Do not understand me wrong, I like Panther but sometime they make us crazy . Yesterday they gave me a load 650 miles long ,pick up 140 miles away. Did the pick up and after 160 miles....STOP for transfer. I mean I understand some safety thing but in my opinion sometimes they exaggerate . And the problem is that they never say when you take the run that will be a swap. For example TriState when offer you a long run and they consider that you can't do it in time for safety reasons in the load offer put your miles from the total and the transfer location.It was no business for me going to pick up 140 miles and run just 160 loaded miles.
Panther safety exaggerate
- Thread starter Nadal
- Start date
I understand and that would upset me too, sometimes as drivers we have to know that rules that may apply. There is no way you could do 790 total miles in 11 hours. Now I don't know if your in a cargo van or C, D, or E unit. If your in a cargo van I can understand you being really mad, but a C, D, or E units should understand if your running single the load will be transfered.
Well, we know what the rules are. For a cargo van it's 900 miles or a 16 hour clock, whichever comes first. The clock starts when you satellite position changes, and doesn't reset until you've been sitting still for 5 hours. Simple.
They came up with 900 miles in 16 hours, because Safety, of all people, knows that a cargo van can drive 900 miles in 16 hours. But dispatch doesn't think so, they're hangin' tough on 47 MPH, "because that's what we have to go by". Well, no they don't. They can go by intelligence and common sense, too. But they don't, because it's either boiled from their brain during their orientation, or they are required to leave it in the car when they show up for work.
The problems arise when these simpletons begin applying the rule with no intelligence or common sense whatsoever. In the above example, the clock started when Nadal rolled to the pickup. I don't know, but let's say it took him 3 hours to get to the pickup, and then half an hour to get loaded. That leaves 12.5 hours to run the 650 mile run. That's absolutely doable in all but the weirdest circumstances, since 650 miles is 10-11 hours in a cargo van, generally speaking.
But the simpletons in dispatch are Hell bent on that 47 MPH thing. They see 650 miles at 47 MPH and go with 13.8 (14) hours to make the delivery, and thus ergo therefore you don't have enough time to make the delivery before your 16 hour clock runs out. Even though the reality is you're gonna show up a couple of hours early.
Someone made the call to pull the trigger on that swap far too early in the load, never giving Nadal a chance to make up any time versus the 47 MPH routing. The reason they did that is because the have to look at crossdock availability, and second-leg driver availability, and then match them up. Between the pickup and the delivery, the only place that had a crossdock and a driver to swap it out to was 160 miles after the pickup.
For example, you pick up a load in Elmira, NY delivering to Knoxville, TN, 715 miles. 1700 pickup, 0830 delivery the next morning, 15.5 hours to get it there. They're already looking at probably swapping it out, since all loads over 500 miles are flagged for a swap. But you had to deadhead 100 miles, 2 hours, to get to the pickup. Your 16 hour clock started at 1430, when you rolled to the pickup, so it runs out at 0630 the next morning, 2 full hours before the delivery time. You bet they're looking to swap it, because you don't have time for a 5 hour break.
On these swaps they try, if possible, to break it up half way, so that both drivers get roughly the same amount of miles. If one driver takes it 550 miles, it'll be tough to get someone else to take a 165 mile run, for a few reasons.
But, once you get past Mechanicsburg, PA there's no place to swap it out even remotely half way unless there's a driver sitting in Roanoke, and even then it'll have to be during the day because none of the crossdocks in Roanoke are open overnight. So you pick it up in Elmira and it gets swapped out 180 miles later in Mechanicsburg. The other guy takes it the remaining 535 miles, and you just deadheaded 100 miles for 180 loaded.
But the reality is, if the simpletons hadn't been so locked in to a hard and fast rule that must be applied rigidly, using the most conservatively cautious scenarios, you'd have showed up at the delivery in Knoxville 11 to 11.5 hours after the pickup, 13 hours after the start of your 16 hour clock, and 2 to 2.5 hours early. No swap or break necessary.
They don't want to take the chance of letting you go past Mechanicsburg and then something go wrong, and then have no place and no driver to swap it out to and still deliver the load on time. I get that. I can absolutely understand that. But it gets to the point of erring on the side of ridiculous, being so afraid a load might be late, that we might as well get out of the business because even after the swap the load can be late. About twice a year I get a load swapped out from me and about an hour or so later I get a call to go and recover that same load because the second leg van broke down, or once, ran out of gas. If I can swap it out, wait an hour, drive another hour, then take it the rest of the way, I could have taken it the whole way without the dog and pony show.
Panther only has A, B and C units. Knock off that purple and teal speak.
Zoli
Veteran Expediter
Well, we know what the rules are. For a cargo van it's 900 miles or a 16 hour clock, whichever comes first. The clock starts when you satellite position changes, and doesn't reset until you've been sitting still for 5 hours. Simple.
They came up with 900 miles in 16 hours, because Safety, of all people, knows that a cargo van can drive 900 miles in 16 hours. But dispatch doesn't think so, they're hangin' tough on 47 MPH, "because that's what we have to go by". Well, no they don't. They can go by intelligence and common sense, too. But they don't, because it's either boiled from their brain during their orientation, or they are required to leave it in the car when they show up for work.
The problems arise when these simpletons begin applying the rule with no intelligence or common sense whatsoever. In the above example, the clock started when Nadal rolled to the pickup. I don't know, but let's say it took him 3 hours to get to the pickup, and then half an hour to get loaded. That leaves 12.5 hours to run the 650 mile run. That's absolutely doable in all but the weirdest circumstances, since 650 miles is 10-11 hours in a cargo van, generally speaking.
But the simpletons in dispatch are Hell bent on that 47 MPH thing. They see 650 miles at 47 MPH and go with 13.8 (14) hours to make the delivery, and thus ergo therefore you don't have enough time to make the delivery before your 16 hour clock runs out. Even though the reality is you're gonna show up a couple of hours early.
Someone made the call to pull the trigger on that swap far too early in the load, never giving Nadal a chance to make up any time versus the 47 MPH routing. The reason they did that is because the have to look at crossdock availability, and second-leg driver availability, and then match them up. Between the pickup and the delivery, the only place that had a crossdock and a driver to swap it out to was 160 miles after the pickup.
For example, you pick up a load in Elmira, NY delivering to Knoxville, TN, 715 miles. 1700 pickup, 0830 delivery the next morning, 15.5 hours to get it there. They're already looking at probably swapping it out, since all loads over 500 miles are flagged for a swap. But you had to deadhead 100 miles, 2 hours, to get to the pickup. Your 16 hour clock started at 1430, when you rolled to the pickup, so it runs out at 0630 the next morning, 2 full hours before the delivery time. You bet they're looking to swap it, because you don't have time for a 5 hour break.
On these swaps they try, if possible, to break it up half way, so that both drivers get roughly the same amount of miles. If one driver takes it 550 miles, it'll be tough to get someone else to take a 165 mile run, for a few reasons.
But, once you get past Mechanicsburg, PA there's no place to swap it out even remotely half way unless there's a driver sitting in Roanoke, and even then it'll have to be during the day because none of the crossdocks in Roanoke are open overnight. So you pick it up in Elmira and it gets swapped out 180 miles later in Mechanicsburg. The other guy takes it the remaining 535 miles, and you just deadheaded 100 miles for 180 loaded.
But the reality is, if the simpletons hadn't been so locked in to a hard and fast rule that must be applied rigidly, using the most conservatively cautious scenarios, you'd have showed up at the delivery in Knoxville 11 to 11.5 hours after the pickup, 13 hours after the start of your 16 hour clock, and 2 to 2.5 hours early. No swap or break necessary.
They don't want to take the chance of letting you go past Mechanicsburg and then something go wrong, and then have no place and no driver to swap it out to and still deliver the load on time. I get that. I can absolutely understand that. But it gets to the point of erring on the side of ridiculous, being so afraid a load might be late, that we might as well get out of the business because even after the swap the load can be late. About twice a year I get a load swapped out from me and about an hour or so later I get a call to go and recover that same load because the second leg van broke down, or once, ran out of gas. If I can swap it out, wait an hour, drive another hour, then take it the rest of the way, I could have taken it the whole way without the dog and pony show.
Panther only has A, B and C units. Knock off that purple and teal speak.
You 100% right in what you saying. I have two questions. What do you think why TriState can tell you exactly in the load offer if you will transfer the load and your miles and Panther no?The second one is why for example AllState drivers can run a 1200 miles run without brake and Panther drivers no. I know is inside safety policy but still is a huge difference....
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
was the grass really greener?I agree,the swap point should have been in the offer,especially with that dead
The other big change is they don't always ask if the freight is hand transferable,back in the days before the 16hr rule when dispatch would threaten to charge you for the crossdock fee if you said ya wanted to take a couple hrs for a break even if with the 2 hrs down your showing a eta of 2 hrs ahead of the del time.Now if the freight is handtransferable and both drivers agree if you don't get the swap desk in time they wil set up the swap,send the other driver the offer,and you end up with 200 miles on that 800 mile load.If you don't need a crossdock the chances of even miles are much greater.I've even done the loading myself,the other driver has physical limitations and i have the freight so i know if i can handle it.The other driver can wait for me to come to him or her and not start there clock or dh to the pu.
fortwayne
Not a Member
when i was with Panther I would ASK if there was a transfer, if a transfer would be considered after my pickup, if there is any transfer in the discussion plans - if so then send it over the system, if not send it over the system.
if there was a plan for a tranfer I would always ask for more money - and generally I would get it....
if there was a plan for a tranfer I would always ask for more money - and generally I would get it....
Because Panther is retarded. Most carriers who do swaps can tell the driver with the load offer where and when it's going to swap. The problem is in the procedure that Panther uses.
Loads are booked and then dispatch covers the load. Dispatch does not look to see if the load needs to be swapped at that point, because they don't care, their job is to get the load covered. Most will see a 1200 mile run, for example, and know full well that it'll probably swap, but that's not their job, at that point, to figure out where or when that might be.
Safety doesn't even look at the load until it's been picked up, because until it's actually been picked up it's just a potential load to be covered. Loads greater than 500 miles are flagged in the computer to be looked at by Safety. Safety looks primarily at the 16 hour clock, and then tells the driver when they will need to take a break (because, apparently, we're too stupid to figure that out on our own), and they notify dispatch of the time of the break.
Dispatch (either the head person in charge of monitoring the load, or the person manning the swap desk) will THEN look at the load, how many miles you currently have left, and whether or not they think you can deliver the load on time either before your break needs to happen, or after you have had a 5 hour break. The determining factor as to whether they think you can make it or not is usually that 47 MPH deal. Every once in a while you'll get someone in there willing to put their job on the line for their intelligence and common sense, but it's rare. It's easier to err on the side of stupid and set up the swap.
So the reason they can't tell you with the load offer that it's gonna swap, and where and when, is because the procedures they have in place won't allow it. The determination of whether or not it's going to swap isn't even approached until after the load is picked up.
I have no idea, other than Panther had a few accidents, a couple of them really close together, like in the same week or something, where drivers had driven beyond 16 hours and got into an accident. Bad accidents. It was shortly thereafter when the 16 hour rule went into effect.
My friend at Panther says there is only one good aspect to swapping a load. That is to be the one who swaps it after the first half of the load, because the second driver is the one who has to eat up the extra deadhead miles. Every load has some miles that are shaved off of them, and the second driver has to eat them.
Ahh yes, the proverbial friend!!!! Nobody has asked Nadal tho....if he took time for a nice sit down meal AFTER he picked.....or, sumpin? He may a been tracking too slow......or, it wuz just anuther senseless call by those that did leave sense in the car before entering the building. Regardless, most dispatchers don't have a clue how those kind of decisions impact the Driver, their retention etc., etc. I'd certainly NEVER Contract to a large company again. Jes like the other nite, some Panther clownette called me a 0330, because....she THOUGHT i'd made a mistake in reporting the location of my rest time.
I'm in this business since 2003. I know how to run and I'm not a slow deiver trust me. When the dipach called me with the load offer I asked twice if I will have the load transfer. They said NO.So....
I know what you mean Col. I had to do 1200 miles in 24 hours the other day and took a 4 hour break. Right after I came off my break I got a frantic call from a young dispatcher who was freaking out because my truck was stopped for 4 hours. I didn't want to tell them I was taking a break because they would have bugged me non-stop, so I just took my break and set two alarm clocks. I continued on and a few minutes later I received another call from some other person in dispatch asking me if I was going to be able to make my original protect time. I politely told them that I was still three hours ahead of schedule and that I plan my trips like a military operation. I've never been late on a tight run in the past 4 years, but dispatchers don't understand that.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
as a solo you should have known you cant run 0ver 700 miles legally,therefore there would ba a transfer.Before I would have accepted the load,I would have found out where the transfer plaace would be,and if it wasn't where I would like it to be,I wouldn't have accepted the load.Most of the problem that your complaining about, could have been fixed before you ever left for the pick up
I agree 100% with you Steve. Like I always say" most people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan". Asking the disbatcher about the load before being made aware on the the load would have made things easier. Never ASSUME anything.
Zoli
Veteran Expediter
He asked the dispatcher and she said that he will have the whole run. He DID NOT ASSUME ANYTHING.
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chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Where is that LAW that states that a Cargo Van driver that is no hauling Haz Mat and subject to logging cannot LEGALLY drive over 700 miles?? Company policy, ok, LEGALLY? What local, county, state of fed law restricts that where the driver of a cargo van not hauling Haz Mat and subject to logging can only LEGALLY drive 700 miles?
The last 2 nights I have driven 826 miles in 17 hrs with a 4 hour nap in there and delivered 3 hrs early, and the next night 818 miles in 15.5 hours with a 2 hour nap and delivered 1.5 hours early....I didn't break any Laws that I am aware of...and if i did, I'd like to know the revised code for them...
I wasn't talking about this driver. He has been in the business long enough to know what and what not to ask. If what your saying is the facts, yes I would be seeing red and the disbatcher wouldn't like me on the other end. I would have been on the phone calling driver relations and Sean Kessler. If you tell me one thing and then lie to me then I won't ever do a load again for that agent.
If is no secret, can you please share with me how much pay Load1 per mile including Fuel?You can PM me. Thank you
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
If you are a solo with Panther driving anything, get out of there. There are other companies that treat you the driver a whole lot.better. They change the rules and make policies out of thin air.