You’re going to tow my truck where?

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If you are out of hours and sitting in a truck stop parking lot, and for some reason the lot becomes unsafe and you can no longer park there, you can move the truck to a safe place. He could have sat there, let his clock run out, get unloaded, and then since there was no safe place to park after getting unloaded, take the emergency time to drive the 2.5 miles to a safe place.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
If you are out of hours and sitting in a truck stop parking lot, and for some reason the lot becomes unsafe and you can no longer park there, you can move the truck to a safe place. He could have sat there, let his clock run out, get unloaded, and then since there was no safe place to park after getting unloaded, take the emergency time to drive the 2.5 miles to a safe place.

That seems like a stretch to me. The lot did not become unsafe because the driver's clock ran out. Setting yourself up to have an "emergency" when all factors are already known hours before would not fly if the matter was looked at by an objective enforcement officer or company safety official who intended to uphold the rules.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It's a stretch, perhaps, but the lot became unsafe because he was kicked out of it after being allowed to park there until 6AM. If you can no longer park where you currently are, you've got no choice but to move to the nearest safe spot. Sure beats towing a perfectly working truck from and then to private property.
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If Fedex uses 47 mph..you should have never gotten that load... works out to 12.1 hours.....your over....they went around their own rules to get the job done...and they are anal when it comes to your advantage...duh

They dispatch at 47mph. Does that mean a driver can only log an average of 47? Gotta consider taking breaks, stopping for fuel, ect....
 

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
If you are out of hours and sitting in a truck stop parking lot, and for some reason the lot becomes unsafe and you can no longer park there, you can move the truck to a safe place. He could have sat there, let his clock run out, get unloaded, and then since there was no safe place to park after getting unloaded, take the emergency time to drive the 2.5 miles to a safe place.

This is the type of situation that many are having with EOBR's, unless you checked with someone in safety about doing this type of move then you might open yourself up to a safety violation, which could mean being terminated. And you won't get anyone from the safety department on the phone at 6:00 a.m.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
On Wednesday I was offered a load picking up in Kentucky and delivering in South Carolina, 569 total miles. I quickly accepted.

At 1414 I was sent another message, “It’s a go”. So I started my clock with a pretrip inspection.

I made the pick up on time and drove straight through. I arrived at the delivery at 0218, three minutes before the original scheduled ETA of 0221.

When I got there a security guard told me I could not deliver, come back at 0600. I can’t do that I told him as my clock runs out at 0414.

I called dispatch and after about 45 minutes it was determined I would have to go to a nearby Walmart, do a 10 hour break and return at 1345 to make the delivery. I was sent a message with a new ETA of 1345. So, off to Walmart I go.

At 0815 I get a call wanting to know my exact location as they are sending a tow truck to take me back to the receiver. It turns out they wanted the freight at 0500. So, I explained that I would not have the hours to leave their property and I cannot stay on their property. I was told that the tow truck would take me back to Walmart, but I would have to pay them for the tow back.

Another truck was dispatched to take the load from me into the shipper. When the other truck arrived it was a two man team that had apparently just started. They watched in amazement as I used my pallet jack to transfer the freight, never once bothering to help.

It’s amazing to do everything right and to still have the company try and penalize me by telling me I have to pay for the tow back. I received no detention pay or pay for loading the other truck.

Note: My following comments are not intended as a slap but rather an observation from a legal standpoint. With that said:

Assuming that after receiving the "it a go" message at 14:14 hrs you logged your PTI from 14:15-14:30 hrs and down to the drive line immediately thereafter your 14hr rule shut you down for ten hours at 04:15hrs the following morning. Since you arrive at the delivery at 02:18hrs you had 1hr 57min left available on your 14hr rule. Based on an approximate time frame from when you first spoke with the guard, then dispatch 45 minutes later, and finally drove to a nearby Walmart parking lot, I would assume you logged into the sleeper berth at approximately 03:30hrs. After a ten hour break you would have legally been able to go back on duty at 13:30hrs. Correct?

Since the receiver now wanted the freight delivered at 05:00hrs and your carrier decided to transfer the load truck to truck, I assume this transfer occurred prior to 13:30hrs when you could legally be back on duty driving or not driving. Being that you were required to leave the sleeper berth, unlock and open your box, manually transfer the load from your truck to theirs as this two person team watched would you not by law be required to log that as "on duty not driving" or did you simply hide that? If you moved it your require by law to log it! How then were you able to show the freight transfer on your log as would be required to show change of custody of the freight and show your truck empty again for legal logging purposes? How does the carrier legally match the logging of both trucks and the custody of the freight from pickup to delivery if audited by DOT?

As a fellow driver and owner of a trucking business that operates according to the laws regulating the trucking business I must ask you the following:

1. Is your carrier in the business of breaking the law and asking their contractors (drivers) to do the same for the sake of servicing their customers? (I was once leased to them)

2. Are you in the habit at your carriers request of knowingly breaking the law to service their customers?

3. Is your carrier and/or their customer(s) worth risking the consequences of breaking the law to pickup or deliver a load?

Carriers do get audited and its these very types of situations that catch both the carrier and the driver(s) with their pants down which cost in the long run. The carrier's pockets are much deeper than yours when it comes to the fines. The carrier simply replaces you with another driver when you loose your business as a result of the fines or loose your CDL. You are expendable in their eyes and if you are willing to break the law for them, they will claim you made that choice not them if caught. Again are they or any carrier/customer worth it? Especially when you fulfilled the original contract agreement?

Although I'm sure done in total innocence, you have not only incriminated yourself but also your carrier, and possibly the other team by posting this information on a public forum read by everyone including law enforcement. I would not be suprised if it was reported to DOT/DMV. By providing such detail, days and times, DOT would have it easy auditing this run.
 
Last edited:

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Since the receiver now wanted the freight delivered at 05:00hrs and your carrier decided to transfer the load truck to truck, I assume this transfer occurred prior to 13:30hrs when you could legally be back on duty driving or not driving. Being that you were required to leave the sleeper berth, unlock and open your box, manually transfer the load from your truck to theirs as this two person team watched would you not by law be required to logged that as "on duty not driving" or did you simply hide that? If you moved it your require by law to log it! How then were you able to show the freight transfer on your log as would be required to show change of custody of the freight and show your truck empty again for legal logging purposes? How does the carrier legally match the logging of both trucks and the custody of the freight from pickup to delivery if audited by DOT?

You can be on the bottom line as long as you want, you just have to take 10 before you drive again. This is something that may be changed in the next HOS revision.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
There isn't an emergency contingent for this situation and using the adverse weather condition exception is a violation of HOS.

Streak, to answer your questions, it would open a can of stink that would bring out the defenders that would make Johnny Cochran look like a church mouse.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
You can be on the bottom line as long as you want, you just have to take 10 before you drive again. This is something that may be changed in the next HOS revision.

Can you post that from the actual rule governing on duty not driving to support this claim. I seem to (as others) be reading it differently than you and will be happy to be corrected.

In rereading the ruling on this I do see that 11 hrs drive time is allowed within the 14hr period and that off duty breaks do not move the original start time of the 14 hrs. Also as I read support data regarding the 14hr rule, on duty not driving time as defined: maintenance, pti, fueling, loading, unloading etc, is taken into account for the fourteen hour regulation. thus it is my assumption that by moving the load he either was in violation of the rule or at the very least would have been forced to start his 10hr period over after logging on duty not driving prior to his 10hrs having been complete.

Example: On a recent traffic stop for a burned out light my wife was driving, I was in our sleeper on my 10hr break and had already used up my 14hr period prior to beginning my break. The officer whom was specially trained for the agency's commercial vehicle division first insisted that I come forward to the cab and present my license,health card, and logbook. I yelled up "I'm on my 10hr sleeper berth break, my 14hrs are up, and I'm not required to come forward as I'll be breaking the law." He repeated his demand and I replied with exactly the same response followed by "and you should know the law." Appearantly he his interpretation of the 14hr rule matched mine as he quickly backed off and left me alone.
 
Last edited:

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Can you post that from the actual rule governing on duty not driving to support this claim. I seem to (as others) be reading it differently than you and will be happy to be corrected.

The HOS is there to stop you from driving more than 11 hours or after 14. You can work another 15 hours hand loading or unloading a truck as on duty not driving but you have to take the required break before you hit the road.

D. 14-HOUR DUTY PERIOD D-1. May a driver be on duty for more than 14 consecutive hours? Yes. A driver may remain on duty for more than 14 hours; however, the driver of a property-carrying CMV cannot drive after the 14th hour after coming on duty. Also, the additional on-duty time will be counted toward the 60/70-hour on-duty limit.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 
Last edited:

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
No laws were broken. That was the point of this thread. Everything was done by the book and it still turned into mess.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
paullud;485898 D. 14-HOUR DUTY PERIOD D-1. May a driver be on duty for more than 14 consecutive hours? Yes. A driver may remain on duty for more than 14 hours; however said:
If this is the case, why then would a officer of the law trained in the hours of service rules whom was so insistent in the beginning that I come forward to the cab area back off so quickly when I threw the HOS rules at him, plus later make a comment that had I come forward he was going to bust me for violating the 14hr rule? Ain't making this up. State of Alabama.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The rule you'd have violated would be the 10 hr consecutive sleeper berth [and even that can be done, if it's been at least 8 hrs, without losing time accumulated]. Your wife could have handed him the requested items, to avoid the problem.
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If this is the case, why then would a officer of the law trained in the hours of service rules whom was so insistent in the beginning that I come forward to the cab area back off so quickly when I threw the HOS rules at him, plus later make a comment that had I come forward he was going to bust me for violating the 14hr rule? Ain't making this up. State of Alabama.

You could have fought that and won, as you would have been violating no rule, it would have just screwed up your 10. If you look through section 395, there's no wording at all that limits bottom line time, just driving. Not that I could find...
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
If this is the case, why then would a officer of the law trained in the hours of service rules whom was so insistent in the beginning that I come forward to the cab area back off so quickly when I threw the HOS rules at him, plus later make a comment that had I come forward he was going to bust me for violating the 14hr rule? Ain't making this up. State of Alabama.

Most of them aren't familiar enough to challenge a claim you make about the HOS, he probably made the claim about busting you because it looked like you knew more than him so he was trying to regain power. I copied that directly from the FMCSA website, you can do a Google search for on duty not driving and find the link there from the FMCSA.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 
Top