UltraMaxx cargo van

[chefdennis]

Trucks have there gvw re-rated all the time... (glider kits ring a bell)the INCOMPLETE jam sticker is just that, incomplete, then when you alter the the tire and wheel pagkage or suspension packages in the case of a glider kit,they can legally change the gvw, IF you leave the tire and wheels as duallies then yes, you have not altered the truck to change the gvw...when they take the dualies off, and put on the single rear wheels, the truck has been altered and the DOT excepts that and allows the final stage manufacture to LOWER the GVW, they can not increase it..

There are suspension shops that will alter the spring packages for trucks and change the gvw, I know of 2 sprinters that have had this done...

And this is nothing new, final stage manufactures have been doing this legally for yrs...I sold cube vans when i was selling trucks that had altered GVW tags back in the 80's.....

Oh, and As Rocketman said, I was also told that the incomplete tag did not come into consideration..and removing it was fine...

 

[60MPH]

Trucks have there gvw re-rated all the time... (glider kits ring a bell)the INCOMPLETE jam sticker is just that, incomplete, then when you alter the the tire and wheel pagkage or suspension packages in the case of a glider kit,they can legally change the gvw, IF you leave the tire and wheels as duallies then yes, you have not altered the truck to change the gvw...when they take the dualies off, and put on the single rear wheels, the truck has been altered and the DOT excepts that and allows the final stage manufacture to LOWER the GVW, they can not increase it..

There are suspension shops that will alter the spring packages for trucks and change the gvw, I know of 2 sprinters that have had this done...

And this is nothing new, final stage manufactures have been doing this legally for yrs...I sold cube vans when i was selling trucks that had altered GVW tags back in the 80's.....

Oh, and As Rocketman said, I was also told that the incomplete tag did not come into consideration..and removing it was fine...

Chef as I told you when I meet you I really like the cargomaxx but after my visit to the NY. state police post in Buffalo and about 4 hours of conversations with other supervisors from various states, I was getting the same answer. I went to a dealer in Upstate NY. and took a picture of the stickers and the truck itself and showed and explained what kind of unit it was to the NY Motor carrier enforcement supervisor. They are all telling me the troopers are trained to go by the original chassis manufacturers certification sticker, whether complete or incomplete, also by law that sticker CAN NOT be removed. That is why UNICELL does not remove it nor does the dealer. Call and ask there engineering dept. they will explain why.

This was just my findings I will just buy a gm 9,900 chassis when the time comes.

I was also told that if this truck is used in interstate commerce that it needs to follow ALL of the 10k plus rules/laws, was told if I were caught driving this unit and was asked to produce a log book and did not have one I would be shut down for 34 hours and be fined. I wish I was not getting these answers I could handle it if like one 1 or 2 of the states told me this, but all 6 is to much of a risk for me.

As for glider kits those trucks are always plated heavier than 10k. This unit has the problem of going from a governed unit to a ungoverned unit. In a commercial application, that is the big rub.

Also in PA. if you are in a truck that has a incomplete or complete gvw sticker above 26,001 then you have to have a CDL. EVEN if the truck is plated for 26,000 or less. This issue was brought up when speaking to them and I was told that this is a big issue in PA. Since the truck was manufactured above 26k it does not meet the same safety guidelines as those under 26k.

Unicell told me that they are de-rating these units because they have been altered and that the max safe gvw is what is listed on there sticker, not to exceed it.

Ford wrote a good article about re-rating trucks and why it is done and why it is hard if not impossible to re-rate some of there cutaways under 10k. Has something to do with the empty weight, stopping distance and crash safety of these units, apparently the safety rating for under 10k units is alot stricter than those above it. I found the article online by googleing de-rating trucks/ford.

I am not trying to steer anyone away from these units, I just want them to do research before they choose to buy one, so they know what they could be getting into. Some people will buy these and not worry about it and will probably never get pulled over, but my luck is not that good. I have been pulled over a couple of times just for window tint. I am just minding my own business tooling down the road at 58 and bamm!! pulled over, just last week on the NY thru way, that is actually what prompted me to go to the state police post. As the officer checked my door tag and STILL asked if I had a log book and I told him NO I AM 9600 GVW. I asked why he checked my door tag and he told me because I have a class A cdl I asked what would happen with a 12,300 incomplete and a 9,900 complete, told me I would shut you down here if I did not have a logbook, med. card, markings and a few other things.

 

[chefdennis]

60MPH, I have no doubt that what you are saying you were told is what you were told, none whatsoever...but the fact that i took 2 years researching this truck along with selling cutaway trucks, cubes and van for yrs before I bought it...yes there were conflicting answers, (try calling the IRS and ask the same question of 6 different people, lol) but in the end, the local hyway patrol office was the one that told me that removing the incomplete door jam sticker would be fine...and in their words, "probably save a few headaches"...but they also reiterated that the lowering of the GVW when the truck was altered is legal and they had no issue with it..

Now, the Ford article about the safety issues is covered by the body companies in "SOME" circumstances by doing the Fed mandated crash testing of certain trucks....This issue is also covered when Van Conversion companies take Cargo Vans and turn them into Passenger Vans, they need to be re-certified as such...per Fed Regs, so yes there are issues that are taken into consideration when trucks / vans are re-certified either as to GVW or a a pasenger van...

A I said, i have no doubt about what you were told, and asyou said, i'll drive mine and i know of 6 others that are in service and hundreds of others that are in use in other industries that will continue and not worry about it...LOL, I also understand your stand point about your "luck"...

And yes people should do the research before buying anything and do what works for them....just as you have...

From 60MPH post:

Unicell told me that they are de-rating these units because they have been altered and that the max safe gvw is what is listed on there sticker, not to exceed it.

And that is exactly what they and the selling dealer told me also..they do so to cover their legal responciblity and i understand that...hauling anything that takes the GVW over the Final stage manufactures GVW rating is strictly in the operator and is the operators responcibility. but as we all know, even vans rated at 8600 lb, 9600 lb, and 9900 lbs are at times over loaded....

 

[60MPH]

Yes, you are correct there are allot out here and I have heard NO stories of anyone being hassled with one, I just know how lucky I am and I will be made the example I always look for worst case possible. Even if a officer shuts me down because he thinks like those that I have spoke to, then it will be a big problem to work thru and I honestly don't want the headache.

I even removed my tint from the windows on Friday because I am tired of being pulled over, its just another reason to stop me and ask why am I going so slow. Guess now I got to wear my seatbelt when the sun is up, that was my main reason for the tint.

If anyone wonders my tint was 35% on the driver and passenger front windows and NONE on the windshield. It is a 90.00 ticket in NY. and they "can" make you remove it on the spot if the officer sees fit Wonder what excuse they will use next time

 

[chefdennis]

I totally understand the "luck" issue..as for NY, I have heard from a few independent expediters in CV's that live in NY state, that they cut a window in both sides of the side sheet metal as to get around the "truck" related issues and increased tolls on the tollways and bridges. Once they put that window in, it is then considered a pass van....not sure f that would relate to the "tint" also...or if the info i was goven s even accurate...it was just something that "popped" into my head when you mentioned it and mentioned the state of NY...

 

[purgoose10]

The main problem I see is NY. They are getting to be what VA used to be as far as trucks. Can't you remove the original tag and keep the new one?? Why were you stopped to begin with? and what prompted you call them? They are trained to give text book answers. They don't know squat about the real world. All the Sprinters running up and down the road squatting down and obviously over loaded and no one bothers them. That's odd. About the 26k GVW well it says in the book CDL no argumant there. I guess that why I don't go to NY unless it's a really good load. California is a no no with me period. I ran a load to California across the Banning scale and it cost me $ a thousand bucks. Haven't been back since and that was in the 70's. I don't think those issues will slow the sales of Max's but that's my way of thinking.

 

[purgoose10]

Might ad something. If your going down the road in a Max and it has single wheels on the back, the cops know it's a 10k or less just by looking at it. If they want to be finniky about it they can stop you, weigh you and check the max weight that your tires are rated at. You can be fined for overweight on that issue. Theres always a way for them to fine you. Also your wheels are rated and stamped with a gvw wht, they got you if they want you.

 

[60MPH]

Can't you remove the original tag and keep the new one?? Why were you stopped to begin with? and what prompted you call them?

As for the tag I was told NO by many different sources.

I am just being stopped for tint, they are aloud to pull you over for just that in NY. PA. and VA. Driving safely doing 58-60 in the right lane.

What prompted calling them was because I have been interested in buying one since I saw Chefs about 4 weeks ago. And knowing how some officers like to go over board I knew this might be a issue. That is why I went to the dealer to look at and take pics of the unit and started calling State police offices.

After being pulled over last Wed. on the thru way for window tint and going thru the do you have a log book gimmick and me asking him how he would handle me with a cargomaxx I decided to go to the State police post in Buffalo (the one between NY 33 and Walden Rd. on I-90) and show them the pics and get a reaction, also wanted to know how they could enforce a tint law on a OH. plated vehicle in NY. I was told for the tint law that it does not matter where you are plated and even if you are passing thru you must still abide by there laws, and they can make you remove it on the spot.

 

[60MPH]

The reason I brought up the PA. 26k thing was that I guess they used to let you operate a 33k truck and plate it at 26k and have no cdl. Now you have to have a cdl to operate said truck even tho it is plated lower.

 

[purgoose10]

The reason I brought up the PA. 26k thing was that I guess they used to let you operate a 33k truck and plate it at 26k and have no cdl. Now you have to have a cdl to operate said truck even tho it is plated lower.

That tint law will get you everytime. The windshield is illegal in all states, it's just a matter of how they feel when they want to stop you. Some guys put a strip across the top of the Windshield thinking it's okay but it's not.
Tell you a story about me and NY. In the early 70's I drove for Kimberly Clark. Drove for them till they got rid of their fleet. I picked up atrailer in Conn. My Partner and I were heading down to NYC when I got pulled. Running right lane, under the speed limit minding our own business. We had a lease trailer. Cop pulled me asked for my license and log book. Both were good. Then he asked for the registration for the trailer. Had a Mn registration and a Tn tag. Oh boy. He arrested me on suspicion of stolen trailer. Funny thing though he told my partner he could go. I said let him go with a stollen trailer?? Anyway took me to the station, hand cuffed me to the wall and left me there 8 hrs. I finaly called the company and told them they had 1 hour to get me out. The company got me out, flew me home paid me for everything, told me they would take care of it. Now what. Two years later a deputy shows up at my house with a bench warrant. Guess what from?? Good thing the Sheriff was a friend of mine.
Moral of the story. Have it right in NY or pay the consequences.

 

[Moot]

That tint law will get you everytime. The windshield is illegal in all states, it's just a matter of how they feel when they want to stop you.

That's not true. Minnesota, New Jersey and Pennsylvania are the only states that outlaw tinted windshields. All other states allow the windshield tint anywhere from 3 to 6 inches from the top, with many states using the AS-1 line as the bottom limit.

 

[purgoose10]

That's not true. Minnesota, New Jersey and Pennsylvania are the only states that outlaw tinted windshields. All other states allow the windshield tint anywhere from 3 to 6 inches from the top, with many states using the AS-1 line as the bottom limit.

Okay I stand corrected except for SC. SC no tint on windshield but SC is a friendly state. SC has a 50% strength on the State Patrol and the other 50% is looking for drugs and a donut shop.
If you get a ticket here its just your bad luck.

I might ad that their is so many speeders in this state they are trying to pass a new speed limit law of 80mph on the interstate.

 

[60MPH]

Okay I stand corrected except for SC. SC no tint on windshield but SC is a friendly state. SC has a 50% strength on the State Patrol and the other 50% is looking for drugs and a donut shop.
If you get a ticket here its just your bad luck.

I might ad that their is so many speeders in this state they are trying to pass a new speed limit law of 80mph on the interstate.

Well I guess the speeders got there way in ME. It is now 75mph from north of Bangor to Houlton on I-95. Honestly if you drive that fast up there you are asking for trouble if you hit something, like a moose

Fastest legal speed limit on I-95, I saw a sign so up there so I guess they are proud of it They might even be the fastest east of the Mississippi. It's been a long time since I been in the south has GA,AL. or MS. gone to 75 yet??

 

[Monty]

ooops ....

 

[Monty]

The company that completes an uncomplete vehicle has the RESPONSIBILITY for the final weight.

Some outfitters will not do so, because they do not wish the liability. The fact the dual wheel cab and chassis was originally rated at 12,000 pounds, or close, is not the final weight rating.

If the outfitter chooses to "de-rate" it, and remove the original tag, so be it. Perfectly legal. I think the confusion is the fact both tags are still there.

Remember all the Ryder dual wheel rentals with a gvw of "less than 10,000 pounds"? They had the outfitter alter that weight rating.

I found this ..... it may help?

Seems I was wrong about the removal of the original tag ....

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

(a) With respect to the vehicle alterations it performs, an alterer:

(1) Has a duty to determine continued conformity of the altered vehicle with applicable Federal motor vehicle safety, Bumper, and Theft Prevention standards, and

(2) Assumes legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities for certification under the Vehicle Safety Act.

(b) The vehicle manufacturer's certification label and any information labels shall remain affixed to the vehicle and the alterer shall affix to the vehicle an additional label in the manner and location specified in §567.4, in a manner that does not obscure any previously applied labels, and containing the following information:

(1) The statement: “This vehicle was altered by (individual or corporate name) in (month and year in which alterations were completed) and as altered it conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety, Bumper and Theft Prevention Standards affected by the alteration and in effect in (month, year).” The second date shall be no earlier than the date of manufacture of the certified vehicle (as specified on the certification label), and no later than the date alterations were completed.

(2) If the gross vehicle weight rating or any of the gross axle weight ratings of the vehicle as altered are different from those shown on the original certification label, the modified values shall be provided in the form specified in §567.4(g)(3) and (4).

(3) If the vehicle as altered has a different type classification from that shown on the original certification label, the type as modified shall be provided.

 

[Rocketman]

The company that completes an uncomplete vehicle has the RESPONSIBILITY for the final weight.

Some outfitters will not do so, because they do not wish the liability. The fact the dual wheel cab and chassis was originally rated at 12,000 pounds, or close, is not the final weight rating.

If the outfitter chooses to "de-rate" it, and remove the original tag, so be it. Perfectly legal. I think the confusion is the fact both tags are still there.

Remember all the Ryder dual wheel rentals with a gvw of "less than 10,000 pounds"? They had the outfitter alter that weight rating.

I found this ..... it may help?

Seems I was wrong about the removal of the original tag ....

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

Thanks! That will be something that needs to be printed off and kept in the vehicle in case you need to make your case at roadside.

I'm a litte confused about what your saying about the removal of the original tag. When I read the reg, I understand it to say that original tag has to stay on?

I'm thinking I need to print this off and go have a talk with my DOT buddy. (he's not actually my friend, but a friend of a friend).

 

[60MPH]

Thank you for posting that Notanewbie. Those that own these may want to carry this with them. Odd they want you to leave the org sticker on, just going to cause problems. I will do more research (to satisfy myself) with this regulation in hand. See if any one changes there tune.

Yes the confusion was how the officer will interpret the 2 tags on the door jam. I wonder if they shut you down for no log book if you can sue them (the state) for lost revenue due to a recovery or a tow to the customer. If said officer wrongly shuts you down!!

If I had been driving one on Wed. he said he would of shut me down for no logbook in NY. I guess I won't know until I buy one, because if I buy one I WILL be pulled over for something or other!!

 

[blizzard2014]

I am not gonna bother with a Cargo Max van as it really isn't worth my time to fool with one. The way rates have been this week, i'd be lucky to make money in a 1-ton. I won't be able to do one way trips in a Cargo Max, the pain felt at the pump would be enough to kill my business. I'f i'm going to go bigger "i'll go way bigger" and just hire me a goot looking gal to team up with me! Plus with a gal in closed quarters, she wouldn't be able to escape my advances. J/K

 

[greg334]

Sorry but the upfitter can not legally remove the original manufacturer sticker and if they do and you know about it, it is a crime in many states. The upfitter can only apply the tag with the modified weight limits, if there is a limit through the modification of the vehicle.

A number of DOT officers will not use the upfitter's tag with the 'adjusted' weight as the legal limit of the vehicle.

No matter if the dealer tells you or some desk jockey some where else mentioned it, the guy in the state vehicle with the lights on the top has the final say and it is their interpretation of their state laws that matter.

 

[Monty]

Seems I was wrong about the removal of the original tag ....

Geeze guys, I corrected myself! Tough room in here!

They can interpert it anyway they wish, (at the roadside), but they will loose in court everytime, either you ARE or ARE NOT, over 10,000 pounds. If you are not, then you are exempt from the rules.