Taking offense at flags
- Thread starter LDB
- Start date
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paullud
Veteran Expediter
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This is his chance to be offended, let's see how he handles it. I'm hoping for a lot of *****
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Nope, not offended. Dang! I so wanted to be offended.
The facts of who did it and why they did it aren't mutually exclusive. It was all done in the context of a classic backlash swell of animosity racism over Emancipation.
The Forrest memorial in Memphis can be traced to a number of factors, most importantly, the economic downturn that the city faced in the period immediately following the war, and especially the yellow fever epidemic of 1878. The epidemic hit the white community especially hard and by 1900 blacks had risen to comprise over half of the city’s population. The elite white population that was lost during the epidemic was replaced mostly by an influx of rural whites who were even less racially tolerant than their urban neighbors.
The racial antagonism continued to increase in the first decade of the twentieth century. The Memphis Commercial Appeal published a daily cartoon entitled “Hambone’s Meditations” that featured a crude caricature of a black man named Hambone who spoke in stereotypical coarse southern black dialect. Created to entertain white Memphians with the “foibles” of black people, the cartoon reflected the everyday racial slurs of white towards blacks.
Racism was rampant in the nation in general, and in 1905 Thomas Dixon published his bestselling tribute to the Ku Klux Klan, The Clansmen. During a period that featured some of the worst racial atrocities in American history, the Klan became a powerful symbol of white supremacy, and in the midst of this resurgence of racism, is when Memphis chose to unveil its bronze equestrian memorial to Forrest.
First of all, the statue was not "created by KKK members as a tribute to it's founder". It was obviously conceived and financed by a large group of Memphis citizens and organizations in an effort to create a memorial to one of their Confederate War heroes. It's also doubtful that their intent was "an in-your-face reminder to blacks that they'd better behave themselves". More likely it was a response to their resentment of Emancipation (slavery was abolished in TN in 1865 before the Civil War ended) and to the treatment many Southerners received from Union soldiers during the war and carpetbaggers from the North during reconstruction. It was also a reflection of defiant Southern pride that was also part of the culture of the times, which of course included blatant racism that could be found all over the South and in many parts of the North as well.
That large group of Memphis citizens and organizations were either KKK members or of like mind. That's hardly new information, as it was contemporaneous reported unabashedly in the Memphis press. Read all about the exploits of Forrest and you'll he why he was, as you say, one of their Confederate War heroes. It certainly wasn't because late in his life he had a reversal on how to deal blacks and campaigned to educate them and incorporate them into society, that's for sure.
And that blatant racism that could be found all over the South and in many parts of the North as well (the North were amateurs when it came to racism and hanging blacks), included many, many in-your-face warnings and reminders to blacks. Most of the monuments across the South were erected during this period of heightened racism.
Forrest's monument was pure racism, and those who had it done didn't even pretend otherwise. And the monument has been a sore spot in that town ever since.
And that blatant racism that could be found all over the South and in many parts of the North as well (the North were amateurs when it came to racism and hanging blacks), included many, many in-your-face warnings and reminders to blacks. Most of the monuments across the South were erected during this period of heightened racism.
Forrest's monument was pure racism, and those who had it done didn't even pretend otherwise. And the monument has been a sore spot in that town ever since.
This is odd.
The primary reason the Confederate flag fell out of sight following the Civil War was the brutal Reconstruction imposed on the South. During this period, some if not all, of the Confederate states were placed under military occupation by Union troops. Reconstruction lasted generally from 1865-1877. Severe economic, social and political restrictions burdened the South for many years following the Civil War. Lincoln, in his wisdom, had planned to give the South an easy peace; but, following his assassination the Radical Republicans in the federal government chose to go hardcore in their quest for vengeance. The defeated Southerners were treated to every hardship and acts of spite by Unionists for many, many years. Unnecessarily so.
To say a bitterness took root in the hearts and minds of Southerners towards the occupying forces would be an understatement. Their cities, towns and farms destroyed in many cases- it wasn't enough to defeat them militarily-the Northerners wanted to reshape Southern culture in their own image. The South wasn't even allowed to choose its own political candidates. The Federal government chose who held office for a number of years. Deep resentments developed. After a generation or two had passed, the South slowly began to heal and reassert dominion of its distinct culture and social institutions. The brutality of the North was indelibly pressed into Southern memory. It became safe to display the Confederate flag at parades commemorating The Civil War and Confederate cemeteries. More than anything else, the Confederate flag came to symbolize regional pride and resistance to an overbearing central government, then and now.
To say a bitterness took root in the hearts and minds of Southerners towards the occupying forces would be an understatement. Their cities, towns and farms destroyed in many cases- it wasn't enough to defeat them militarily-the Northerners wanted to reshape Southern culture in their own image. The South wasn't even allowed to choose its own political candidates. The Federal government chose who held office for a number of years. Deep resentments developed. After a generation or two had passed, the South slowly began to heal and reassert dominion of its distinct culture and social institutions. The brutality of the North was indelibly pressed into Southern memory. It became safe to display the Confederate flag at parades commemorating The Civil War and Confederate cemeteries. More than anything else, the Confederate flag came to symbolize regional pride and resistance to an overbearing central government, then and now.
I guess we're just supposed to take your word as gospel that all those people were "KKK members or of like mind", but I'm not buying it. If you've got legitimate sources let's see them.
Granted he was a slave trader, plantation owner and at one time held the highest office in the KKK. He was also one of the most effective military officers of the civil war, and his theories of waging brutally aggressive tactics against his enemy was not much different than that of the Union's W.T. Sherman. He was a hometown war hero to many in Memphis. In any case, these monuments to confederate soldiers are all over the southern US and to claim their existence is based purely on racism is nonsense. Perhaps some municipalities will attempt to wipe them out, and in areas like Memphis where the population is mostly black the majority of the citizens there are entitled to their will to a certain extent. The efforts to disinter Forrest's remains and move the statue are currently being challenged in court. However, most of these monuments will stay where they are and sales of the confederate battle flag will likely increase over the next few months due to the knee-jerk reaction against the flag created by the media over the Charleston church shooting by a deranged little nut case. The confederate flag and the history behind it won't disappear just because some people find it offensive. Our country did away with slavery at a fairly early stage in our development, and had to fight a costly war to accomplish it. Six Americans died for every slave freed. Some other Western cultures followed our example, but in many others around the world slavery still exists to this day but nobody cares. I'll bet most high school or college graduates can't name one of them.
Well, that and the fact it was a defeated flag. It's not like the flag flew a whole lot prior to the Civil War. It was a flag created specifically for the war.
Oh, I agree, and like you said, Southerners aren't real fond of northerners to this day.
It is that, and to some people it may very well mean "more than anything else," but all of it is on the contextual foundation of resistance to an overbearing central government that wouldn't allow slavery and rampant brutal racism.
There's a reason southern blacks do not now, nor have they ever, embraced the Confederate flag for anything, much less as a symbol of regional pride and resistance to an overbearing central government.
No, you're not supposed to take my word for it, you're supposed to do your own research and educate yourself, particularly since whatever sources I present you will find something wrong with them in order to dismiss them. You always do. There are numerous newspaper articles of the day and plenty of books written at the time which all show the turn of the century racial climate of Memphis (which was really southwest TN, northern MS, and southeast AR) and of the South in general. One specific source would be Court Carney’s Journal of Southern History book, the essay in particular, “The Contested Image of Nathan Bedford Forres, (August 2001)" where those contemporaneous newspaper articles are referenced, with pictures of the articles and everything.
Based on pure racism? No one made that claim about all the monuments all over the South, it was made about a singular monument in Memphis. It is, nevertheless, interesting to note that most of those monuments all across the South were in fact erected during that same period of the racial climate of near-unfettered racism and racial brutality of blacks. But of course, in your mind such a widespread mindset didn't even exist, so there's that. Just like people who live in a world of religion, their religious mindset underscores not only everything they do, but how they view and treat others, the same holds true for racists living in a racist world, and the South during the 20 year spread around 1900 was an especially racist world with an especially racist mindset that affected everything people did. You can deny that all you want, but the history is still there regardless.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
It's a pity that some seem incapable of extrapolating that lesson to US foreign policy in more modern times ...
However stupid is as stupid does ...