Weekly (right-wing) Wing-Nut Roundup

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
That link is "agenda driven news", granted, but the agenda is to aid churches in allocating funds
No, the agenda is to rail on churches and the claims of Republicans.

prepared by the churches themselves [through the Evangelical Credit Union], so the comment about "twisted facts and fantasy presented solely to rail on churches and conservatives" seems somewhat, shall we say, bizarre?
The creator of the "Mind Blowing Fact" used the data for individual churches, and applied that to church charities, as if the money for church charities only comes from the surplus off the books of individual churches. She's essentially making the case that, for example, Goodwill Industries is a sham and doesn't really provide any help to people because many of their retail stores lose money.

Whey would the Evangelical Church Credit Union want to rail on churches and conservatives?
I don't think they would, and they certainly did not. They simply provided the data that was bastardized and misrepresented by the author of the piece, the immutable Randa Morris, social activist extraordinaire.

I included it because it refutes the premise that churches can aid the poor [in great numbers], using their own financial information.
Three problems with that. One is, the article fails to do that. Two, you included it because you have the same agenda as Mandy. Three, the premise that churches can aid the poor not merely in just great numbers, but massive numbers, is a proven historical, and present, fact.

A premise, incidentally, that is a part of many conservative right wingers' insistence that the government reduce money spent on aiding the poor [in the US].
As hard as it is for some people to accept, it's a valid and actual verifiable premise. The budgets of American religious charities and schools and hospitals and other nonprofits all total up into the hundreds of billions, and oftentimes exceeds the welfare spending of the government. In fact, some of that money, from a Catholic charity, funded the program for and paid Obama's first community-organizer salary.

An individual church congregation's P&L Statement is wholly irrelevant to whether or not churches can take care of the poor. And religious conservatives is something that many liberals hate so passionately that they will make up facts and straw men and red herrings and fantasies to "prove" that churches can't do it.

In any case, the article wasn't something outlandish that those on the extreme political/religious right are presently involved in, it's about the outlandish claims and agenda that the left wingnuts are presently involved in.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
{Off-topic personal attack deleted - Turtle}
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
No, the agenda is to rail on churches and the claims of Republicans.

The creator of the "Mind Blowing Fact" used the data for individual churches, and applied that to church charities, as if the money for church charities only comes from the surplus off the books of individual churches. She's essentially making the case that, for example, Goodwill Industries is a sham and doesn't really provide any help to people because many of their retail stores lose money.

I don't think they would, and they certainly did not. They simply provided the data that was bastardized and misrepresented by the author of the piece, the immutable Randa Morris, social activist extraordinaire.

Three problems with that. One is, the article fails to do that. Two, you included it because you have the same agenda as Mandy. Three, the premise that churches can aid the poor not merely in just great numbers, but massive numbers, is a proven historical, and present, fact.

As hard as it is for some people to accept, it's a valid and actual verifiable premise. The budgets of American religious charities and schools and hospitals and other nonprofits all total up into the hundreds of billions, and oftentimes exceeds the welfare spending of the government. In fact, some of that money, from a Catholic charity, funded the program for and paid Obama's first community-organizer salary.

An individual church congregation's P&L Statement is wholly irrelevant to whether or not churches can take care of the poor. And religious conservatives is something that many liberals hate so passionately that they will make up facts and straw men and red herrings and fantasies to "prove" that churches can't do it.

In any case, the article wasn't something outlandish that those on the extreme political/religious right are presently involved in, it's about the outlandish claims and agenda that the left wingnuts are presently involved in.

Even if your contention that churches can take over the care & feeding of the poor [something I don't agree with] were correct, there is still the fact that church assistance comes with a price: religion. Poor people shouldn't be forced to accept that as the price of their dinner.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Good grief. The churches I'm familiar with provide temporary shelter for the homeless, wash and dry all their clothes, and give them hot meals. They're not about shoving religion down their throat in return.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Not at all how it works but typical of the far left's incorrect view.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Obama Halts Sermons during Soup Kitchen Meals

If it wasn't happening, there'd be no need for this.
I will stipulate that not all religious charity care comes with forced proselytizing, [I used to deliver Meals on Wheels from a church kitchen that didn't], but it absolutely happens. I recall reading an article about homeless people that cited it as one reason they prefer sleeping outdoors, and I've seen [or actually, heard] it with my own ears. In nursing school, we did clinical rotations at several nursing homes, one of which was religious, and they played daily mass and prayers over the loudspeaker, into every resident's room. A number of residents were 'charity' care, but they weren't necessarily Catholic. No one cared whether they wanted to hear daily prayers and mass, because those who were paying wanted to hear them, and piping directly into the rooms was the way it was done. And there was no way to turn it off, or even down.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I should have said not the norm, at least not around here and there are huge efforts and organizations in the metropolitan area. I'm sure there are instances but I wouldn't dismiss the churches as the better option overall.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Even if your contention that churches can take over the care & feeding of the poor [something I don't agree with] were correct,
Oh, it is correct.

there is still the fact that church assistance comes with a price: religion.
Shocking, isn't it? I mean, who do these church people think they are, church people or something?

Poor people shouldn't be forced to accept that as the price of their dinner.
There is no free lunch, or dinner. Beggars can't be choosers. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. No one has ever been killed with kindness. One can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. If you can't beat 'em, join em. Patience is a virtue. Good things come to those who wait. Hearing a little religion, but not paying any attention to it if you don't want to, is a small price to pay for a free meal. And some may hear it and get some comfort or use out of it. It reminds me of the Express-1 presentation I had to sit through for a free breakfast at the Expo. Having to sit through the presentation was a very small price to pay for the awesome free breakfast.
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Probably wouldn't paint all churches with such a broad brush. Quite a few do charity without mentioning religion. Oh wait, some do give free meals and say a prayer of thanks beforehand. Who wants to get hit by a bolt of lightning while dining? lol
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Speaking of right wing nuts is it still politically correct to use the word spooks even when referring to the Halloween season or is that word banned now ?
 
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Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Speaking of right wing nuts is it still politically correct to use the word spooks even when referring to the Halloween season or is that word banned now ?
Spooks is OK for spies and black ops guys, not sure about ghosts.
:flykite:

In the cool of the evening
When everything is getting kinda groovy
I call you up and ask you
Would you like to go with me and see a movie
At first you say no you've got some plans for tonight
And then you stop and say allright
Love is kinda crazy with a spooky little girl like you

You always keep me guessing
I never seem to know what you are thinking
And if a fellow looks at you
You'd be sure your little eye will be a-winking

I get confused cause I don't know where I stand
And then you smile and hold my hand
Love is kinda crazy with a spooky little girl like you

Spooky!

{Bridge}

If you decide someday
To stop this little game that you are playing
I'm gonna tell you all the things
My heart's been a-dying to be saying
Just like a ghost
You've been a-haunting my dreams

So I propose on Halloween
Love is kinda crazy
With a spooky little girl like you

Spooky!
Spooky!

I said Spooky...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Churches provide food. shelter, and aid to the poor in return for being tax exempt - that's the deal. In effect, they are subsidized by the government, which is taxpayers. Using that to impose their beliefs upon those who have little choice but to be a captive audience is immoral, IMO.
 
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