The Game

[turritrans]

I think the title of the thread is very telling "the game"

We have heard responses from both sides of the fence and see an overall disconnect with operations and the o/o. Maybe the thread should be called "the partnership" because that is what really what this subject is all about. When your a large carrier with hundreds of trucks, it can be difficult to have that partnership within the organization in order to best service the customer. After all without these customers there is no freight to be dispatched on the trucks and the company and o/o suffer if that business gets shifted elsewhere.

Dispatch wants to move loads, o/o's want good paying freight. It's difficult to always meet in the middle.

 

[mcavoy33]

Dispatch wants to move loads, o/o's want good paying freight. It's difficult to always meet in the middle.

Would paying dispatchers a structured commission get them to be more cognizant of everyone's required markup?

aka they make more money on more profitable loads and if there is a load that needs to be done to satisfy a customer, then if the driver is taking a hit, then the dispatcher also takes a hit, along with the company?

At the end of the day, paying dispatchers simply to arrange loads probably isn't the best way to maximize the firm's interest or the o/o's interest. The loads need to be profitable for everyone involved.

I honestly don't understand enough about the dispatch field, all I know is that at the company I work for, there is no way the dispatchers are paid hourly, they have to be on some sort of commission, otherwise I don't can't fathom them working 70 hours a week for an hourly wage. I can't see the company paying OT wages either.

It intrigues me but I don't feel like its my place to ask their business either.

 

[greg334]

I think the title of the thread is very telling "the game"

We have heard responses from both sides of the fence and see an overall disconnect with operations and the o/o. Maybe the thread should be called "the partnership" because that is what really what this subject is all about. When your a large carrier with hundreds of trucks, it can be difficult to have that partnership within the organization in order to best service the customer. After all without these customers there is no freight to be dispatched on the trucks and the company and o/o suffer if that business gets shifted elsewhere.

Dispatch wants to move loads, o/o's want good paying freight. It's difficult to always meet in the middle.

I would agree but it isn't a partnership, in order for it to be considered one, there has to be more than a beep and no demands.

In the case of IRT, FedEx has many other avenues to move freight and the dispatcher is wrong in asking the owner to step in. The relationship with the owner and driver is not the same as the owner and company and when we start treating the driver as just a driver with no input what so ever, he now is an employee and nothing more.

 

[Monty]

The relationship with the owner and driver is not the same as the owner and company and when we start treating the driver as just a driver with no input what so ever, he now is an employee and nothing more.

Am I missing something here? If a man drives for me, he IS my employee. I always treated them as such .... as such, they will respond to to my wishes, or find another place of employment.

Matter of fact, I demanded that Roberts NOT contact my drivers with any issues they had, bring them to me first .... they are my responsibility and have no relationship to the carrier. (Except safety issues)

 

[BillChaffey]

Driver, employee, O\O. Isn't one of the first rules from the IRS that to be considered a Sub Contractor you have to work with out SUPERVISION?.

 

[AMonger]

Am I missing something here? If a man drives for me, he IS my employee. I always treated them as such .... as such, they will respond to to my wishes, or find another place of employment.

Do you pay their payroll and FICA taxes, and their workman's comp,.etc? What kind of tax forms do you issue them at the end of the year, an employee's W2 or a 1099? If you treaty them as a contractor for tax purposes but as an employee otherwise, the question is not will you be in trouble with the government, but when?

You tell a contractor what loads he has to take, and all it's going to take is one of them calling the IRS on you, and they're going to land on you and your checkbook with both feet. They'll investigate, and if they determine you were playing both ends against the middle, they'll assess you the full amount of your "employees'" FICA, workman's comp (actually, your state will do that), federal payroll tax, and penalties and interest on it all. And they'd be right to do it.

If you want to shift the burden of those expenses into the guy driving your truck, you're shifting some autonomy with it. I'm sure you'd like all the benefits of having a contractor but treating them like an employee; everybody would. But it doesn't work that way.

This is similar to the winter driving philosophy about the driver being the captain of the ship: the contractor is the captain of the ship and makes the day-to-day decisions, but if he makes too many bad decisions, the admiral will find himself a new captain.

Now, otoh, if you pay the piper, you do get to call the tune. Just don't try to shift the piper's fee onto your contractor driver and then still call the tune.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

The title was the Game.


It was a Seniero on what each one of you thought.
For you to sit down and discuss it. Not argue amoungst your selfs but sit down and have a real grown up discussion about it.
The game was just that a game.
Some tried to read more into it than it was.
Note the Title THE GAME!!

Thanks for the participation and that being said:

 

[Monty]

Do you pay their payroll and FICA taxes, and their workman's comp,.etc?

This was in 1985-1994 while I was leased to Roberts Express, and yes I paid all that. I no longer have drivers, but should I decide to place one in this Sprinter, they would still be my employee.

What kind of tax forms do you issue them at the end of the year, an employee's W2 or a 1099?

They received W-2's

If you treaty them as a contractor for tax purposes but as an employee otherwise, the question is not will you be in trouble with the government, but when?

I never treated them as a contractor, =I= was the contractor, to Roberts, they were MY employee's.

You tell a contractor what loads he has to take, and all it's going to take is one of them calling the IRS on you, and they're going to land on you and your checkbook with both feet. They'll investigate, and if they determine you were playing both ends against the middle, they'll assess you the full amount of your "employees'" FICA, workman's comp (actually, your state will do that), federal payroll tax, and penalties and interest on it all. And they'd be right to do it.


Yes, they would have been right, had I done that. I assume from the tone of your post you know folks in that situation. My EMPLOYEE's never were. Now, Robert's sure tried to treat ME as an employee, making demands I was not willing to honor. I maintained my status as an independent contractor with them.

If you want to shift the burden of those expenses into the guy driving your truck, you're shifting some autonomy with it. I'm sure you'd like all the benefits of having a contractor but treating them like an employee; everybody would. But it doesn't work that way.

I never worked it that way .....

This is similar to the winter driving philosophy about the driver being the captain of the ship: the contractor is the captain of the ship and makes the day-to-day decisions, but if he makes too many bad decisions, the admiral will find himself a new captain.

Now, otoh, if you pay the piper, you do get to call the tune. Just don't try to shift the piper's fee onto your contractor driver and then still call the tune.

I took care of my employee's .... doing battle many times on their behalf with Roberts. They were instructed to never have ill words with the carrier, that was my duty. And I upheld my end of the bargain. My drivers had both fuel cards from several sources, and their own Comcard from Roberts and they received their pay before I did ... many a week I was broke, covering breakdown expenses, etc.

Much to the chagrin of Robert's dispatchers when they were told if they had a complaint, to take it to the owner, the CONTRACTOR.

All of that said ...... this is the reason I am at Landstar, they do NOT tell me how to run my business. If I choose to refuse a run, so be it.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

The title was the Game.
It was a Seniero on what each one of you thought.
For you to sit down and discuss it. Not argue amoungst your selfs but sit down and have a real grown up discussion about it.
The game was just that a game.
Some tried to read more into it than it was.
Note the Title THE GAME!!
Thanks for the participation and that being said:

 

[Monty]

Amonger,

Would you care to reply?

 

[AMonger]

Amonger,

Would you care to reply?

To what? You said your drivers are actually your employees, not contractors. You withhold their deductions, issue them a W2 rather than a 1099, pay payroll taxes, etc. That's quite unusual in this game, but if that's how you do it, then hey are, in fact, your employees. The problem surfaces only if they're contractors but you treat them as employees.

Was there something else in play that I missed?

Earlier, you asked, "Am I missing something?" That something is that most expedite drivers who drive for someone else are contractors, do their owner's situation and yours aren't really comparable.

 

[Monty]

Was there something else in play that I missed?

Earlier, you asked, "Am I missing something?" That something is that most expedite drivers who drive for someone else are contractors, do their owner's situation and yours aren't really comparable.

Nope, nothing missed .... I just wondered if you had understood I did have employee's.

And thanks for info on contract drivers ..I never saw the value in that.

btw, I no longer have any drivers, after Roberts aggravated me one to many times, (1994), I sold all the trucks and let the drivers go.

Now it is me and a van .....

 

[AMonger]

Reminds me of a story I heard about a rancher who acquired his own trucks to haul his cattle to market. Had to hire drivers and go through the whole rigamarole. Pretty soon, he's hauling for other ranchers in the area, and not long after that, he's essentially running a trucking company in addition to ranching.

In his case, though, it was his drivers who were the last straw. One day, he told his foreman to sell all the trucks.

"Maybe we ought to keep just one to haul your cattle in, don't you think, boss?" the foreman countered.

"One truck means one truck driver. Sell 'em all!"

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I would agree but it isn't a partnership, in order for it to be considered one, there has to be more than a beep and no demands.

In the case of IRT, FedEx has many other avenues to move freight and the dispatcher is wrong in asking the owner to step in. The relationship with the owner and driver is not the same as the owner and company and when we start treating the driver as just a driver with no input what so ever, he now is an employee and nothing more.

The day C&M calls the fleet owner I drive for, complaining about me not taking a load, that's the day I move on. I don't need a babysitter; and C&M has way too many outlets to choose from. I know they wouldn't do that anyway. Cal runs a tight ship, but he's not a jerk. And now you know why I'll never return to FedEx...

 

[mcavoy33]

The day C&M calls the fleet owner I drive for, complaining about me not taking a load, that's the day I move on.

But the real question is, would you fleet owner ask you to take the load, or would he inquire why you didn't and agree with your reasoning?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

But the real question is, would you fleet owner ask you to take the load, or would he inquire why you didn't and agree with your reasoning?

He is hands off in the load decision making process. I rarely pizz off the dispatchers anyway. If they're in a tight jam, I'll do some runnin for them. But they also know a bad run when they see it, and usually start out by saying, "I know this is a crappy load..." In my experience, I don't think I've ever been shunned for turning down something. C&M is in business, and knows we are too.

 

[Monty]

I'm not sure I understand this reasoning. Isn't the "owner" more than a truck rental agency?

Seems he must have the contract with the carrier, and not you. He has an investment that must make money also.

Why would he not be involved?

I'm just asking.

 

[Bruno]

He is hands off in the load decision making process. I rarely pizz off the dispatchers anyway. If they're in a tight jam, I'll do some runnin for them. But they also know a bad run when they see it, and usually start out by saying, "I know this is a crappy load..." In my experience, I don't think I've ever been shunned for turning down something. C&M is in business, and knows we are too.

I let our contracted drivers choose what loads they take or don't take. For the most part they call us to see what we think in regards to the load offer.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I'm not sure I understand this reasoning. Isn't the "owner" more than a truck rental agency?

Seems he must have the contract with the carrier, and not you. He has an investment that must make money also.

Why would he not be involved?

I'm just asking.

The owner has a contract with both the company and the contractor, if the driver is not an employee. If that's the case, then the owner should be hands off. I know of an owner who likes to micromanage where his driver gets fuel. To me, that's over the top. But it does help out newbs.

As far as picking loads, that should be all on the contractor. In that type of relationship, the owner can tell the contractor what he'd take himself; but in no way should he dictate that the contractor WILL take this or that load. That's an employer/employee relationship, as you know.

 

[jjoerger]

When we drove for fleet owners our contract was to lease the vehicle. There was nothing in the lease agreement about the owner telling us what loads to take or when to take time off.
If a fleet owner wants to micro manage there vehicles they need to hire drivers as employees.