Yeah, I am. I've seen loads that Panther drivers have turned down be outsourced on the bid board for 4 or 5 times the contractor rate.
Confounded by Big Cat Giveaways
- Thread starter aristotle
- Start date
Yeah, I am. I've seen loads that Panther drivers have turned down be outsourced on the bid board for 4 or 5 times the contractor rate.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I've heard of that happening too... maybe once in a blue moon. Most of the time, however, the steak you're claiming they serve ends up being a White Castles, because of ppl bidding low, as if they're on an LTL board. Remember, Panther is competing with companies like Stew and RJR on NLM loads; which we all know is already cheap freight. That freight ends up, mostly, going for less than what their contractors get. How anyone could survive on that is beyond me. But regular truckload is doing the same thing. Big trucks are STILL hauling loads for $1.50 or less! You'd think they'd be out of biz by now.
The NLM stuff that Panther ends up bidding out is one thing, I don't think it happens all that frequently. They aren't likely to bid cheap on already cheap freight if there is any chance that they can't get it covered cheaply. But for Panther's customers outside of NLM, that's another story. When someone calls Panther, they'll say yes to getting it covered, and they'll get it covered no matter how they have to do it. We have some customers that give us all kinds of freight, from long hauls to 9 mile minis, and Panther will say yes to all of them.
For example, I was once in Kansas City and an LTL customer called in a load that was, IIRC, about 20 loaded miles with about 20 deadhead miles. It was a cargo van $50 mini, and the FSC made it pay out at about $75. I wasn't offered the load because I was already dispatched on a load that didn't pick up for 4 or 5 hours. The load was offered to the Panther van sitting next to me, the only other Panther van within about 200 miles. He turned it down, asked for more money. They said they'd get back to him, and promptly put the load out on the Panther bid board.
In short order the load was dispatched to 3rd party van in the area (sitting on the other side of the van who turned it down) with their own authority who had bid on the load. I stood there and watched them bid on it and get the bid. They ran the load for $275. Did Panther lose money on that load? I dunno. I doubt it, tho.
As for big trucks running $1.50 a mile, I don't know how they're staying in business. My brother pulls a flat bed, mostly steel and lumber, but he ain't all that picky as long as it pays. Yesterday he was offered a load of onions from Florida to Denver for $1500. He laughed at the shipper. They said, "But, fuel is comming down!". He laughed harder. 1700 miles for $1500. Yeah, right.
I don't know if they ever got anyone to haul their onions or not.
For example, I was once in Kansas City and an LTL customer called in a load that was, IIRC, about 20 loaded miles with about 20 deadhead miles. It was a cargo van $50 mini, and the FSC made it pay out at about $75. I wasn't offered the load because I was already dispatched on a load that didn't pick up for 4 or 5 hours. The load was offered to the Panther van sitting next to me, the only other Panther van within about 200 miles. He turned it down, asked for more money. They said they'd get back to him, and promptly put the load out on the Panther bid board.
In short order the load was dispatched to 3rd party van in the area (sitting on the other side of the van who turned it down) with their own authority who had bid on the load. I stood there and watched them bid on it and get the bid. They ran the load for $275. Did Panther lose money on that load? I dunno. I doubt it, tho.
As for big trucks running $1.50 a mile, I don't know how they're staying in business. My brother pulls a flat bed, mostly steel and lumber, but he ain't all that picky as long as it pays. Yesterday he was offered a load of onions from Florida to Denver for $1500. He laughed at the shipper. They said, "But, fuel is comming down!". He laughed harder. 1700 miles for $1500. Yeah, right.
I don't know if they ever got anyone to haul their onions or not.
Ok got me on the for sale sign thingee...
BUT the council is there to represent the drivers and bring forth problem areas and be like an advisor role....somethin like that...
If the council put Panther to the test to see just how much pull the council has...Management might take a more serious tone on the matter....Council is there to represent your concerns. And if management can't be bothered and ignores the councils request...at least the council will than know that their role is only symbolic and does nothing of worth for the drivers. they are just fartin in the wind....
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So Turtle says council is useless or powerless maybe so but it's all you have.....
So whats the next move? Going to just sit and watch ...be a spectator? Or play the same game and get YOUR 1st out??
Dispatchers are human and have their bad days. But when such a failing in professionalism occurs, I know for a fact that our carrier wants to know about it. It is a serious issue if a dispatcher is offending drivers.
I don't take the issue all the way to the top (pray to God). Instead, I document it as a complaint and e-mail it to our contractor coordinator. If the dispatcher in question is receiving multiple complaints, it is a red flag that supervisors can deal with. Drivers can help other drivers by documenting and submiting legitimate complaints. Drivers can help themselves by being as professional as they expect dispatchers to be.
In five years with FedEx Custom Critical, we have only had reason to complain in writing two times that I can remember. That's pretty good considering the thousands of dispatch transactions we have had in the same period. Once, a dispatcher lied to us. The other time, a dispatcher hung up on me. Two bad events in thousands of transactions; again, that's pretty good.
i think last week was the worst i've seen load taken off of us watched 3 first out ahead in tuson but come this monday morn loads poping back to back so far 1191mi 657 mi now whats tommrow going to bring who knows good luck still say panther better than the outher expiditing co's we've worked for
And they do an excellent job under the circumstances.
"If the council put Panther to the test to see just how much pull the council has...Management might take a more serious tone on the matter...."
The Council has no pull, makes no decisions, has no power. All they can do is point out problems and offer solutions. That's it.
"Council is there to represent your concerns. And if management can't be bothered and ignores the councils request...at least the council will than know that their role is only symbolic and does nothing of worth for the drivers. they are just fartin in the wind...."
The easy retort, and one that I would usually make, is that the Council is, in fact, fartin' in the wind. We have heard nothing from the Council Members or Management of the results of the Council meeting held at Panther Driver Appreciation Day back on July 2, not a peep since November 21, 2007, in fact, nor have we had any updates on the rather long list of Action Items to be worked on (other than the board redesigns so they may very well be blastin' methane in a breeze. But, unless things have changed very recently and I don't know about it, management has never shown to be ambivalent towards the Council. Many things the Council has brought to the attention of Management has been worked on and implemented.
Of course, many things have not. And then there's the case of the board redesign, which Management failed to solicit input from the Council about, twice. I don't know that I can blame the council for the failings of Management to implement their ideas, nor for the bad implementation of good ideas.
What happened to me was many times at home on the Milan board sitting three/four days for a load. Kept getting bumped up.Actually couple of times 5/6 back. Have to call in and raise cain to get a small run.
The council puts in numerous suggestions and they are cherry picked and those few are implemented. There are numerous good suggestions that are put aside and either finally gotten to or still waiting. The council has no ability to require anything. All that can be done is to make suggestions and repetitively follow up on them in hopes that enough repetition will garner results.
After reading this thread, it probably is necessary to point out a few items. With regards to the council, they have done a great job for something of a voluntary nature. They aren't the decision makers, but convey the needs and expectations of the contractors. I beleive they are workng on a new list of items but up to July, they had I beleive 37 items, and 31 of them were addressed. Someone can correct me if I am in error with those numbers.
With regards to brokers loads, there are times when something would be at a much higher rate than a Panther driver would get. Should be something that is addressed in my opinion. Many loads will pay higher than what a Panther driver would recieve because these are loads going to independent operators. That is a industry practice for the most part.
The reality. Loads at twice the rate could happen, but that would be a rare occurance regardless of carriers. Many more go to the budget carriers at less than what a Panther driver would do them for when they enter a bid process.
Most of the loads are a result of no coverage or loads that are rejected by the drivers.
Since humans enter the information, there is always the chance for error.
Just a little bit bigger picture than what has been posted up to this point.
With regards to brokers loads, there are times when something would be at a much higher rate than a Panther driver would get. Should be something that is addressed in my opinion. Many loads will pay higher than what a Panther driver would recieve because these are loads going to independent operators. That is a industry practice for the most part.
The reality. Loads at twice the rate could happen, but that would be a rare occurance regardless of carriers. Many more go to the budget carriers at less than what a Panther driver would do them for when they enter a bid process.
Most of the loads are a result of no coverage or loads that are rejected by the drivers.
Since humans enter the information, there is always the chance for error.
Just a little bit bigger picture than what has been posted up to this point.
are12
Expert Expediter
Being bumped, 4 plus spots, by 1st outs coming in is nothing new - had that happen a few times.
You can call dispatch all you want but most dispatcher's will not tell you the truth on why the 1st outs were given and they will rarely change your position back to 1st but it can happen.
What you need to find out is, who is getting the 1st outs - do they drive for fleet owners? Are they the drivers that go and party with some of the dispatchers on weekends? Or are they the ones that have their nose stuck so far up Panther that their noses are brown?
Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Panther since this goes on in each company (no matter how hard some try to deny it). We made money with Panther in the 4 years we were with them but we got tired of just being a truck number.
It is amazing how much they changed in 4 years and it has not all been for the best.
You can call dispatch all you want but most dispatcher's will not tell you the truth on why the 1st outs were given and they will rarely change your position back to 1st but it can happen.
What you need to find out is, who is getting the 1st outs - do they drive for fleet owners? Are they the drivers that go and party with some of the dispatchers on weekends? Or are they the ones that have their nose stuck so far up Panther that their noses are brown?
Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Panther since this goes on in each company
(no matter how hard some try to deny it). We made money with Panther in the 4 years we were with them but we got tired of just being a truck number. It is amazing how much they changed in 4 years and it has not all been for the best.
are12... based on your experience w/Panther, do you believe fleet owners have an unfair advantage or influence with dispatch protocol? How could this be substantiated? BTW, we aren't allowed to see who gets the First-Outs. When I call dispatch, they will only confirm my own board position. They adamantly refuse to identify any other truck's board position or truck number. We need some "sunshine laws" or open transparency to rectify this. Only in my dreams will it happen.
are12
Expert Expediter
Based on our experience with Panther - yes, we did feel the fleet owner's have an unfair advantage over the single truck owner, more so, after they changed the boards around. Then you have a fleet owner that is at Panther, constantly, sucking up to everyone they can. How can you compete with that?? We can't!
Can we substantiate it? Of course not, no one would admit to something like that going on. But think about it, you get disgusted and say you are going to pull your truck and what happens? Not a whole lot of anything. But you get a fleet owner threatening to pull 20+ trucks - now that makes a difference! But that is the way big business goes.
And, of course, you are not allowed to see the 1st outs, that would allow you to see if they are fleet owner trucks or a certain few that always get the 1st outs.
Don't get me wrong. most of the time, we liked working for Panther and we made money while we were with them but we felt we were being lost in the shuffle. We felt they were becoming more of a fleet owner company and worrying less about the single o/o. So it was time to move on.
This is just our opinions and nothing more.
For what it's worth, my experience with Panther was being offered a 'first out' whenever the load was one they'd have trouble covering, due to low FS, poor location, high DH, etc. But a first out is worthless, when there are (or will be) others ahead of you. IMO, the whole concept of 'first out' is meaningless window dressing, when there are multiple first outs on the same board.
Cheri... "multiple first-outs on same board" I agree it is meaningless window dressing to the poor sap who actually accepts it only to discover after delivery he/she is the 3rd, 4th, or 5th First-Out on a particular board. What kind of masquerade is this anyway? Deceiving to the guy who receives it and a morale-killing blow to those properly waiting their turn in line for load offers. It undermines the credibility of the dispatch system and the whole process is shrouded in secrecy. Full disclosure of these shenanigans would lead to a mini-revolution of sorts. Good grief... is this a fixed game?
Do fleet owners get special treatment yes thier are a few and to prove it would be hard
as far as first outs there needs to be set rules / and it would be nice if we could see what trucks are infront of us and thier statis as to what special equipment they have so you could decide what to do stay or move on as far as calling dispach your wasting your time
calling team leader thats up to who your talking to but i still say panthers system is better than a few outher companyys out there
as far as first outs there needs to be set rules / and it would be nice if we could see what trucks are infront of us and thier statis as to what special equipment they have so you could decide what to do stay or move on as far as calling dispach your wasting your time
calling team leader thats up to who your talking to but i still say panthers system is better than a few outher companyys out there
My theory is that it's like the casinos in Vegas: when you see what kind of money they put into their part (buildings, personnel, etc), you know they're not losing money - but that doesn't mean you can't win some, yourself. The smart money knows when to gamble, and when to walk away.
Mostly, my money is pretty dumb, (though not dumb enough to play in Vegas, lol)
Mostly, my money is pretty dumb, (though not dumb enough to play in Vegas, lol)
I hate to burst your bubble there Dave, but, double or tripple + is more common than you know. Conversely, i've had numerous instances where your carrier under bid me. A good omen that they are actually looking out for you schmoes. Now, all you have to do is realize that fact, and capitalize on it, steada sitting. Finally, y'all gotta get more lean and flexible to survive (for the most part, non truck related). You need to learn how to compete. Not just look for the roast goose. If'n ya can't. Bye, bye.