North Carolina voters reject same-sex marriage.

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What strawman? All [modern day] opposition to homosexuals originates from and is legitimized by religion, is it not?
It is not. Some of it is, to be sure, but there are communities (groups of people in different parts of the world) which are non-religious or are religious of a faith in which the doctrine doesn't expressly forbid homosexuality, yet the same aversion and opposition (in varying degrees) to homosexuality exists. Even in places and times like ancient Rome where homosexuality was celebrated, it was hardly embraced by the populace at large. At most it was grudgingly tolerated. Then there's the question of why such a thing as homosexuality is included in religion in the first place. It's certainly not because of religion. It's because homosexuals give heterosexuals the heebie-jeebies, which is a perfectly natural and normal reaction, which was then incorporated into religion.

My own [modern day] opposition to homosexuals certainly didn't originate from religion. I fully understand and appreciate that homosexuals are quite natural in the order of things. They exist, always have, and always will. Nothing will change that. The fact that homosexuals exist within nature means that their existence is normal, inevitable in fact. But that doesn't make homosexuality normal by any stretch. It's anormal, goes against the type, against nature despite it being a natural occurrence.

There are countless aberrations within nature that are natural, occurred naturally, yet are not normal. Anomalies are the natural products of evolutionary development, and it is through developmental mechanisms that evolution works. Some go as far as being anormal, such as homosexuality, and an unending list of natural oddities that occur over and over again as part of the evolutionary process. Some anomalies occur more easily, and therefor more frequently than others, like homosexuality, two headed cows, and four leaf clovers.

I understand that some people have a real problem with the fact that homosexuality is basically a birth defect. One group (mainly homosexuals) will take except to it being called a defect, and another group (the ones who completely dismiss the fact that God could make such a blunder of a mistake, over and over again, not to mention dismissing outright the notion of evolution) will rail against it being anything other than a choice of free will. But, what is essentially a defect, is nothing more than nature experimenting with evolution. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Not exactly an argument steeped in religion, is it? :D
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I agree to a point with what you are saying. It used to be that you just got married at the church and you were married but the government found a new way to collect money by selling marriage licenses so now they have the final say. A marriage or wedding was a religious ceremony to join a man and woman together and later had government involvement. I don't see an issue with having a marriage license and civil union license which would give either couple the same benefits. It makes the distinction between the 2 and gives people what they want.

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Now that I could agree with....guess I did not state my thinking clear....N.C. went too far by banning Civil unions.....
Did you see the poll? 46% of NC voters did not even know civil unions were also part of the law....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
O'bama and every other politician will do anything for a vote. The fact of the matter about being gay, the Bible says it's an abonible sin (unforgiving).
Leviticus 18:22-30 but while your at it read the whole chapter.

Sorry my friend...I don't believe in the bible, nor religion....or false idols built in Gods name(churches).....I do however believe in a God...aka higher power...Why you ask if I don't like bibles?.....Something inside me says so, a feeling...I am not alone...hard to describe.
 

LisaLouHoo

Expert Expediter
Sorry my friend...I don't believe in the bible, nor religion....or false idols built in Gods name(churches).....I do however believe in a God...aka higher power...Why you ask if I don't like bibles?.....Something inside me says so, a feeling...I am not alone...hard to describe.

I believe organized religion is an accepted form of segregation. One sect doesn't like another, finger pointing at one another, there are those who believe they are the only ones going to Heaven, use it as an excuse to justify hatred and so on. While hiding behind God, Buddha, Allah, or whomever they believe is their Supreme Being.

Within Christianity, there are those who use the Bible, which was written in such a manner to be open to individual interpretation, to spew forth bigoted, hateful, misogynistic rhetoric which, if I remember correctly, goes against the teachings of Jesus.

I also think religion is often used as a tool to attempt to control the masses when laws don't work by instilling fear of the unknown. The adult version of Santa Claus: He knows when you've been sleeping, He knows when you're awake....

I understand religion gives some people comfort. If that is what they think they need, so be it. Just so long as they use it responsibly.

I do believe in God, I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, and I also believe I do not not need to align myself with any particular faction to affirm my beliefs.

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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Reminds me of a George Carlin quip.....wonder how many are still in purgatory for eating a hot dog on Friday?.....LOL
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Now that I could agree with....guess I did not state my thinking clear....N.C. went too far by banning Civil unions.....
Did you see the poll? 46% of NC voters did not even know civil unions were also part of the law....

The other part of the poll was that a majority of NC are fine with civil unions.

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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The other part of the poll was that a majority of NC are fine with civil unions.

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Do the math Paul.....if 46% did not realize because they actually did not know what it included....The resolution only passed by a mere 61% ...IMO the resolution as written would not have passed...
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Do the math Paul.....if 46% did not realize because they actually did not know what it included....The resolution only passed by a mere 61% ...IMO the resolution as written would not have passed...

I wouldn't be surprised to see a change come up shortly that reinstates civil unions. This law went to far and further than a lot of voters realized.

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chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
As was pointed out above somewhere, people will tell polesters what they want them to think about them, but vote their feelings...in 32 states people have defined marriage as a being between a man and a woman...the fact that civil unions was on there i believe was done with full purpose and the people knew exactly what they were voting for...and while some might not agree with it , its still up to the people of THAT STATE...as it should be....

Beyond all of this...take a look at Calif. where gay marriage is legal...you think they are really totally "equal" with hetro couples that are married???? Huh...think about it...until the IRS changes their rules and regulations, they ain't..and that ain't about to happen anytime soon...LOL, we can't even get the Fed Gov to change the IRS in a way that benefits everyone, there isn't enough gays to get them to change regulations that will benefit just them...its politics...
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
As was pointed out above somewhere, people will tell polesters what they want them to think about them, but vote their feelings...in 32 states people have defined marriage as a being between a man and a woman...the fact that civil unions was on there i believe was done with full purpose and the people knew exactly what they were voting for...and while some might not agree with it , its still up to the people of THAT STATE...as it should be....

Beyond all of this...take a look at Calif. where gay marriage is legal...you think they are really totally "equal" with hetro couples that are married???? Huh...think about it...until the IRS changes their rules and regulations, they ain't..and that ain't about to happen anytime soon...LOL, we can't even get the Fed Gov to change the IRS in a way that benefits everyone, there isn't enough gays to get them to change regulations that will benefit just them...its politics...

Chef..gay marriage was voted down in CA, but civil is allowed.....NC is the only state where civil are banned....
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Chef..gay marriage was voted down in CA, but civil is allowed.....NC is the only state where civil are banned....


No the Court of Appeals over turned the gay marriage ban (prop 8) ni CA...gay marriage is legal in CA...

and there are a few other states that gay marriage is legal, but even in those states, they are not "equal"...until there is a Fed Marriage law the IRS will NOT recognize them as a married couple...they can file jointly as a married couple in their state, but on their Fed tax return..and that isn't going to change ..The IRS isn't going to change their regs until the Fed Gov recognized gay marriage...
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Do the math Paul.....if 46% did not realize because they actually did not know what it included....The resolution only passed by a mere 61% ...IMO the resolution as written would not have passed...

NC is a very conservative state. Pretty unlikely it would have changed enough votes.
 

clcooper

Expert Expediter
can somebody tell me what does freedom of speech means freedom of religion means . so if the gays form a chuch they can call it a marriage then

marriage and civil union . are just words . just like the word donkey .

two plus two equals four or is it 2+2=4 which way is right

sounds like Hitler is in the house . gays, jews, blacks, women ,poor, rich ,north ,south lets fire up the stoves and put all we dont like in the stoves . solve all your problems .

you want your rights and nobody can take them away from you . BUT you want to take other peoples rights from them .

who cares what it is called it is to humans doing what they believe in and enjoy . as long as there is nothing special.

as far as they wanna get one over on . sounds like ever type of group of people . every one of them wanna get one over all the other groups .
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
11% ? that is not too conservative to me.....now if it passed by 75% or more then yeah....


LOL, what!?!? In politics, getting 61% of the vote and winning by over 20 percentage points is a danm big landslide..as to the 46% that didn't know that they were voting to ban civil unions, oh well, it is what it is...a landslide...
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
LOL, what!?!? In politics, getting 61% of the vote and winning by over 20 percentage points is a danm big landslide..as to the 46% that didn't know that they were voting to ban civil unions, oh well, it is what it is...a landslide...
Of course, it's a landslide. But something inside OVM says it isn't so....a feeling. Hard to describe.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
LOL, everyone from barry himself to every democrat to all the political pundits said barry won in a landslide victory pver McCain....

Obama: 66,700,243 votes – 52.7%
McCain: 58,227,836 – 46.0%
Others: 1, 450,000 (give or take) – about 1.3%

The % shown is the % of the total vote each got....wow, he won by 6.7% of the vote...in a landslide victory.....:rolleyes:

Oh and many now didn't realize what they voted for also.....
 
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