be spending looking for a load for you.I cannot tell you how many times I ahve been able to pay all of my bills out of one paycheck.Neverhas that happened with another carrier, and believe me, I have alot of bills present and ones from my past haunting me..remember, in 2009 me wasting most of the summer with another company? Sitting at home 4 months?those bills didnt exactly go away on their own...lol.If you havent worked for them give them a try and let them work for you.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
No Panther, FedEx Cusstom Critical and othe big carriers follows the rules set out by DOT. So what your saying is you have to break the rules at ASE to make money?

Show me in the dot rule book where a cargo van,under 10,000 gvw, is limited on any kind of mileage run.Or being made to sit in a truckstop while waiting for a load,not being able to move across the street without their "clock" starting again,requiring a 5 hour break after moving across the street.Show me.Back it up.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Show me in the dot rule book where a cargo van,under 10,000 gvw, is limited on any kind of mileage run.Or being made to sit in a truckstop while waiting for a load,not being able to move across the street without their "clock" starting again,requiring a 5 hour break after moving across the street.Show me.Back it up.

Show me where a cargo van was made to sit in a truck stop for five hours. Sounds to me like someone is telling a story to you. I'm talking more on C, D, and E units. Cargo vans can run up to 750 miles at most carriers without a break. Most carriers won't let people do over that because of safety reasons. Would you want to be on a hot load that was 1500 miles and there is no time to stop and get some sleep? I know I wouldn't, it's not safe for the driver or the public.
 
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guido4475

Not a Member
The reason cargo rates have dropped so much the last few years is because carriers like ASE keep dropping their rates to get freight. It's not helping the business as far as cargo vans or sprinters. The only BS that someone is pushing is you telling people that your tractor drivers can clear $1500.00 to $1800.00 a week after everything is paid for. Yea Panther has low rates for vans that why we don't have any vans with them or any carrier. Why would I want to come see you to show you the money? We have had many drivers that have came to see us about driving one of our trucks because they was not making it at your company.

Drivers and owners do talk and I have heard many things in regards to ASE that would make me never think of putting a truck on with your company. So before you say that someone is putting out BS as you put it, remember your a so called CEO coming on EO tooting your horn about ASE saying that ASE is a major carrier which is hardly the case.

Do you have vans on here at ASE? no.So how do you now we have dropped or keep dropping our rates? Isnt that funny,mine havent dropped once since I have been here..All of this bashing youre doing on ASE...seems to be based on what other drivers are telling you..But, have you experienced it firsthand? By being leased here?

Kind of off the subject here, about a month ago, I was heading north on 69 in Indiana, when one of youre trucks blew by me like I was standing still, with youre name on the side of it.The team in it delivered to the GM plant south of Fort Wayne.What gets me is youre talking about breaking rules,but yet,that truck was excessively speeding,with no box marker lights what so ever.Before of accusing others of breaking the rules,look at youre self first.

The main reason you may be slamming ASE is that you are a fleet owner with Panther.And want to be fed freight, right?

4 years ago I was in orientation in Seville.I used to be an o/o for them in 95,and Craig was a great guy to work for back then.I walked out after 15 minutes of the start of orientaion.Why? I caught them in 3 lies in that short period of time,and thought to myself,is this is starting in orentation, how is it going to be once I am on the road with these people? Called ?ASE and havent looked back yet.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
Show me where a cargo van was made to do that. Sounds to me like someone is telling a story to you. I'm talking more on C, D, and E units. Cargo vans can run up to 750 miles at most carriers without a break. Most carriers won't let people do over that because of safety reasons. Would you want to be on a hot load that was 1500 miles and there is no time to stop and get some sleep? I know I wouldn't, it's not safe for the driver or the public.

It's not safe for the driver or public??? Once again, after seeing how youre truck was being driven onit's way to Fort Wayne Assy,I dont see how that is evena concern of yours

Look, I am enjoying the conversation, but I have better things to do than sit here at 1:45 in the morning,like sleep.Gotta make sure I am rested up for tomarrows load.Good night...lol.
 
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