AMonger
Veteran Expediter
I clicked reply and that's how it came out.
Zimmerman Not Guilty
- Thread starter paullud
- Start date
I clicked reply and that's how it came out.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
It is because of the way it was split up in Cheri's post.
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Cheri is guilty plain and simple, she was the aggressor.
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paullud
Veteran Expediter
Much of what you typed was wrong but you are refusing to acknowledge it.
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Brisco
Expert Expediter
Precisely..................
She's like a bad bad episode of Nancy Grace........along with a little bit of Piers Morgan thrown in.............Absolutely Ridiculous. (I'm still Laughing at the "Bumps On the Nose caused by the recoil of the Gun" belief from another thread weeks ago
)Remember during the Rutgers / Raped Hooker event Nancy Grace got stuck on a few years back. NG said that Crystal Mangum was "SO TERRIFIED WITH FEAR" while the Police were questioning her that she could not get out of the car and had a TERRIFIED / PETRIFIED Death Grip on the door handle of the Car so tightly that she couldn't even open her eyes even with the Police Officer standing there.....When in Fact she was Stone Cold STONED / HIGH / DRUNK that night that she had NO Idea what was going on around her.
Well..........Same thing is happening here in this Case. George Zimmerman is NOT GUILTY............and INNOCENT in this whole matter. I Frankly am tired of the Whole Ilk of it all from ALL the News Channels.........Even FOX..........and Think EVERYBODY should get on with their lives................
All of what I typed was taken from here:
Documents Given to the Defendant_R (1)
Go ahead: find the proof that anything I typed was not supported by fact, or that I claimed it was, when it wasn't.
I speculated about Zimmerman grabbing Martin's arm, yes, because that's the only scenario that seems plausible to me, after reading every one of the linked docs.
Did you read any of them - or just the media versions of what happened?
paullud
Veteran Expediter
No problem and I will also mention the irrelevant parts as well since that is a majority of it as I mentioned before.
That is an awfully big jump to make and is CLEARLY not supported by facts or evidence.
Well since my belief of what happened, unlike yours, follows the evidence instead of what the media reported I'm not sure why you would think that.
He really has no reason to lie since it is not illegal to follow someone which makes the statement irrelevant and not backed up by facts or evidence.
Irrelevant when someone attacks you.
Irrelevant since Martin was not attacked and had no reason to defend himself, but it would mean Martin could be suspicious of Zimmerman.
Wrong and misleading since it was a year not 18 months but Zimmerman had also taken a few months off as well during that year. Martin had street fighting practice which was what they were involved in.
Irrelevant and has no bearing on anything other than emotion.
Zimmerman and an ex-fiancee took restraining orders out against each other. Zimmerman was accused of pushing a police officer(the assault) when he was drinking with a friend when they were underage. It was an undercover officer that Zimmerman said never identified himself, which apparently was an issue among that unit, and Zimmerman said the officer assaulted him first. Martin had a history of violence and being a thug but yet you claim he had no history, well you acknowledge then quickly dismiss it.
The charges were dropped against Zimmerman and I am not sure if they were expunged or not but it could be he thought that they were since the charge was waived which gives him the right to say he was not arrested before. As far as Martin not having an arrest record there is a very good reason why, it is called preferential treatment since he was black. The media doesn't like to acknowledge that Chief Hurley from the Miami School District PD was demoted and sent packing after it was discovered Martin should have been arrested at least twice but Hurley had officers forging reports so that he could claim a 60% reduction in arrests to prove they weren't racist.
You know what didn't change though? The fact that Zimmerman passed a lie detector test about the important questions including the confrontation and following Martin. Do you have a link for a video from the martial arts school you say proved this?
It was already established that Martin could have been alive for several minutes after the shooting giving him the chance to move or maybe Zimmerman tried piecing it together and was wrong, either way it is irrelevant.
They are only a problem because you have manufactured your own story about what happened and because you are trying to make something huge out of small things. There is evidence that he was very upset over the beating of the homeless black man and stood up to the police for him, ironically there is proof in one of the links you provided, plus there is video of him speaking out. Oh, and did I mention the lie detector test showing he was being truthful?
The jury did have a choice and it was guilty or not guilty. I'm sure if you took all the dirt you could find on someone in their late 20's and condensed it down to a few sentences you could make anyone look bad. Just look at Martin, Zimmerman had a decade on him and Martin still had more problems and came out looking worse, well you would've had to look deeper than what the media told you to see it.
I'd feel safer if criminal thugs like Martin weren't carrying illegal guns around or attacking people because they want to feel tough.
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I think you all are better at expediting then armchair lawyers..................it was a bad situation, but the bottom line-- pizz poor parenting and no male leadership in over 70 percent of black households just might be the key here..well you can look up those stats if you want to.
All this hand-ringing, and towel twisting and expressions of poor little minority crap is for the birds,,Read the family stats for yourself on black families and others.. The data is on the family unit and many minorities have no family unit. READ THE STATS
All this hand-ringing, and towel twisting and expressions of poor little minority crap is for the birds,,Read the family stats for yourself on black families and others.. The data is on the family unit and many minorities have no family unit. READ THE STATS
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Martin was a product of poor parenting and the mother is going to work very hard to make sure someone else is to blame other than her.
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The idea of "personal responsibility" is lost on FAR too many people these days.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Here is Zimmerman's reenactment of that night, nothing seems unreasonable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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No problem and I will also mention the irrelevant parts as well since that is a majority of it as I mentioned before.
That is an awfully big jump to make and is CLEARLY not supported by facts or evidence.
You find that a big jump, when RJ [on the phone with Martin] even said she'd suggested that the creepy guy following him might be a pervert?
What I consider an awfully big jump is the contention that a teenager who is there because he got suspended from school, doesn't know the neighbors at all, and is talking on the phone with a friend would suddenly go ballistic, for no apparent reason. The dialogue as reported by RJ [Martin: why you following me? Zimmerman: what are you doing around here? followed by Martin again: get off, get off!] sounds far more believable than the dialogue reported by Zimmerman [Martin: You got a problem? Zimmerman: no. followed by Martin again: "you do now, m-f'r!" then a sucker punch]
Z's version sounds artificial, like bad movie dialogue, all the way to M's last words: "you got me!"] I don't buy it.
Well since my belief of what happened, unlike yours, follows the evidence instead of what the media reported I'm not sure why you would think that.
Because you accept as facts things that Z claims, [M followed him, and attacked first] with zero evidence to back it up.
He really has no reason to lie since it is not illegal to follow someone which makes the statement irrelevant and not backed up by facts or evidence.
Z had/has very good reason to lie: prison. Self defense is one crime in which the perception of danger is critical, and Z created that perception by following M, and refusing to explain/ answer why when asked directly.
Irrelevant when someone attacks you.
Relevance goes to state of mind.
Irrelevant since Martin was not attacked and had no reason to defend himself, but it would mean Martin could be suspicious of Zimmerman.
See? The sole 'proof' that M wasn't attacked [or grabbed] first is Z's statement, which you're willing to accept as gospel. I'm not.
Wrong and misleading since it was a year not 18 months but Zimmerman had also taken a few months off as well during that year. Martin had street fighting practice which was what they were involved in.
Really?!! One text msg saying he got in a fight that lasted 3 rounds is hardly equivalent to actual formal training.
Irrelevant and has no bearing on anything other than emotion.
Is extremely relevant when the person who has the college classes in Criminal Justice is claiming self defense after killing someone who wasn't armed.
Zimmerman and an ex-fiancee took restraining orders out against each other. Zimmerman was accused of pushing a police officer(the assault) when he was drinking with a friend when they were underage. It was an undercover officer that Zimmerman said never identified himself, which apparently was an issue among that unit, and Zimmerman said the officer assaulted him first. Martin had a history of violence and being a thug but yet you claim he had no history, well you acknowledge then quickly dismiss it.
Yadda yadda yadda - Z did have a documented criminal history of assault, while M did not.
The charges were dropped against Zimmerman and I am not sure if they were expunged or not but it could be he thought that they were since the charge was waived which gives him the right to say he was not arrested before.
It could be he thought they were? Sure. That doesn't explain his not mentioning the restraining order, either. He gave the police the impression he was "squeaky clean", which is what they told M's father, but he was not being truthful and you know it.
As far as Martin not having an arrest record there is a very good reason why, it is called preferential treatment since he was black. The media doesn't like to acknowledge that Chief Hurley from the Miami School District PD was demoted and sent packing after it was discovered Martin should have been arrested at least twice but Hurley had officers forging reports so that he could claim a 60% reduction in arrests to prove they weren't racist.
Link, please. and I expect it to say specifically that M "should have been arrested twice", and why.
You know what didn't change though? The fact that Zimmerman passed a lie detector test about the important questions including the confrontation and following Martin.
You know why those tests are not admissible in court, right? Because they aren't reliable proof.
Do you have a link for a video from the martial arts school you say proved this?
No, because I can't remember the name of the school, or which article it was in. It seems to be perfectly reasonable to me, though: with someone pinning you down with their knees tucked tight against your sides, how do you get a gun out of your waistband holster? I don't think you can.
It was already established that Martin could have been alive for several minutes after the shooting giving him the chance to move or maybe Zimmerman tried piecing it together and was wrong, either way it is irrelevant.
Funny how every change in the story and impossible/unlikely claim Z made is irrelevant in your mind, considering how everything hinges upon his truthfulness.
They are only a problem because you have manufactured your own story about what happened and because you are trying to make something huge out of small things. There is evidence that he was very upset over the beating of the homeless black man and stood up to the police for him, ironically there is proof in one of the links you provided, plus there is video of him speaking out.
What 'evidence'? What 'proof'?
Oh, and did I mention the lie detector test showing he was being truthful?
The jury did have a choice and it was guilty or not guilty. I'm sure if you took all the dirt you could find on someone in their late 20's and condensed it down to a few sentences you could make anyone look bad. Just look at Martin, Zimmerman had a decade on him and Martin still had more problems and came out looking worse, well you would've had to look deeper than what the media told you to see it.
Martin looked worse? To whom? The kid was a good student with a few suspensions [which ain't real hard to do in the zero tolerance of today's schools] who liked math best and wanted to go to college and was interested in avionics. You're drawing conclusions from cellphone photos that have no context or explanation at all, except the spin you choose to place on them, but you don't really know at all.
Z was an adult college student who didn't graduate when he was scheduled to [but let the party go ahead anyhow] because he was failing classes. And if he wasn't in enough trouble, he got his wife arrested for felony perjury, thus ensuring that her nursing education is down the drain too. And you defend his honesty? Puuhhleeezze!!
I'd feel safer if criminal thugs like Martin weren't carrying illegal guns around or attacking people because they want to feel tough.
Not a criminal. Not a thug. And if we're going to assume we know what he wanted to feel, my guess is 'tough' would be pretty far down the list at that particular time & place - I'd think he just wanted to feel safe, with some unknown creepy guy following him around in the dark.
It's too bad he couldn't, and people like you continue to defend that.
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Try this link:
Miami-Dade Schools Could Have Saved Travyon Martin?s Life by Arresting Him : The Other McCain
I know nothing about this writer but it only took one search to find this.
Here is a link to the Miami Herald story where they mention him being found with stolen jewelry in his back pack.
SANFORD: Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Miami-Dade Schools Could Have Saved Travyon Martin?s Life by Arresting Him : The Other McCain
I know nothing about this writer but it only took one search to find this.
Here is a link to the Miami Herald story where they mention him being found with stolen jewelry in his back pack.
SANFORD: Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
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A relatively minor point, but that's not entirely accurate. An arrest, and a disposition of charges are two distinctly different things. The charges can be waived or dismissed, and the arrest record still exists. Even if the charges are expunged, the arrest record still exists.
In 1992 I was arrested and then a few days later the judge dismissed the case "with prejudice," which carries the same weight as a not guilty finding, and means the charges can't even be brought against me again. That's how baseless the charges were.
But the arrest record was still there. For years.
It wasn't until many moons later when I applied for a FAST card that the arrest record reared it's ugly head. To satisfy both US and Canadian border officials, I had to get a copy of the disposition of the case to show that the charges had been dismissed. At the time I did that, the court clerk suggested that if I asked the judge to expunge the arrest record, that he would. I asked, and he did. I learned then that you can just make up something about someone to get them arrested, and the arrest could follow them around forever, even if the charges were laughingly dismissed.
Expunging the arrest didn't help much with the Nanooks whenever I crossed at a border crossing that I didn't use much, especially into Provinces that I didn't go into very often. Which is why I still today carry a copy of the disposition along with the judge's order to expunge the actual arrest.
Incidentally, referring to Martin as a "thug" with a history of being a thug is prejudicial, and incorrect if you know the definition of the word, especially when you do it in the context of playing up Martin's history while at the same time playing down Zimmerman's.
For example, "Zimmerman was accused of pushing a police officer(the assault) when he was drinking with a friend when they were underage."
Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting arrest with violence" in July, 2005 when he was 21 years, 10 months old. His friend was underage, not Zimmerman. The charges were first reduced, and then waived, in exchange for him entering an alcohol education program (which, in addition to telling investigators on the night of the shooting that he'd never been arrested, he also told them that he'd never been in such a first offender program).
The suspension for possession of a baggie with 'trace residue' of marijuana is the one thing he was unquestionably guilty of - but if that makes him a thug, well, he'd have plenty of company, and at one time, it would have included me. [A lot of years ago, but still...]
The irony is that marijuana [of which there were traces found in the autopsy] is widely known for making one feel mellow, not inclined to violence. If the lab had found PCP, ['angel dust'] or some other drug, it'd be different.
Having got himself suspended, his mother packed him off to spend some time with his father [who was, incidentally, a softball coach] to get him away from the friends who introduced him to smoking dope. That's the logical responsible parenting reaction, when a teenager is maybe heading down the wrong path, and I would have done the same, in their shoes. Which, thankfully, I never was.
Incidentally: while talking to his friend on the phone, one of the last things he said before mentioning being followed was that he missed his Mom.
Some 'thug', huh?
paullud
Veteran Expediter
This proves just how unwilling you are to even consider the possibility that Zimmerman was defending himself or to objectively look at the case. There is no question that RJ is very untrustworthy, lied to police, lied during testimony, lied to friends, lied to Martin's parents, and tried to change her testimony to add negative things. You accept her version despite her being a liar and major inconsistencies but dismiss Zimmerman's account for the same reasons. What do you even mean that Zimmerman's story sounds artificial? The story is simple, specific, and not missing any big details.
I don't accept Zimmerman's story as being facts and have said so but there is evidence to back his story up, even though for some unknown reason you claim there isn't.
Again it is not illegal and irrelevant.
Well we can also take into account Martin's racism and anger at being followed, oh and the lie detector test.
Really?!! You think it was one fight. This again shows your complete lack of looking beyond what MSNBC told you to think. There were multiple fights including one were Martin fought with someone who "snitched" on him and that he was going to go after the snitch again.
Who isn't aware of self-defense laws? Who needs to go to college to hear of self-defense laws for the first time? It is irrelevant.
So you are going to just ignore things that don't fit into your idea of what happened?
I just explained the possibility of why he answered the way he did which means he did not answer correctly or lied. Why are you acting like you just came up with some earth shattering evidence that I have been denying? Maybe he was worried that admitting he was arrested before might prejudice the police, either way it is not critical to the case.
I'm not sure why you would think that possession of drug paraphernalia on school property and the highly suspicious jewelry issue wouldn't warrant an arrest and investigation. The issues of the jewelry and drugs were covered up which would certainly explain why they didn't go further.
http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/04/police-buried-trayvons-criminal-history/
http://theconservativetreehouse.com...rayvon-martin-cover-up-hurley-blows-a-gasket/
You mean exactly like eye witness and defendant testimony but when you get all 3 pointing in the same direction it suddenly seems very likely that Zimmerman is being truthful.
Simply by reaching down during the struggle, it wouldn't be all that difficult and very far from impossible. The video would certainly be very important to demonstrate how and why they reached that conclusion. The only video I saw that showed what you said was the ridiculous dummy demonstration by HLN.
Are you trying to convince me, yourself, or others that choose to ignore all the other evidence that everything hinges on Zimmerman's story? The position of Martin's body is irrelevant to the case and as I stated there is a very good reason for the arms to have moved and that is Martin was still alive. You can't have a perfectly valid reason for the arms to have moved and then just claim Zimmerman is a liar because it fits your story. What impossible or unlikely claims of Zimmerman that matter am I saying are irrelevant?
You're kidding, right? There is an e-mail to the SPD in the link you provided stating he was upset about the case not to mention the recording of him speaking at a public meeting.
Sorry, I should have prefaced my statement by saying he looked worse to those that watched more than the fake media stories.
The statement is just laughable and the fact that you have the information shows just how far from reality and facts you are. Little Trayvon loved math so much that he missed 50+ days of school and the school year wasn't even half over, just ridiculous.
The text messages are very clear and require no spin and certainly aren't out of context since the conversation is all there.
His wife got herself arrested by her own actions and not what Zimmerman did but hey why not blame him for the actions of another person one more time, at least it is only perjury this time. I am taking the evidence and his statements together that lean heavily towards him being honest and not just relying on his word. The "Puuhhleeezze" is out of place and really doesn't make sense. Instead of trying to be dramatic and pretending you just made some huge point you may want to wait to use it until you actually do.
Not a criminal. Not a thug. And if we're going to assume we know what he wanted to feel, my guess is 'tough' would be pretty far down the list at that particular time & place - I'd think he just wanted to feel safe, with some unknown creepy guy following him around in the dark.It's too bad he couldn't, and people like you continue to defend that.
He wasn't a criminal only because the police were protecting him and he wasn't able to face charges for his most recent crime of felony assault. You have a very clear lack of understanding of the mindset of people like Martin, the last thing they want to feel is scared or weak.
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Enough already. You choose to believe that Zimmerman is an honest person who told the truth, and Martin was a thug.
I choose to believe neither of those is true.
BTW: about that "Little Trayvon" remark? When I was in my senior year of high school, I probably didn't show up 50 days the entire year, and somehow managed to be a productive and law abiding citizen anyhow. Like Zimmerman, you make assumptions that might just possibly be completely unfounded.
I choose to believe neither of those is true.
BTW: about that "Little Trayvon" remark? When I was in my senior year of high school, I probably didn't show up 50 days the entire year, and somehow managed to be a productive and law abiding citizen anyhow. Like Zimmerman, you make assumptions that might just possibly be completely unfounded.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Nice, request links and proof of my claims then when you get painted into a corner with just how wrong you are you just plug your ears and close your eyes so you don't have to deal with it.
You made the claim that Trayvon was a good student. I was simply pointing out just how far off base this image of him was and any sort of basic research easily shows it is a complete and total fabrication. I never said Martin couldn't turn his life around but the facts of who he was aren't changing on what could have been, with his current activity he was more likely to end up in prison or killing someone.
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Here is some stuff in Chattanooga tn , we can solve and it never made headlines news, why,,,no money in it and hey,,,Chattanooga has just as much violence as the Zimmerman case, so why not Chattanooga on the news,,,,,,,,,,its all about the money and stiring the pot,imho.4 people shot on 
an Street in Chattanooga | timesfreepress.com
an Street in Chattanooga | timesfreepress.com
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Here is some stuff in Chattanooga tn , we can solve and it never made headlines news, why,,,no money in it and hey,,,Chattanooga has just as much violence as the Zimmerman case, so why not Chattanooga on the news,,,,,,,,,,its all about the money and stiring the pot,imho.4 people shot on
The race baiters can't make money when the suspects are black.
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