Same Sex Marriage coming your way

[Maverick]

Bingo..that is it right there....if we BOTH stay out of the gays moral code...we wouldn't be having this discussion...

I find it amazing how WE catagorize Gods work....
a child dies in the womb...tragic...it is Gods will....
a child is run over by a car again it is Gods Will.....it is God's Plan....
a Gay is born....oh crap...work of the Devil...

Remember the days when a black man couldn't pray in a white church?...All blacks were evil.....
must have been a white God...eh?
Born black?.....tsk tsk....Gods punishment...or work of the Devil.....My how we've progressed.
IF gays are wired wrong...that means God made a mistake?...and that is unacceptable....that is why you are so adament that they chose to be that way...a chose makes it their fault.

Sigh. The problem here seems to be one of accusation. I have not made any such judgement on gays. Your right, God makes that judgement, but already has....thus freeing me from any need to, so I've not.

Secondly, I can go through all of these threads and point out numerous, if not perplexing, examples of persons coming late into the game (and even throughout) accusing Christians of this belief or that.....when it's not present at all. To the point where one has to wonder who the judgmental person really is here.

A gay is not born, and it's not anything to do with God "creating" a homosexual, then denouncing that person. And just how do you think black people have, in some cases, shown more religious fervor in the bible belt, than whites do in the secular world? You think they were sold by they're own people into slavery, appeared in the South AND the North (in near equal numbers) and suddenly found this neat little black book showing them the way?

A thousand times no. Spiritual WHITE people of the south actually presented the gospel to these Americans and the movement of God has them attending churches, proper discipline of children, and I've spoke to some who would put people to outright shame on biblical matters in this forum.

And it was Christians who actually spearheaded the movement to free black people and I've spoke with older ones in the Atlanta area who confirm this with utmost certainty. They don't need your sympathy, or how God repressed them, or any other premise of the common crutch.

They stand on their own, but not in the same way as a gay person.....who stands alone because of the emptiness and lonely life brought to him/her by spiritual forces NOT of God. Either you believe in God or you don't. To believe means you must accept the alternate force at work here. You can't have one, with no acknowledgement of the other.

 

[davekc]

Sigh. The problem here seems to be one of accusation. I have not made any such judgement on gays. Your right, God makes that judgement, but already has....thus freeing me from any need to, so I've not.

Secondly, I can go through all of these threads and point out numerous, if not perplexing, examples of persons coming late into the game (and even throughout) accusing Christians of this belief or that.....when it's not present at all. To the point where one has to wonder who the judgmental person really is here.

A gay is not born, and it's not anything to do with God "creating" a homosexual, then denouncing that person. And just how do you think black people have, in some cases, shown more religious fervor in the bible belt, than whites do in the secular world? You think they were sold by they're own people into slavery, appeared in the South AND the North (in near equal numbers) and suddenly found this neat little black book showing them the way?

A thousand times no. Spiritual WHITE people of the south actually presented the gospel to these Americans and the movement of God has them attending churches, proper discipline of children, and I've spoke to some who would put people to outright shame on biblical matters in this forum.

And it was Christians who actually spearheaded the movement to free black people and I've spoke with older ones in the Atlanta area who confirm this with utmost certainty. They don't need your sympathy, or how God repressed them, or any other premise of the common crutch.

They stand on their own, but not in the same way as a gay person.....who stands alone because of the emptiness and lonely life brought to him/her by spiritual forces NOT of God. Either you believe in God or you don't. To believe means you must accept the alternate force at work here. You can't have one, with no acknowledgement of the other.

Umm??? Based on that post, I would say you are making a judgement IF someone doesn't believe as you do. What you have to acknowledge is people believe in different ways. Kinda like comparing someone who is Jewish to a Catholic. Who would be in a position other than God himself to say who is right? Same thing applies here. No different than abortion. You link it to murder yet the Bible doesn't say that at all. You imply that it does. That doesn't make it so. Same with gays. My opinion is not to judge them and let God sort it out. Are they born that way, or is it a learned behavior? People claim they know which is right, yet actually have no proof either way.
Keep in mind with religion that it is viewed many different ways or not at all. If one way was "right" we would all follow that path verses a hundred different variations.
Have to keep a open mind when no proof of anything can be provided.
Just stay true to your own heart and let God sort it out.

 

[asjssl]

Sigh. The problem here seems to be one of accusation. I have not made any such judgement on gays. Your right, God makes that judgement, but already has....thus freeing me from any need to, so I've not.

Secondly, I can go through all of these threads and point out numerous, if not perplexing, examples of persons coming late into the game (and even throughout) accusing Christians of this belief or that.....when it's not present at all. To the point where one has to wonder who the judgmental person really is here.

A gay is not born, and it's not anything to do with God "creating" a homosexual, then denouncing that person. And just how do you think black people have, in some cases, shown more religious fervor in the bible belt, than whites do in the secular world? You think they were sold by they're own people into slavery, appeared in the South AND the North (in near equal numbers) and suddenly found this neat little black book showing them the way?

A thousand times no. Spiritual WHITE people of the south actually presented the gospel to these Americans and the movement of God has them attending churches, proper discipline of children, and I've spoke to some who would put people to outright shame on biblical matters in this forum.

And it was Christians who actually spearheaded the movement to free black people and I've spoke with older ones in the Atlanta area who confirm this with utmost certainty. They don't need your sympathy, or how God repressed them, or any other premise of the common crutch.

They stand on their own, but not in the same way as a gay person.....who stands alone because of the emptiness and lonely life brought to him/her by spiritual forces NOT of God. Either you believe in God or you don't. To believe means you must accept the alternate force at work here. You can't have one, with no acknowledgement of the other.

The best is when the religious wackos try to convert the gays straight..
Answer me this...can some one convert YOU to gay?? Well there's your answer.. its not a choice....these same wackos came out this week and apologized for attempting to convert gays ..well guess what didn't happened they found out..impossible task..
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[paullud]

The best is when the religious wackos try to convert the gays straight..
Answer me this...can some one convert YOU to gay?? Well there's your answer.. its not a choice....these same wackos came out this week and apologized for attempting to convert gays ..well guess what didn't happened they found out..impossible task..
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Actually there are gays that are created through environmental, social, and psychological issues.

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[asjssl]

Actually there are gays that are created through environmental, social, and psychological issues.

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Seriously doubt it...but I guess anything is possible.. hell Sara Palin was real close to being the VP..

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[aquitted]

Blessed are those who are persecuted for rightousnous sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Math 5 v 15
Even so come quickly Lord Jesus!
sorry I cant spell that word rightousness .

 

[davekc]

Actually there are gays that are created through environmental, social, and psychological issues.

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I don't think there is any question that is a reality. If not, how does one suddenly become "gay" at say 50 years old and had previously been married. Just suddenly "found themselves"? Really?
I think that reality is about the same as ones that started that way from birth.
One of those, it just happens I guess?

 

[paullud]

Doubt it...

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There is plenty of proof that my statement is true although gays don't like to admit it because they fear admitting it happens sometimes means that they are giving ammo to the other side.

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[paullud]

I don't think there is any question that is a reality. If not, how does one suddenly become "gay" at say 50 years old and had previously been married. Just suddenly "found themselves"? Really?
I think that reality is about the same as ones that started that way from birth.
One of those, it just happens I guess?

There was the one guy that was in the news a little while ago that was straight until he had a stroke.

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[asjssl]

I don't think there is any question that is a reality. If not, how does one suddenly become "gay" at say 50 years old and had previously been married. Just suddenly "found themselves"? Really?
I think that reality is about the same as ones that started that way from birth.
One of those, it just happens I guess?

Sure..his about being shamed into keeping it a secret..get married to hide the fact there gay.. then @ 50 just can't take the lies no more ..HELLO...happens all the time...
You don't think people are born gay??



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[cheri1122]

I don't think there is any question that is a reality. If not, how does one suddenly become "gay" at say 50 years old and had previously been married. Just suddenly "found themselves"? Really?
I think that reality is about the same as ones that started that way from birth.
One of those, it just happens I guess?

No one suddenly 'becomes' gay later in life. They do, however, suddenly [or maybe not so much, but it just seems that way to everyone who isn't privy to their thoughts] decide to stop trying to convince everyone [including even themselves] that they are not gay, later in life.
The negative consequences have been so tremendous that a great many people [esp men] just can't or won't invite them by admitting to homosexuality. Rock Hudson being the famous example, but not, by a very long shot, the only one.
There is a good bit of scientific and medical evidence already that sexual attraction is not a matter of choice, and I'm sure there will be more, when scientists get around [or get funding] to keep researching. But, cripes, look how long it took for them to discover that ulcers aren't caused by diet or stress, but a microbe! And they just recently determined that the pain of fibromyalgia has a physical cause, after decades of saying it doesn't, so hang in there, it will happen, eventually. Scientists just don't like to rush things, right?
Anecdotally, every gay person I know has said they knew they were somehow 'different' from their friends, but couldn't define it until the age when prepubescent hormones kicked in. The friends began finding the opposite sex had somehow gone from being disgusting to attractive, but the gays waited in vain for it to happen to them. It reminded me of the hilarious Deirdre Flint song "The Boob Fairy Never Came For Me", except it was the normal fairy they waited for, in vain.
Even among grade school kids, 'gay' is the definitive term for anything that's awful, horrible, worse than tons of homework on Friday, even! Who in their right mind would want to be gay?

 

[Turtle]

Actually there are gays that are created through environmental, social, and psychological issues.

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Yeah there are, but those cases are the exception rather than the rule.

It's very, very, very important that "gay" mean the homosexual act itself rather than a state of being, and even more important that it be a choice rather than being born that way. Because, if it's a state of being and you're born (created) that way, there's only one place to lay the very uncomfortable blame for that.

 

[davekc]

That would only be a presumption of their thoughts. No one really knows or can presume to know. We then interject our own assumptions. And that there in lies the problem.

 

[Turtle]

However, have you noticed how people are trying to legislate morality? It can't be done, and does it not seem curious to you how that very legislation keeps turning up anti-Christian?

Yeah, 'cause Christians have never tried to legislate Christian morality.

 

[Maverick]

Umm??? Based on that post, I would say you are making a judgement IF someone doesn't believe as you do. What you have to acknowledge is people believe in different ways. Kinda like comparing someone who is Jewish to a Catholic. Who would be in a position other than God himself to say who is right? Same thing applies here. No different than abortion. You link it to murder yet the Bible doesn't say that at all. You imply that it does. That doesn't make it so. Same with gays. My opinion is not to judge them and let God sort it out. Are they born that way, or is it a learned behavior? People claim they know which is right, yet actually have no proof either way.
Keep in mind with religion that it is viewed many different ways or not at all. If one way was "right" we would all follow that path verses a hundred different variations.
Have to keep a open mind when no proof of anything can be provided.
Just stay true to your own heart and let God sort it out.

Based on that post, I would say you are making a judgement IF someone doesn't believe as you do.

Huh? What? How in the world did you come up with this one? God makes the judgment on gays as clearly stated at the very beginning of the post. Again, we have someone here who just willy nilly makes an accusation when the post clearly and precisely states quite the opposite.

Where do you people get this stuff?

"I have not made any such judgement on gays. Your right, God makes that judgement, but already has....thus freeing me from any need to, so I've not."

This is the perplexing part spoken of. Most every time a believer opens their mouth, or types a sentence.....its bigoted, judgmental, and bashing of someone. It's almost as if a predetermined thought has been injected where it doesn't belong at all. No offense Dav....but that was easily refuted.

Let's go back to what was stated in another post and clear this one up. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT TO JUDGE THOSE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. GOD DOES THAT.

We are to defend the faith within the body of believers and keep our own house clean. I think what your doing is linking us with GOD"S judgement and acting as though WE determine that. We don't!

You know, I think you folks really need to stop acting as if the Christians of this world actually set the morality code up. You have an issue with God, please take it up with him?

 

[Maverick]

Yeah, 'cause Christians have never tried to legislate Christian morality.

Your right.....the constitution was based on a certain moral code, no longer present. So, do you believe in any sort of morality? If so, what do you propose it should entail? Should it be the world according to Maverick, a reptilian form of social justice, (sorry, couldn't help it) or should we all just run around like a bunch of animals in a kingdom?

Not being smart here.....just askin?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Your right.....the constitution was based on a certain moral code, no longer present. So, do you believe in any sort of morality? If so, what do you propose it should entail? Should it be the world according to Maverick, a reptilian form of social justice, (sorry, couldn't help it) or should we all just run around like a bunch of animals in a kingdom?

Not being smart here.....just askin?

of course we believe in a moral kind of code....what does gay have to do with morality?....Do we have to babysit gays now?....or wouldn't it be better to treat them as equals and live our lives in peace and harmony....

 

[layoutshooter]

of course we believe in a moral kind of code....what does gay have to do with morality?....Do we have to babysit gays now?....or wouldn't it be better to treat them as equals and live our lives in peace and harmony....

They, just as the "woman's rights" bunch, or the "Affirmative Action" crowd , don't want to be treated as equals. They want SPECIAL recognition. The "Gay Rights" bunch are just another "in your face" crowd who choose to use the entire weight and force of the Federal Government to get their way.

Too bad, the problem was easily solved by the Feds just staying out of it. Marriage is NOT a Federal issue. It is at best a States rights issue but really belongs in the hands of the People. The current set of laws being forced through, in most cases against the will of the People, will do little to improve attitudes. and will have the same affect that many other "rights" laws have had in the past, it's holds back the very freedoms and acceptance that was being sought.

Most of what they want is already legally available to them without passing any new laws. The few things that are not, should not even exist anyway, like Social Security etc.

 

[Maverick]

They, just as the "woman's rights" bunch, or the "Affirmative Action" crowd , don't want to be treated as equals. They want SPECIAL recognition. The "Gay Rights" bunch are just another "in your face" crowd who choose to use the entire weight and force of the Federal Government to get their way.

Too bad, the problem was easily solved by the Feds just staying out of it. Marriage is NOT a Federal issue. It is at best a States rights issue but really belongs in the hands of the People. The current set of laws being forced through, in most cases against the will of the People, will do little to improve attitudes. and will have the same affect that many other "rights" laws have had in the past, it's holds back the very freedoms and acceptance that was being sought.

Most of what they want is already legally available to them without passing any new laws. The few things that are not, should not even exist anyway, like Social Security etc.

Now that, in a nutshell, is exactly what's going here. Well said.....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

They, just as the "woman's rights" bunch, or the "Affirmative Action" crowd , don't want to be treated as equals. They want SPECIAL recognition. The "Gay Rights" bunch are just another "in your face" crowd who choose to use the entire weight and force of the Federal Government to get their way.

Too bad, the problem was easily solved by the Feds just staying out of it. Marriage is NOT a Federal issue. It is at best a States rights issue but really belongs in the hands of the People. The current set of laws being forced through, in most cases against the will of the People, will do little to improve attitudes. and will have the same affect that many other "rights" laws have had in the past, it's holds back the very freedoms and acceptance that was being sought.

Most of what they want is already legally available to them without passing any new laws. The few things that are not, should not even exist anyway, like Social Security etc.

because government is involved is why it is in the mess it is in.....
like ANY group fighting a cause...to have any impact they must get in the face....or go home and shut up.....they just want to be equal with no exceptions, just equal....I am quite sure many a white guy said the blacks wanted to be special when they started the movement, when all they wanted was equal treatment under the common law....and again the government got involved and messed that up....