Turn every school into a fortress.

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It's the guilty not the accused who deserve justice. Always has been and always will be. I may be just a dumb ole truck driver but I'm pretty sure the moment someone pulls the trigger inside a school they've joined the ranks of the guilty. Something I learned in some specialized training that's part of the huge amount you don't know.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
We can do both simultaneously. Increase security on-site and do a better job of identifying persons posing a threat. Most of our schools have no real security to speak of. It's like they've placed security on the honor system.

Truly, how does a family or community deal with the next Adam Lanza?

Helping the mentally ill isn't likely to change these kinds of acts. Whether it is the school, cinema, political rally you name it, all of these shooters were over 18 and actually 20 years or older.
Even if you identify them, then what? It is a long tedious and expensive process to commit someone against their will. And even then, there is a less than 50 percent chance you will have any success and that is assuming they have already commited an act of serious violence. Add the absence of that, and those odds drop to less than 5 percent. Just a reality.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Re: the McVeigh graphic. He didn't use a gun, but remember that as soon as he was caught, the demands for more gun control started. If a madman goes around stabbing people, Demon-crats will call for more gun control.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Re: the McVeigh graphic. He didn't use a gun, but remember that as soon as he was caught, the demands for more gun control started. If a madman goes around stabbing people, Demon-crats will call for more gun control.

Well sure. Because they might get access to a firearm.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Even if you identify them, then what? It is a long tedious and expensive process to commit someone against their will. And even then, there is a less than 50 percent chance you will have any success and that is assuming they have already commited an act of serious violence. Add the absence of that, and those odds drop to less than 5 percent.
That will not prevent the Gov. from spending 200 billion trying...
beside to commit someone against their will, is a long dream of Obama...
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, since you don't know what it is you don't know, you don't know. But since you are blissful that's all that matters.

Right, that is my take on it as well. There are some who don't know, and don't know that they don't know. So another person's continual posting on this subject to denigrate your character is worth about as much as a poopy diaper.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That will not prevent the Gov. from spending 200 billion trying...
beside to commit someone against their will, is a long dream of Obama...

Quite possible but once all this disappears from the headlines, he will move on to something else. There is little Obama will invest in unless he gains personally or politically. Or...that is what it has been up to this point.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
People need to look at the crux of what the government wants to take away here, and why they want to take it away. If it's as simple as weapons, they'd have to dig deep, like Britain, if they really want to stop these murders. As people said, it's more to do with the intent than the tool.

William Unek - 1954 and 1957 - Belgian Congo 21 killed, Tanganyika 36 killed - First 21 killed with an axe. Of the 36 killed on the second incident he killed 26 with a gun, 5 with an axe, stabbed one, burned two women and one child to death and strangled another.

Uganda - 1994 - 27 dead and 13 injured - All with a semi auto rifle while drunk and after fighting at a wedding.

Turkey - 1936 - 14 killed 3 wounded - Guns and knives...did they have "Assault Weapons" in 1936?

Uganda - 1950 - 12 killed - Man visited his dying son. Following the visit the distraught man ran through the hospital and killed a woman and 11 children.

Philippines - 1968 - 17 Killed - Hacked to death...does not provide weapon type.

Philippines - 1977 - 15 Killed - Stabbed as he ran wildly through a market

India - 1911 - 10 killed 11 injured - Melee type weapon..type not provided

China - 2003 - 13 killed - Melee Type Weapon...Victims stabbed to death

China - 2000 - 12 killed - Melee Type Weapon.

India - 1896 - 11 killed 2 injured - Melee Type Weapon...Type not provided.

Philippines - 1921 - 11 killed - Used a Bolo!

El Salvador - 1991 - 8 killed 90 wounded - Solider uses grenades when his girlfriend refused to dance with him.

South Korea - 1968 - 7 killed 52 wounded - Man throws grenade in a movie theater.

China - 2006 - 24 hurt - Suicidal farmer firebombs children

Japan - 2005 - 53 injured - Japanese student throws home made pipe bomb into a classroom.

China - 2002 - 42 dead 300 + injured - Intentional Poisoning

China 2010 - 17 dead - Coal worker went on a rampage and used a tractor to kill his victims.

Czechoslovakia - 1973 - 5 dead - Women who sent a letter before the attack explaining that the attack was based on revenge for thinking her family and the world hated her...She drove a truck into a crowd of about 25 people. 12 were injured.

United States - 1980 - Woman has schizophrenia - Drove her car onto a crowded street in reno. Killed 6 wounded 23 others.

Netherlands - 2008 - Man purposely drove his car into a parade for the royal family - Reason unknown, 8 dead, 10 injured

US - 1994 - 8 adults 4 children killed - Man arguing with his wife at a wedding tosses grenade at her.

South Korea - 2003 - 198 killed 147 injured - The arsonist was Kim Dae-han, a 56 year-old unemployed former taxi driver who had suffered a stroke in November 2001 that left him partly paralyzed. Kim was dissatisfied with his medical treatment and had expressed sentiments of violence and depression; he later told police he wanted to kill himself, but to do so in a crowded place rather than alone. By most accounts, on the morning of February 18, he boarded train 1079 on Line 1 in the direction of Daegok Station, carrying a duffel bag which contained two green milk cartons filled with a flammable liquid, possibly paint thinner or gasoline. As the train left Daegu Station around 9:53 a.m., Kim began fumbling with the cartons and a cigarette lighter, alarming other passengers who tried to stop him. In the struggle, one of the cartons spilled and its liquid contents caught fire as the train pulled into Jungangno Station in downtown Daegu. Kim, his back and legs on fire, managed to escape along with many passengers on train 1079, but within two minutes the fire had spread to all six cars.

Kuwait - 2009 - 57 killed 90 Wounded - Ex wife set fire to the wedding hall of a man who was getting remarried. *****!

China - 2010 - 10 killed - Axe

Russian - 1925 - 17 dead - Farmer burns village after land he wanted was given to another farmer. Witnesses stated that he threatened vengeance

Indonesia - 1987 - Man killed 20 wounded 12...Parang knife and a sickle

Philippines - 1956 - Man killed 16 after a family dispute. Used a knife and spear

Borneo - 1897 - After learning that his wife had been having an affair a man used a kris dagger to kill his wife and run madly down the street and kill 14 others.

United States - 1927 - 44 killed, including 38 children and 58 wounded. Disgruntled school board member used explosives to blow up a school. 500 pounds of unexploded incendiary devises were later found under other parts of the school. Hundreds believed saved by faulty fuses.

China - 2006 - 12 dead 5 injured - man forced his way into school kindergarten class using a knife. Poured gas in the room and ignited it.

Germany - 1961 - 11 killed 22 injured...most were students. Man was distraught over his wife's death and he had schizophrenia - Made a homemade flamethrower, lance and a mace which was used at a school while children were trapped in a classroom.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
People need to look at the crux of what the government wants to take away here, and why they want to take it away. If it's as simple as weapons, they'd have to dig deep, like Britain, if they really want to stop these murders. As people said, it's more to do with the intent than the tool.

William Unek - 1954 and 1957 - Belgian Congo 21 killed, Tanganyika 36 killed - First 21 killed with an axe. Of the 36 killed on the second incident he killed 26 with a gun, 5 with an axe, stabbed one, burned two women and one child to death and strangled another.

Uganda - 1994 - 27 dead and 13 injured - All with a semi auto rifle while drunk and after fighting at a wedding.

Turkey - 1936 - 14 killed 3 wounded - Guns and knives...did they have "Assault Weapons" in 1936?

Uganda - 1950 - 12 killed - Man visited his dying son. Following the visit the distraught man ran through the hospital and killed a woman and 11 children.

Philippines - 1968 - 17 Killed - Hacked to death...does not provide weapon type.

Philippines - 1977 - 15 Killed - Stabbed as he ran wildly through a market

India - 1911 - 10 killed 11 injured - Melee type weapon..type not provided

China - 2003 - 13 killed - Melee Type Weapon...Victims stabbed to death

China - 2000 - 12 killed - Melee Type Weapon.

India - 1896 - 11 killed 2 injured - Melee Type Weapon...Type not provided.

Philippines - 1921 - 11 killed - Used a Bolo!

El Salvador - 1991 - 8 killed 90 wounded - Solider uses grenades when his girlfriend refused to dance with him.

South Korea - 1968 - 7 killed 52 wounded - Man throws grenade in a movie theater.

China - 2006 - 24 hurt - Suicidal farmer firebombs children

Japan - 2005 - 53 injured - Japanese student throws home made pipe bomb into a classroom.

China - 2002 - 42 dead 300 + injured - Intentional Poisoning

China 2010 - 17 dead - Coal worker went on a rampage and used a tractor to kill his victims.

Czechoslovakia - 1973 - 5 dead - Women who sent a letter before the attack explaining that the attack was based on revenge for thinking her family and the world hated her...She drove a truck into a crowd of about 25 people. 12 were injured.

United States - 1980 - Woman has schizophrenia - Drove her car onto a crowded street in reno. Killed 6 wounded 23 others.

Netherlands - 2008 - Man purposely drove his car into a parade for the royal family - Reason unknown, 8 dead, 10 injured

US - 1994 - 8 adults 4 children killed - Man arguing with his wife at a wedding tosses grenade at her.

South Korea - 2003 - 198 killed 147 injured - The arsonist was Kim Dae-han, a 56 year-old unemployed former taxi driver who had suffered a stroke in November 2001 that left him partly paralyzed. Kim was dissatisfied with his medical treatment and had expressed sentiments of violence and depression; he later told police he wanted to kill himself, but to do so in a crowded place rather than alone. By most accounts, on the morning of February 18, he boarded train 1079 on Line 1 in the direction of Daegok Station, carrying a duffel bag which contained two green milk cartons filled with a flammable liquid, possibly paint thinner or gasoline. As the train left Daegu Station around 9:53 a.m., Kim began fumbling with the cartons and a cigarette lighter, alarming other passengers who tried to stop him. In the struggle, one of the cartons spilled and its liquid contents caught fire as the train pulled into Jungangno Station in downtown Daegu. Kim, his back and legs on fire, managed to escape along with many passengers on train 1079, but within two minutes the fire had spread to all six cars.

Kuwait - 2009 - 57 killed 90 Wounded - Ex wife set fire to the wedding hall of a man who was getting remarried. *****!

China - 2010 - 10 killed - Axe

Russian - 1925 - 17 dead - Farmer burns village after land he wanted was given to another farmer. Witnesses stated that he threatened vengeance

Indonesia - 1987 - Man killed 20 wounded 12...Parang knife and a sickle

Philippines - 1956 - Man killed 16 after a family dispute. Used a knife and spear

Borneo - 1897 - After learning that his wife had been having an affair a man used a kris dagger to kill his wife and run madly down the street and kill 14 others.

United States - 1927 - 44 killed, including 38 children and 58 wounded. Disgruntled school board member used explosives to blow up a school. 500 pounds of unexploded incendiary devises were later found under other parts of the school. Hundreds believed saved by faulty fuses.

China - 2006 - 12 dead 5 injured - man forced his way into school kindergarten class using a knife. Poured gas in the room and ignited it.

Germany - 1961 - 11 killed 22 injured...most were students. Man was distraught over his wife's death and he had schizophrenia - Made a homemade flamethrower, lance and a mace which was used at a school while children were trapped in a classroom.




This one below was a real nut case, but we still got explosives dont we?

United States - 1927 - 44 killed, including 38 children and 58 wounded. Disgruntled school board member used explosives to blow up a school. 500 pounds of unexploded incendiary devises were later found under other parts of the school. Hundreds believed saved by faulty fuses.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Don't forget that Russia, Germany, China, and several other 'gun controlled' countries did so by the use of force. They also murdered a hundred million or so on their quest to control the people. Often using 'mental illness' as an excuse to eliminate those who stood up against them.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
That will not prevent the Gov. from spending 200 billion trying...
beside to commit someone against their will, is a long dream of Obama...
I'm pretty sure Obama and the Democrats were actively helping mentally ill people get to the polls on Election Day.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We can do both simultaneously. Increase security on-site and do a better job of identifying persons posing a threat. Most of our schools have no real security to speak of. It's like they've placed security on the honor system.

Truly, how does a family or community deal with the next Adam Lanza?
In many instances people with mental illnesses that exhibit uncontrollable rage and/or irrational, defiant, violent behavior start to show symptoms at an early age. The following article has been wide distributed on the internet and discussed on talk radio and TV:

I am Adam Lanza's Mother - The Blue Review | The Blue Review

In many instances the parents of these mentally ill children are at a loss for an appropriate course of action because there just aren't many good alternatives available for treatment. Many insurance policies don't address certain things like institutionalizing these kids, not only due to the expense involved but also because of their supposed "rights". This is especially true after they reach the age of 18. The schools should also have an active part to play in this process for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that a lot of parents simply can't be objective about the possibility of their own child being mentally ill. Left untreated these mental disorders can worsen as the child grows older, resulting in the kinds of disaster in Newtown, CT.

Additional informative article: Mental Health: Oppositional Defiant Disorder
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
It's the guilty not the accused who deserve justice. Always has been and always will be.
That's a common, fundamental misunderstanding - probably based on a lopsided view of the matter - the guilty do indeed deserve justice (which might be defined as: the actions of the group against the transgressor) - it is partly why we, as a nation, are founded on the rule of law ...

I may be just a dumb ole truck driver but I'm pretty sure the moment someone pulls the trigger inside a school they've joined the ranks of the guilty.
In your particular case, it's not the guilty that I'm truly worried about ... it's all those innocent bystanders ...
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You needn't worry. I'm quite certain I know the difference between a shooter and a bystander and with scores and scores of hours of training with and practicing with a multi-time state pistol champion equally certain of many other things, all of which is part of why you are so blissful. That said, there's nothing more to say to interrupt so much bliss.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Don't forget that Russia, Germany, China, and several other 'gun controlled' countries did so by the use of force. They also murdered a hundred million or so on their quest to control the people. Often using 'mental illness' as an excuse to eliminate those who stood up against them.
Indeed ... a fact the busy-bodies would do very well to keep in mind before they jump on the bandwagon with the idea that identifying, labeling, and/or institutionalizing the (so-called) "mentally ill" is just a real swell idea and all peachy-keen ...

Mental illness is already used as a disqualifier for gun ownership and possession ... it's not real hard to imagine that those with an agenda might push to expand the classifying and labeling of people as "mentally ill" in order to achieve it ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
That will not prevent the Gov. from spending 200 billion trying ... beside to commit someone against their will, is a long dream of Obama ...
Looks like that's something that the Turkey Choker and Obama both share in common ... easier involuntary commitment laws ...

... such are the dewy dreams of authoritarians and petty tyrants ... be they on the left or on the right ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Right, that is my take on it as well. There are some who don't know, and don't know that they don't know. So another person's continual posting on this subject to denigrate your character is worth about as much as a poopy diaper.
I'm not denigrating his character ... I'm merely questioning his judgement ...

And that's based on his rather long historical record of various statements of dubious merit on here.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You needn't worry. I'm quite certain I know the difference between a shooter and a bystander
That you know what the difference analytically is not my concern - I'm quite sure you do know ...

My real concern is the accuracy of your perception, ability to reason, and your judgement.

and with scores and scores of hours of training with and practicing with a multi-time state pistol champion equally certain of many other things
Yeah ... well ... the happy fellow below had all kinds of "training" and "practice" as well - far more than you I'm quite sure - including being career military, with multiple deployments in war zones ... but that didn't keep him from going postal and brutally slaughtering 16 civilians as they were sleeping in their homes:

Robert-Bales-deranged.jpg

And I'm fairly sure he was "absolutely certain" (in a similar manner as you are) of his "capabilities" and of the "correctness" of his actions ...

The utterly delusional quite often are ...
 
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