chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
LOL, yeap "NOT" should have been in there....There are companies that will let you run like that and get the job done...take that PM info i sent you and run with it, they will let you do exactly that....
the cargo van expediter
- Thread starter Thom75
- Start date
Not sure what you are hearing but no, it doesn't work that way. It is 48 miles from the south suburb where my house is to the north suburb where my dad's house is. From his house it's 7 miles to the best chicken fried steak anywhere. I can drive to his place, take him for lunch, take him home and drive back home and it does nothing to my dwell time, load offers, etc. etc.. I've never had a problem with moving for shower, food, entertainment or whatever.
The company says "say there mister van driver, we have a load picking up in Laredo at 2300 Wed. and delivering at 0300 Fri. in Romulus, Mi. paying 98cpm."
Scenario 1: Company limits solo van but you could run Laredo to Memphis, 875 miles for $858 and swap it off to another van.
Scenario 2: Company doesn't impose sensible limits so an Ironman (there are many many who self assign that capability so this isn't pointing at anyone specifically, just using the above as the catalyst to make a point) takes the load figuring he can average 58mph moving average for 1632 miles and be safe doing it.
The company in scenario 1 uses the common sense we'd hope everyone would use and certainly that's a nice run with good money. In scenario 2 it's a matter of IF. If this is the time the luck runs out. It isn't a case of will it but a case of when will it.
As the others told you, the Fed is exclusive use only. Not to your advantage. That 24 hour requirement would be a deal buster there as well. I think I would go with your own findings and find another use for the van unless you can provide a lot of flexibility.
Just a note some people on this site think because they do not feel safe driving 1500 miles no one else can safely do it either. (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular) It has been explained numerous times that on long loads like that you can always build up time to sleep for 4 or 5 hours. I am not real sure what the difference is between that long haul being up all day and then getting a load at 8pm that goes 700 miles that you can only build up an hour or two sleep time on. It is a proven fact that most accidents happen in the first couple hours of service so for anyone driving any distance it is not a matter of if it will happen but when.
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Right over here. Yes, I'm one of the ones who knows not thinks it's an accident waiting to happen. In the scenario above, a 4 hour break would require a 68mph moving average. Also note the pickup at 2300 which is Xiggi's scenario but with a 1632 mile run instead of a 700 mile run.
Taking into account the 65mph speed limit in Texas during hours of darkness, 60mph speed limit in metro areas, lower limits in other areas like Ohio, lower speeds off the interstate for fuel stops, pit stops etc., getting something to eat, and everything else involved my scenario is one of a guy who can maybe get a 2 hour or so nap after being up all day Wed. and taking a load at bedtime. Even taking it to swap off in Memphis would be pushing it but the point of that was that some swaps are definitely worth accepting.
Taking into account the 65mph speed limit in Texas during hours of darkness, 60mph speed limit in metro areas, lower limits in other areas like Ohio, lower speeds off the interstate for fuel stops, pit stops etc., getting something to eat, and everything else involved my scenario is one of a guy who can maybe get a 2 hour or so nap after being up all day Wed. and taking a load at bedtime. Even taking it to swap off in Memphis would be pushing it but the point of that was that some swaps are definitely worth accepting.
AutonomyRex
Seasoned Expediter
Hey Bryce...
Why don't you give ASE a hollar....ad states they are seeking CV's.
I was wondering why you were seeking a CV....I had the same thoughts as you months ago.....BUT no HOS and flexible parking didn't pay the bills or fund my retirement. Plus, too many supply demand isusses to contend with. Anyway...I like and need my sleep, been logging for years.....I didn't want to constantly run to make a buck.
Run Safe
Yes one can pick up 15-20 minutes per hour when interstate driving...so every 3 hrs is 1 hour of sleep earned...approximately...
I once had to swap out a 600 miler once..talk about embarrassing...couldn't do the last 200 miles!! I tried every trick I knew and pooped out...
Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
the only guarantee in this biz is there are no guarantees.
business can up and business can be down. those are guarantees.
some months are very much better than others. that is a guarantee.
you are starting in november followed by december. usually a busy time. come jan the bottom drops out and you sit. we all sit. THAT is a guarantee.
if you can work and live with these guarantees then this is viable for you. if not, then do not envy the logless, non hos life style and remain otr at 39 cents. it is guaranteed.
business can up and business can be down. those are guarantees.
some months are very much better than others. that is a guarantee.
you are starting in november followed by december. usually a busy time. come jan the bottom drops out and you sit. we all sit. THAT is a guarantee.
if you can work and live with these guarantees then this is viable for you. if not, then do not envy the logless, non hos life style and remain otr at 39 cents. it is guaranteed.
AutonomyRex
Seasoned Expediter
He asked for verification is all, not any guarantees....
And only Toiletpaper haulers make .39/mile.....try more like .48 + .065 monthly fuel bonus...sooo easy to make at 62mph. Bryce, with your experience, you should run specialized freight....mainstream or Expedite.
Bryce... I ran into 2 ASE drivers TA in Toledo a few weeks back, a CV and a straight....both were very happy with thier miles as an overall AVERAGE. Plus they have a few added perks...if you read up on the info page.
I'm not using that new math as I'm old. In the old reliable math it's as I illustrated. From 2300 Wed. to 0300 Fri. is 28 hours, Wed. 1, Thu. 24, Fri. 3. 1632 miles in 28 hours is 58.3 mph moving average. 1632 miles in 24 hours is 68 mph moving average, verified with a calculator. So no, there aren't 8 extra hours in my example and a 4 hour rest makes you late or illegal along the way.
And what company figures time allowed at 58 miles an hour? E1 is figured at 50 panther 47 1/2 And I imagine the fed is close to those. Trash in trash out will always get you figures to prove your point even if they are made up. I have never seen a company figure cv loads at your imaginary figure.
I used numbers from a load I was aware of that wasn't exactly a standard load figured at standard figures. I'm not arguing what's the norm. I'm giving an example of a load that an Ironman would say yes to because they are Ironmen and can run the loads that mere mortals can't.
ChuckStruck
Seasoned Expediter
This is my first post here as a potential cargo van expediter.
I don't think I am able to post a new thread so I'll ask a couple of questions here. I spent several hours looking through the old posts and did some searches but didn't really find what I needed.
Is it possible to work as an expediter for a year then take six months to a year off then come back and work for another year and repeat the process? I don't need much income, just looking to maintain a nestegg . Thanks.
I don't think I am able to post a new thread so I'll ask a couple of questions here. I spent several hours looking through the old posts and did some searches but didn't really find what I needed.
Is it possible to work as an expediter for a year then take six months to a year off then come back and work for another year and repeat the process? I don't need much income, just looking to maintain a nestegg . Thanks.
ebsprintin
Veteran Expediter
That is a deal you want to run past a recruiter. There are a couple students that sort of do something like that. But after a couple cycles of that some companies will classify you as someone with an unstable work history.
eb
New math, old math, unusual loads dispatched at non-standard routing times... all I know is, a 500 mile run takes about 8 hours to run, 650 miles is about 10.5 hours, 750 miles is 12 hours. Longer loads and you can start doubling up and figure from there. Then figure 15 minutes per fuel stop. (Yes, there are exceptions to these figures, there always are exceptions to everything, but generally speaking this is what it is.)
On all loads longer than 500 miles you want to be able to deliver it two hours early. A two hour window allows time for construction and other traffic delays, bad weather, missing an exit or taking a wrong turn, most can change a flat tire in an hour. On loads less than 500 miles a two hour windows isn't practical or necessary.
On loads that require a 5 hour break, you need to be able to build up enough time for the 5 hour break, plus that two hour window, otherwise you're cutting things too close and any of the above delays could make you late. A 950 mile run can be done in under 16 hours, but your 16 hour clock needs to start when you leave the shipper, not a minute sooner. Loads between 950 miles and 1300 miles are the sweet spot where they really and truly need to be swapped, because you cannot run those and take a 5 hour break and be on a pace to deliver the load two hours early. Loads greater than 1300 miles can comfortably be delivered with a 5 hour break and a two hour window.
Example, a 1200 mile run at 47 MPH is 25.53 hours. General rule of thumb is to add 15 minutes to the time for getting loaded, and then round up to the next half hour, so this load will generally be dispatched at 26 hours. Using the "650 miles @ 10.5 hours" guide above (double it and take off 100 miles and 2 hours), and that 1200 miles is going to take roughly 19 hours to run. Add 5 hours for the break and you're at 24 hours, which leaves the two hour window... except, you'll need to whack off 30 minutes for two fuel stops, leaving you one and a half hours to spare. If you need 3 fuel stops you're down to an hour and 15 minutes. That's a pretty tiny window to shoot for and leaves little room for error.
1250 miles and you really can get those two hours in, but it depends on routing, time of day, and other factors. At 1300 miles you can pretty much count on running that one comfortably, safely, and without much stress, getting the 5 hour break in and having a two hour window to play with if you need it.
You can disagree if you like, and you can go all "Ironman" all you want, but the above is reality for a professional cargo van driver. Again, yes, I know there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and not the norm. It's the people who think they are the Ironman exception to the norm who run between 950 and 1300 miles with no break that should scare the Hеll out of everyone on the road. Yes, it is a proven fact that most accidents happen in the first couple hours of service, but that data is garnered from truckers who have to log HoS and does not even include a data sampling base for those driving more than 11 or 12 hours.
Everybody is a good driver. Just ask them and they'll tell you. "I'm an excellent driver. Never had an accident, therefore I'm an excellent driver. Yeah. Yeah." They're all Rainman. Drunks will tell you they're not too drunk to drive, and tired and fatigued people will tell you they are neither tired nor fatigued.
The DOT doesn't have statistics on the accident rate beyond about 12 hours, but carriers with cargo vans who keep track of such things do. I've discussed it with those who keep track of these things, and seen the numbers from two different carriers (my former and my current carrier), and the numbers show, unambiguously, that the rate of cargo van accidents and incidents rises after a certain number of miles or hours between breaks.
Con-Way NOW, my former carrier would rarely let a cargo van go more than 750 or 800 miles without a swap unless there was ample time in the load for breaks. Panther, my current carrier, is a little more lenient with 900 miles or 16 hours, whichever comes first. Granted, Panther applies the rule hard and fast and uses no intelligence or common sense whatsoever in the decision making process, as they prefer to use theoretical worst-case scenarios, rather than the reality above, in determining how far someone can drive in a given amount of time. They aren't as interested in reducing the probability of a load being delivered late, they much prefer to eliminate the possibility of it being late, and in doing so they make some truly stupid decisions (like paying $300 for a cross-dock fee at a tow yard in the middle of the night on a load that doesn't even need to be swapped in the first place). But I digress.
Don't be stupid. It's not whether or not you can do something, but rather whether or not you should. Don't let a Dollar Sign Woody drain the blood from your brain and make you stupid. You have to pick up and deliver Safely, Legally, and On-Time. Gotta have all three all the time.
On all loads longer than 500 miles you want to be able to deliver it two hours early. A two hour window allows time for construction and other traffic delays, bad weather, missing an exit or taking a wrong turn, most can change a flat tire in an hour. On loads less than 500 miles a two hour windows isn't practical or necessary.
On loads that require a 5 hour break, you need to be able to build up enough time for the 5 hour break, plus that two hour window, otherwise you're cutting things too close and any of the above delays could make you late. A 950 mile run can be done in under 16 hours, but your 16 hour clock needs to start when you leave the shipper, not a minute sooner. Loads between 950 miles and 1300 miles are the sweet spot where they really and truly need to be swapped, because you cannot run those and take a 5 hour break and be on a pace to deliver the load two hours early. Loads greater than 1300 miles can comfortably be delivered with a 5 hour break and a two hour window.
Example, a 1200 mile run at 47 MPH is 25.53 hours. General rule of thumb is to add 15 minutes to the time for getting loaded, and then round up to the next half hour, so this load will generally be dispatched at 26 hours. Using the "650 miles @ 10.5 hours" guide above (double it and take off 100 miles and 2 hours), and that 1200 miles is going to take roughly 19 hours to run. Add 5 hours for the break and you're at 24 hours, which leaves the two hour window... except, you'll need to whack off 30 minutes for two fuel stops, leaving you one and a half hours to spare. If you need 3 fuel stops you're down to an hour and 15 minutes. That's a pretty tiny window to shoot for and leaves little room for error.
1250 miles and you really can get those two hours in, but it depends on routing, time of day, and other factors. At 1300 miles you can pretty much count on running that one comfortably, safely, and without much stress, getting the 5 hour break in and having a two hour window to play with if you need it.
You can disagree if you like, and you can go all "Ironman" all you want, but the above is reality for a professional cargo van driver. Again, yes, I know there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and not the norm. It's the people who think they are the Ironman exception to the norm who run between 950 and 1300 miles with no break that should scare the Hеll out of everyone on the road. Yes, it is a proven fact that most accidents happen in the first couple hours of service, but that data is garnered from truckers who have to log HoS and does not even include a data sampling base for those driving more than 11 or 12 hours.
Everybody is a good driver. Just ask them and they'll tell you. "I'm an excellent driver. Never had an accident, therefore I'm an excellent driver. Yeah. Yeah." They're all Rainman. Drunks will tell you they're not too drunk to drive, and tired and fatigued people will tell you they are neither tired nor fatigued.
The DOT doesn't have statistics on the accident rate beyond about 12 hours, but carriers with cargo vans who keep track of such things do. I've discussed it with those who keep track of these things, and seen the numbers from two different carriers (my former and my current carrier), and the numbers show, unambiguously, that the rate of cargo van accidents and incidents rises after a certain number of miles or hours between breaks.
Con-Way NOW, my former carrier would rarely let a cargo van go more than 750 or 800 miles without a swap unless there was ample time in the load for breaks. Panther, my current carrier, is a little more lenient with 900 miles or 16 hours, whichever comes first. Granted, Panther applies the rule hard and fast and uses no intelligence or common sense whatsoever in the decision making process, as they prefer to use theoretical worst-case scenarios, rather than the reality above, in determining how far someone can drive in a given amount of time. They aren't as interested in reducing the probability of a load being delivered late, they much prefer to eliminate the possibility of it being late, and in doing so they make some truly stupid decisions (like paying $300 for a cross-dock fee at a tow yard in the middle of the night on a load that doesn't even need to be swapped in the first place). But I digress.
Don't be stupid. It's not whether or not you can do something, but rather whether or not you should. Don't let a Dollar Sign Woody drain the blood from your brain and make you stupid. You have to pick up and deliver Safely, Legally, and On-Time. Gotta have all three all the time.