*&^%^ Speed Limiters!!

guido4475

Not a Member
Yea, I understand where you are coming from.And with me at the age of 44,I dont have many choices either, especially with the economy.I actually had a job and was hired by a nationwide refuse co to start a couple of weeks ago at $22.00 an hour, driving a roll-off truck,but got laid off before my first day, due to cutbacks...now THATsucks.It is a good thing I bought a van as a backup plan just in case.I still have the s/t, but it's been for sale for like 4 months now, and I am practically giving it away and still cant find anyone that can get a loan to buy it.So in a van I go.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Once again Dave Panther might not have much freight in Canada but FedEx Custom Critical does and much of it is on a sealed truck.

If they have a lot of sealed Canada freight, Diane and I have not seen it. Checking the Extranet, I see that since 1/1/08, we have accepted six loads in or out of Canada and refused one. From memory, we know three of them were to provinces other than Ontario or Quebec. With the total number of loads we have hauled in that time frame, we could have given away the three Ontario and Quebec loads without missing them.

That is what makes this requirement so objectionable. For less than three loads a year we are supposed to speed-limit our truck every day and everywhere?

The new dispatch system, which many people find unacceptable (but we are OK with), applies to all loads all the time. The carrier requirement to have a truck DOT inspection twice a year, instead of the legally-required once a year, applies to all loads. The speed-limiter requirement applies, in our case, to less than three loads a year (based on history).

A lot of Canadian freight? You could not prove it by our truck. Maybe B, BR, D, DR, E and ER units see more than we do in a CR truck. I don't know. I do know that I hate the idea of speed-limiting my truck for the sake of a tiny amount of freight that we can easily live without.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
If they have a lot of sealed Canada freight, Diane and I have not seen it. Checking the Extranet, I see that since 1/1/08, we have accepted six loads in or out of Canada and refused one. From memory, we know three of them were to provinces other than Ontario or Quebec. With the total number of loads we have hauled in that time frame, we could have given away the three Ontario and Quebec loads without missing them.

That is what makes this requirement so objectionable. For less than three loads a year we are supposed to speed-limit our truck every day and everywhere?

The new dispatch system, which many people find unacceptable (but we are OK with), applies to all loads all the time. The carrier requirement to have a truck DOT inspection twice a year, instead of the legally-required once a year, applies to all loads. The speed-limiter requirement applies, in our case, to less than three loads a year (based on history).

A lot of Canadian freight? You could not prove it by our truck. Maybe B, BR, D, DR, E and ER units see more than we do in a CR truck. I don't know. I do know that I hate the idea of speed-limiting my truck for the sake of a tiny amount of freight that we can easily live without.

Then why change your truck Phil? Plead your case to Fedex...go higher...fight city hall....your logic is logical. Were only talking 2 provinces out of 10 here or 20% of Canada...
If you don't do it....force their hand....do they really want to lose a truck like yours over this? Call their bluff.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We too are looking at the numbers as Phil is. Only a total of 6 Canadian loads offered to this DR unit in all of 2008, 2 of which did not go into ON or QC. There have been more so far this year but it is NOT a large part of our business. We will keep an eye on things. IF the loads pay good enough to justify the change and justify the border crossing hassles and so on we will continue to run them, if not, we won't. That simple.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Has anyone seen what the fines are if you are caught in Ontario or Quebec without the speed limiter?

Not only have we not seen the fines, we have not seen the rules come into existence yet under which the laws will be enforced and fines imposed, and we have made a healthy effort to find them.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
With numbers like yours and Phils...it really wouldn't hurt your refusal stats.....and you'd probably pick-up another load in it's place....to offset any lose.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Not only have we not seen the fines, we have not seen the rules come into existence yet under which the laws will be enforced and fines imposed, and we have made a healthy effort to find them.

This what I've found....

The law is quite specific and refers to all vehicles operating in Ontario regardless of base plate, the law will be enforced by police forces and MTO officers. Fines for non-compliance are not yet set however, the law allows between $250 - $20,000. The Ministry of Transportation Ontario expects the fines to average approximately $390.00.

The minimum fine for not activating the speed limiter will be $250 in Ontario and $350 in Québec. The offence will also affect the safety rating of the vehicle owner or operator. In addition, the driver could be ticketed for speeding


This little item here is probably what worries most carriers...it could really effect insurance rates....

The offence will also affect the safety rating of the vehicle owner or operator.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
In my own thoughts when you lease on to a company you agree to their procedures. If you do not like their procedures then you can find a new company or if you want to write your own procedures get your own authority.

That sounds all good and well to change companies but this is a situation where a lot of people seem to be crying about it and still drive below the limited speed.

I heard some of the lamest reasons why their truck shouldn't be limited in the last few days at different places (web, radio) and you know such is life - we live and work in a regulated industry.

We got Phil with his need to drive 70 to make an appointment under load, we got Panther who can take up the slack and we got others who just feel it is an violation of their 'rights'.

Guys/gals this is a foreign country and we have no choice but to respect their laws. If you can't, don't go.

As Linda said, change if you don't like it because only one company out of thousands and only one group in that company has been told to change their trucks and I would think that they should do what they are told if they are to make the BIG bucks for being special. I understand but yet confirmed that FedEx is making this change in most of their trucks, a UNIFORMED change to simplify things for them because the divisions like Freight and Supply Chain do a bunch of cross border stuff - CC does little in comparison.

Before our researcher chimes in on his findings, the technology is made simple to make the changes quickly and but not on the fly. The software is simple, but the information needed to make the right change and the adapter is the real problem. The dealers have a stake in this because they see a money potential, they are claiming to charge more than an ECM dump to make one change - that is close to gouging.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Then why change your truck Phil? Plead your case to Fedex...go higher...fight city hall....your logic is logical. Were only talking 2 provinces out of 10 here or 20% of Canada...
If you don't do it....force their hand....do they really want to lose a truck like yours over this? Call their bluff.

All in good time. Nothing has to happen today, and even if our truck is speed-limited, we are under no obligation to take Canadian freight of any kind.

This is a developing situation on several fronts. FDCC has already backed off a bit by announcing that the speed-limiters can be turned off when trucks re-enter the U.S. Since FDCC started talking about this, speed-limiters on WG trucks have been "expected," "required," and can now be "set back."

For the six years we have been with FDCC, we have stayed because, for the kind of expediting we want to do (straight truck, big sleeper, no-forced dispatch, freedom to go out of service at will), FDCC has provided the most lucrative opportunity and a highly professional and safety-committed organization to work with.

That is not something to quickly say no to when an unacceptable requirement is imposed. Nor is it something to put at risk by "forcing their hand" when factors well out of our control continue to play out and may resolve the situation for us.

- At the carrier level, speed-limiters were first "expected" on WG trucks, then "required" and now able to be set back. Clearly, the issue is not settled.

- Widespread and intense negative feedback and non-compliance from contractors may prompt FDCC to modify the requirement in ways not previously considered.

- In the provinces, we don't even know what the rules are because they have not been completed yet. When the rules are written, we do not know if they will be enforced, and if they are not, FDCC may decide to lift ther speed-limiter rule or allow exceptions.

- FedEx recently laid off 1,000 people, some of them middle management people in the FDCC offices. FDCC office people get promoted, demoted and transferred within the company, and sometimes leave to work elsewhere. As the people mix changes, so does the weight given to or taken from different company policies.

There are several other areas where change may occur that could prompt FDCC to drop the speed-limiter requirement and find better ways to serve the provincial markets. Juat a few examples are listed above.

Changing the subject just a bit, let me point out that from FDCC's point of view, this issue is not just about Ontario and Quebec loads. Many of the FDCC customers that ship these loads are major international corporations. It is not as simple as saying FDCC won't go to Canada. Doing so would give these important customers who ship tons and tons of U.S. freight a reason to look elsewhere.

On the other hand, these same customers are already served by some very important carriers that compete directly with FDCC and do not require their contractors to speed-limit their trucks or even go to Canada at all.

As Diane and I chafe under a requirement that we hate, we do not know what will happen next but expect changes to occur. One of those changes may be in our minds and we may decide to accept and be happy with the new rule.

This dissatisfaction is a new situation for us. It is the first time in six years with FDCC that they have done something that kept us mad for more than a day.

Not knowing what will happen next, in our minds, or out in the world, but knowing that this is a developing situation that will take time to play out, we are keeping our powder dry.

If you have read my bio, you know that Diane and I are highly skilled and well equipped to "fight city call" as you call it. Part of fighting city hall is knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. There are many ways to fight a battle and win. Fully committing yourself in a yet-undeveloped situation is not one of them.

At present, we don't even know if a battle will be needed. The whole situation might be solved with affordable devices or viable services at the border that allow us to switch the speed limiter on and off at will.

It may be solved in Canada as it is in New York City, where FDCC routinely dispatches trucks but does not require them to comply with the 35-foot length limit. They can do it because NYC rarely enforces the law.

It may be solved by contractors leaving in large numbers for carriers that do not have the objectionable speed-limiter requirement, prompting FDCC to drop the requirement. FDCC has the upper hand in a slow economy but when trucks are again in demand the game will change.

It may be solved if shippers decide to seal not the trucks but shipping cases and envirotainers inside the trucks, thereby making them transferable at the border while maintaining driver protection and seal integrity.

The situation is nowhere near as simple as TeamCaffee suggests above. Diane and I have a broader and more nuanced perspective. Our view is developed and conditioned by educations in philosophy and law, decades of self-employment and great success in not only fighting city hall but being city hall too.

I could write pages and pages about possible developments, strategies and outcomes. Doing so would be a waste of time. Right now, the worst case for us is to live under the rule, at least for a while. Our truck is now speed-limiter flagged. We hate it, but the truck is flagged. We are living with it for now because we believe time is on our side and the speed-limiter requirement will not prevail.

That view may be mistaken but we will not know until time has passed. If at a later date that we find ourselves still chafing under the speed limiter "requirement" (such as it is at the moment), we will then re-assess the situation and our options. For now, we are unhappily complying with the requirement and watching the developing situation with interest.

All this for less than three loads a year to Ontario and Quebec that we would gladly let others have. Uff dah!
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
With numbers like yours and Phils...it really wouldn't hurt your refusal stats.....and you'd probably pick-up another load in it's place....to offset any lose.

You are correct. We could refuse every Canadian load ever offered and still do a good business. The problem is the carrier rule requiring WG trucks to be eligible to go into Canada, thus the requirement to activate speed limiters for two provinces, whether we ever go to Canada or not.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The minimum fine for not activating the speed limiter will be $250 in Ontario and $350 in Québec. The offence will also affect the safety rating of the vehicle owner or operator. In addition, the driver could be ticketed for speeding

This little item here is probably what worries most carriers...it could really effect insurance rates....

The offence will also affect the safety rating of the vehicle owner or operator.

That's exactly what I am talking about when I say "developing situation." Insurance companies will react, over time, to the rules and trucker behavior under them, tossing in yet another variable. Carriers will react to insurance companies as they always have.

One of the reasons U.S./Canada freight flows as easily as it does is because both nations have much in common and want to trade. Your post leads me to wonder if commonality will be undermined to the point where it makes better sense for U.S. carriers to operate not one U.S. based unit that serves both countries but two units, one each in the U.S. and Canada?
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
You are correct. We could refuse every Canadian load ever offered and still do a good business. The problem is the carrier rule requiring WG trucks to be eligible to go into Canada, thus the requirement to activate speed limiters for two provinces, whether we ever go to Canada or not.

You have 4 choices the way I see it...

1. Argue and or appeal the policy and have Ont and PQ separate from the rest of Canada.

2. Tell Fedex your truck is complaint (lie) and refuse all Canadian loads...:eek:

3. Comply..:eek:

4. Transfer out of WG.:(
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
That's exactly what I am talking about when I say "developing situation." Insurance companies will react, over time, to the rules and trucker behavior under them, tossing in yet another variable. Carriers will react to insurance companies as they always have.

One of the reasons U.S./Canada freight flows as easily as it does is because both nations have much in common and want to trade. Your post leads me to wonder if commonality will be undermined to the point where it makes better sense for U.S. carriers to operate not one U.S. based unit that serves both countries but two units, one each in the U.S. and Canada?

Some US and Canadian OTR carriers already have that...Challenger, Verspeteen are 2 Canadian ones that have US divisions.

Celadon, Schiender, US based also have a Canada division...But its so much easier for them just to swap trailers since it's the power unit involved and not the trailer....expedite is a whole different set of rules.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
You have 4 choices the way I see it...

1. Argue and or appeal the policy and have Ont and PQ separate from the rest of Canada.

2. Tell Fedex your truck is complaint (lie) and refuse all Canadian loads...:eek:

3. Comply..:eek:

4. Transfer out of WG.:(

We have many more choices than that. Our present choice is stated above.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We are going to comply, for now. I do resent the entire idea. I am just not that stupid!! I know how to read a speed limit sign and drive within that limit. Dang gone socialists, they always assume the stupidity of others and then pass laws to protect them from them selfs. :(
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I am trying to figure out how one's bio has anything to do with this subject? Isn't that a bit much to interject a bio? Self-promotion maybe?

This is not fighting city hall or the Ontario government but it is an issue within FedEx.

FedEx is a large company and it is like all the same large companies, their policies are not always harmonized at first because it takes time to filter through the company and time to communicate.

FedEx I would expect already has this issue covered if there is a WG revolt, they can just make other arrangements with other divisions of FedEx or dowh at they have done in the recent past, use Panther or Air Forward or some other company that can provide the same service dealing with sealed international freight that need to cross the border. They have been doing this with some Pharma loads lately.

But let's put this in perspective, WG contractors are paid rather well and they should not complain. The money they make is more than enough compensation for a little inconvenience driving a straight truck.
 

aileron

Expert Expediter
Me neither.....it would appear to be more a demand then a request....by changing a requirement to me would be equivelent to changing the contract one signed.....Making it a condition of the contract....It maybe the same as when the Feds changed the rates for cargo vans....many thought the date was firm...BUT the rates appear to change when the O/O's contract expires instead....so some are still on the old rate for now....
and this comes from some of the old timer van owners for fedex....these are the ones that pushed back against the rate drop and fedex relented and said ok....when your contractexpires it will be a condition..sign or move on....

Are you sure of that? I would like to talk to one of them that didn't sign the new contract. I was told that I either sign the new contract or I am gone. Finally I signed it, to see how it will work out. Well, it isn't working for me, so I will 'move on' shortly.

Sorry for the off topic....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Are you sure of that? I would like to talk to one of them that didn't sign the new contract. I was told that I either sign the new contract or I am gone. Finally I signed it, to see how it will work out. Well, it isn't working for me, so I will 'move on' shortly.

Sorry for the off topic....

Unless they were blowing smoke out my butt...which could be the case....

At .85 you are one of the highest paid....where ya going to go?
 

aileron

Expert Expediter
Unless they were blowing smoke out my butt...which could be the case....

At .85 you are one of the highest paid....where ya going to go?

You are right, I am one of the highest paid, but when the majority of the loads I am offered are less than 200 miles loaded and some of them have 300 and up miles deadhead, no wonder I am making 300 to 400 a week. Well, last week was the highest week I had this year. I made over $900 :eek:

I will try a smaller company, and if that doesn't work, hell, I will try Burger King. Those people make more than I make right now.
 
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