the cargo van expediter

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Not sit more than 24 hours in a week ? Don't waste a trip to Ohio . It's not unusual for cargo vans to sit 2 or 3 days to wait for a load .
You don't understand the way expediting works . The carriers must have vans available for immediate pickup at the shipper . To have vans always available they must have vans always sitting waiting for a load . Think about that .
Then think about why they are contracting vans . It's not because of increased business . It's because another van owner called it quits .
If you have Class A experience you should have bought a tractor . There is not a surplus of Class E O/O's like there is B units .

Unless you run for a carrier that has 10 vans sitting in every major city in America, this is not the case. Having a van sitting there waiting for a possible customer does no good to the carrier. I don't usually book a load (unless I have authority to broker it) without having a vehicle available to run it. There are many times when we lose a bid, not because of price, but because there is a truck that can pick 45 minutes sooner than ours.

Right now freight is hot and cold, especially for vans. There are days when I get a call on every vehicle we have posted, sometimes minutes after already booking it. Then there are days that the we quote multiple loads for a vehicle and they all fall flat.

So why would a carrier hold back on a van, if there was already an opportunity to book it? You most likely would not apply this logic to a straight or tractor.

Side note: One of my owner ops was picking at an airport a few weeks ago and everyone was a-buzz about van drivers. Evidently, some Sprinter driver had just been in there bragging how she was making $3000 every week. Of course you can imagine all the interest that those kind of numbers created amongst the dock help. They all wanted to quit there job and drive a van. Easy money, right? Even if they made 3 grand, it isn't all profit. but that is the employee mentality coming up against the small business reality. Next thing you know, there are 4 more people quitting their day job in search of the 1-tonner's golden goose egg. My vans run hard for what they make. It's no picnic.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Jeff,

You are assuming too much.

FedEx is not a carrier, it is a package delivery service and has a large diverse customer base.

It is not like Panther, Landstar or Load-1, it is like ... well ... FedEx.

They can afford to idle capacity, a lot of the times their capacity gets offers to produce revenue and it seems to be between contracted and owned ... owned gets loaded first.

The contractor is just that, a contractor ... so sitting 4 days waiting for a load in an area where there is a lot of freight movement can happen a lot with FedEx - van or straight truck.

It does not mean FedEx isn't any good, that's my reason to tell him to go and see what it is all about first hand and we tend to forget that not all companies work for everyone.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
New math, old math, unusual loads dispatched at non-standard routing times... all I know is, a 500 mile run takes about 8 hours to run, 650 miles is about 10.5 hours, 750 miles is 12 hours. Longer loads and you can start doubling up and figure from there. Then figure 15 minutes per fuel stop. (Yes, there are exceptions to these figures, there always are exceptions to everything, but generally speaking this is what it is.)

On all loads longer than 500 miles you want to be able to deliver it two hours early. A two hour window allows time for construction and other traffic delays, bad weather, missing an exit or taking a wrong turn, most can change a flat tire in an hour. On loads less than 500 miles a two hour windows isn't practical or necessary.

On loads that require a 5 hour break, you need to be able to build up enough time for the 5 hour break, plus that two hour window, otherwise you're cutting things too close and any of the above delays could make you late. A 950 mile run can be done in under 16 hours, but your 16 hour clock needs to start when you leave the shipper, not a minute sooner. Loads between 950 miles and 1300 miles are the sweet spot where they really and truly need to be swapped, because you cannot run those and take a 5 hour break and be on a pace to deliver the load two hours early. Loads greater than 1300 miles can comfortably be delivered with a 5 hour break and a two hour window.

Example, a 1200 mile run at 47 MPH is 25.53 hours. General rule of thumb is to add 15 minutes to the time for getting loaded, and then round up to the next half hour, so this load will generally be dispatched at 26 hours. Using the "650 miles @ 10.5 hours" guide above (double it and take off 100 miles and 2 hours), and that 1200 miles is going to take roughly 19 hours to run. Add 5 hours for the break and you're at 24 hours, which leaves the two hour window... except, you'll need to whack off 30 minutes for two fuel stops, leaving you one and a half hours to spare. If you need 3 fuel stops you're down to an hour and 15 minutes. That's a pretty tiny window to shoot for and leaves little room for error.

1250 miles and you really can get those two hours in, but it depends on routing, time of day, and other factors. At 1300 miles you can pretty much count on running that one comfortably, safely, and without much stress, getting the 5 hour break in and having a two hour window to play with if you need it.

You can disagree if you like, and you can go all "Ironman" all you want, but the above is reality for a professional cargo van driver. Again, yes, I know there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and not the norm. It's the people who think they are the Ironman exception to the norm who run between 950 and 1300 miles with no break that should scare the Hеll out of everyone on the road. Yes, it is a proven fact that most accidents happen in the first couple hours of service, but that data is garnered from truckers who have to log HoS and does not even include a data sampling base for those driving more than 11 or 12 hours.

Everybody is a good driver. Just ask them and they'll tell you. "I'm an excellent driver. Never had an accident, therefore I'm an excellent driver. Yeah. Yeah." They're all Rainman. Drunks will tell you they're not too drunk to drive, and tired and fatigued people will tell you they are neither tired nor fatigued.

The DOT doesn't have statistics on the accident rate beyond about 12 hours, but carriers with cargo vans who keep track of such things do. I've discussed it with those who keep track of these things, and seen the numbers from two different carriers (my former and my current carrier), and the numbers show, unambiguously, that the rate of cargo van accidents and incidents rises after a certain number of miles or hours between breaks.

Con-Way NOW, my former carrier would rarely let a cargo van go more than 750 or 800 miles without a swap unless there was ample time in the load for breaks. Panther, my current carrier, is a little more lenient with 900 miles or 16 hours, whichever comes first. Granted, Panther applies the rule hard and fast and uses no intelligence or common sense whatsoever in the decision making process, as they prefer to use theoretical worst-case scenarios, rather than the reality above, in determining how far someone can drive in a given amount of time. They aren't as interested in reducing the probability of a load being delivered late, they much prefer to eliminate the possibility of it being late, and in doing so they make some truly stupid decisions (like paying $300 for a cross-dock fee at a tow yard in the middle of the night on a load that doesn't even need to be swapped in the first place). But I digress.

Don't be stupid. It's not whether or not you can do something, but rather whether or not you should. Don't let a Dollar Sign Woody drain the blood from your brain and make you stupid. You have to pick up and deliver Safely, Legally, and On-Time. Gotta have all three all the time.

We are a CV....no such thing as legal for us...
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
We are a CV....no such thing as legal for us...

Not quite... If a CV is seen swerving all over the road at 0430 and is pulled over, the officer will probably cite the driver for driving while fatigued and put him OOS. HOS doesn't have to come into play.

Edit: I just re-read what you wrote and I'm thinking you meant illegal? Or, I guess it means the same either way.
 
Last edited:

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Not quite... If a CV is seen swerving all over the road at 0430 and is pulled over, the officer will probably cite the driver for driving while fatigued and put him OOS. HOS doesn't have to come into play.

Edit: I just re-read what you wrote and I'm thinking you meant illegal? Or, I guess it means the same either way.

He could do that to a car as well....or RV...but what I meant was we have no legal requirements with HOS or FMSCA...just the regular 4 wheeler legalities..
 

Thom75

Seasoned Expediter
I've learned a lot reading this forum.but, I have one question.and that would be,what is the most common freight for a CV?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Safe, Legal, and On-Time. HoS has nothing to do with it. Many van expediters will be On-Time, but will exceed the speed limit to do so, and that's not Legal. Some will argue that speeding is also unsafe, and in many cases it is, but speeding in and of itself isn't necessarily unsafe, as speed limits are most often arbitrary, usually arbitrarily low. There are many instances where exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe, depending on driving conditions. But safe or not, it's always illegal.


"If a CV is seen swerving all over the road at 0430 and is pulled over, the officer will probably cite the driver for driving while fatigued and put him OOS. HOS doesn't have to come into play."

Well, no, of course HoS doesn't come into play, since that only applies to drivers of Commercial Motor Vehicles that are required to log HoS. So do laws against fatigued driving. It's just as likely for a cargo van driver to be placed OOS for fatigued driving as it is the driver of a Camry or a soccer mommy van to be placed OOS.

The likelihood is zero.

Being placed Out of Service is dependent on Hours of Service to begin with, and since cargo van drivers do not have Hours of Service, they cannot be placed Out of Service, anymore than the driver of the Camry can.

There is only one state that has a fatigued driving law on the books, and that's New Jersey, and even then in order to be cited under the law you have to kill someone in an accident while fatigued (Maggie's Law).

An officer can cite you for reckless driving, suggest (but not demand) that you go to the nearest safe place and take a nap, or even arrest you if they feel you are enough of a danger to others, but "Don't move for 10 hours" ain't gonna happen to a non-CMV.
 

The Enemy

Veteran Expediter
I've learned a lot reading this forum.but, I have one question.and that would be,what is the most common freight for a CV?

I think I can answer this. My most common freight is anything that is legal to haul and will fit in my Sprinter.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
I've learned a lot reading this forum.but, I have one question.and that would be,what is the most common freight for a CV?

Well we have carried a couple of washers to a Power plant, they fit nicely in hubby's top pocket :p to 2500lbs of paper cups, or nuts and bolts, or engine parts, or .... , or ....... :D

Anything that wants expediting :p
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Safe, Legal, and On-Time. HoS has nothing to do with it. Many van expediters will be On-Time, but will exceed the speed limit to do so, and that's not Legal. Some will argue that speeding is also unsafe, and in many cases it is, but speeding in and of itself isn't necessarily unsafe, as speed limits are most often arbitrary, usually arbitrarily low. There are many instances where exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe, depending on driving conditions. But safe or not, it's always illegal.


"If a CV is seen swerving all over the road at 0430 and is pulled over, the officer will probably cite the driver for driving while fatigued and put him OOS. HOS doesn't have to come into play."

Well, no, of course HoS doesn't come into play, since that only applies to drivers of Commercial Motor Vehicles that are required to log HoS. So do laws against fatigued driving. It's just as likely for a cargo van driver to be placed OOS for fatigued driving as it is the driver of a Camry or a soccer mommy van to be placed OOS.

The likelihood is zero.

Being placed Out of Service is dependent on Hours of Service to begin with, and since cargo van drivers do not have Hours of Service, they cannot be placed Out of Service, anymore than the driver of the Camry can.

There is only one state that has a fatigued driving law on the books, and that's New Jersey, and even then in order to be cited under the law you have to kill someone in an accident while fatigued (Maggie's Law).

An officer can cite you for reckless driving, suggest (but not demand) that you go to the nearest safe place and take a nap, or even arrest you if they feel you are enough of a danger to others, but "Don't move for 10 hours" ain't gonna happen to a non-CMV.

I meant my response to appeal to good ole fashion common sense...traffic laws included....

I know...common sense is dead...:p
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I've learned a lot reading this forum.but, I have one question.and that would be,what is the most common freight for a CV?
Stuff.

Stuff in boxes, banded or shrink-wrapped to skids, usually.

The stuff, of course, could be anything. The most common category is probably automotive freight, parts for cars and trucks moving between suppliers and assembly plants, but that's because the automotive industry comprises the largest single segment of exclusive use of the truck, expedited emergency freight. But you've got tool & die stuff, machine parts for gold mines and chicken processing plants, you've got peel-n-stick labels for bottles of olive oil and plastic packaging for string cheese, you've got batteries for Ace Hardware and rifles for Fort Stewart, you've got personal floatation devices for oil spill cleaner uppers in Louisiana and 55-gallon drums of spray-on foam insulation, and you've got a single padded envelope with a computer circuit board in it.

You know, stuff.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I meant my response to appeal to good ole fashion common sense...traffic laws included....
I know. You're response was spot on. :)

Most carriers and drivers who use the phrase "Safe, Legal and On-Time" are referring to the log books being legal. But the term can be applied to whatever vehicle you are driving irrespective of logging. In the case of a cargo van, "legal" means all the regular routine legal stuff.

I know...common sense is dead...:p
Replaced by overreactions to faux fear.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
SO, i'm kinda wondering where all the wanna-be newb's a gonna settle at?? Are you going to a Carrier that is for old farts like Leo that can't do the 600 after 1800, and nurtures you? Or, are you going to a Carrier that challenges you (in mind and body)???I really don't want this thread to just die, i'd really like ti know what you decided, and why?
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
And what company figures time allowed at 58 miles an hour? E1 is figured at 50 panther 47 1/2 And I imagine the fed is close to those. Trash in trash out will always get you figures to prove your point even if they are made up. I have never seen a company figure cv loads at your imaginary figure.

I have seen loads offered at higher than 70mph. Long ones too. Those are usually conjured by a shipper's need time and an ignorant sales worm. Your carrier decides if they want to guarantee that kind of nonsense or not. Now, at a 45 mph average, I have no problem offering a 1000 miler to a driver that knows how to pace himself and take that break when its time.

It's definitely true though that, the more kids in the house, the more rules you have to make. When you're in dispatch and all you know is that unit JP4612-43XG3 is assigned to that Omaha to East Syracuse load, it's difficult to know and trust in the driver's personal level of ability. So then you hire a safety supervisor who must put into play a regulation based upon the lowest common denominator in the organization. Then a meeting is called where they announce that a CV driver is only able to do 650 miles safely. Any more and it will be swapped. After awhile, the drivers abilities adjust so that 650 is all they can accomplish. Of course these same types of organizations that generally waste valuable driver time and energy by relocating them to predetermined "express centers" upon load completion. And while the "tired" drivers for these carriers are making a certain number of cents per mile relocating to sit with the herd, the drivers for savvy upstarts are already sleeping and preparing for the next round, not far from the last drop.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
I guess I been brain dead for a couple posts. The real answer would/could come from Missie. She been there done that.....got the T shirt.

Where ya at Missie???????
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
A man's got to know his limitations as Clint Eastwood said in The Enforcer. You also gotta know what drivers can get the job done. I know that I can do a thousand miles before I need a 4-5 hour break, or at least some sort of nap time. That is about all I can guarantee.

Knowing this, I do not take loads that I can't guarantee to be on time to delivery. I had a Bolt agent ask me how much time I needed on a thousand mile load a few weeks ago. I told him to figure everything out at a 50 MPH average and he ended up giving me 20 hours on the load.

I completed the load in 17 hours and that included a 2 hour sleep break. But there were no delays and I was able to get loaded 2 hours early. The run was still challenging because I picked up at midnight after being up since that morning. But I made it there early and in a safe manner.
 
Top