Stop It!

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Hawk: totally agree on the importance of education - I sent my eldest to Montessori school, because I could afford it. Problem with the voucher system is the number of unscrupulous "schools", and the two tier effect of good (private & voucher) and bad (public) schools. Why not just focus all the effort on making public schools the best? If taxpayers demand it, it can happen. Identify the good public schools, and copy their success, no?
I also agree that welfare isn't for people who are disinclined to work, and I think the government has finally adopted that policy too - but the obstacle is still the lack of decent jobs. You know, the ones that pay enough to live on? How can anyone lift themselves from poverty when any job they can get pays too little to cover basic living expenses, let alone save money? In spite of all the tax incentives & abatements offered to companies for job creation the past 15 yrs, the availability of jobs just keeps declining steadily. And what is available is primarily part time - who can get ahead in that environment? (If your answer is to work 2 jobs, then you haven't tried combining the schedules of two employers, neither of whom is interested in accommodating your particular schedule - I have, and it's darn near impossible, no matter how motivated you are to make it work.)
We need a government focus on encouraging the creation of decent employment, as opposed to the past policies that threw money at whomever promised to create jobs, never mind how inadequate to the needs of the people working (part time hours, low pay, no benefit jobs). We also need a government focus on preparing folks for employment, through college (way too expensive right now, as I'm learning, with my daughter in her freshman year:eek: ) or vocational schools - not everyone is college material. We need skilled tradespeople, too - but education is just priced out of reach for too many folks.
Poor people stay poor in most cases because the whole structure of our society rewards those who have money, and penalizes those who don't. Not only does it take money to make money, it also takes money to SAVE money, ya know?
PS the justification you offer for bailing out AIG is just pitiful - if there aren't any other insurers in that field, isn't that a great opportunity for someone to create one? Rewarding greed and inefficiency is bad public policy, period.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"Not Beat but Whipped over 2 to 1 in popular votes."

Obama won the popular vote by 2 to 1? Really? Please tell me that you don't actually believe that.


"And delegates."

Delegates? Delegates to what? In a general election? Ah, OK. That explains the whole obtuse "2 to 1 margin" thing, 'cause if you believe Obama won any delegates, then you probably do believe he won the popular vote by a 2 to 1 margin.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Nice cut and run tactic, Dabus. Calling us racists, then running like the lib you are. Talk about a sore winner! I won't waste my time debating what you last posted.

Cheri... jobs aren't made to work around our lives. You and I are lucky, in that we ARE our own bosses. Everyone who has an excuse why they can't find a job, I can come up with one more why they aren't allowing themselves to find work. The biggest one... move to where the jobs are. Another one... do what other ppl aren't willing to do.

My niece and her bf are moving up to MI from NC. She tells us to find him a job. I asked about his driving record. "Well... he was drinking before he turned 21, and got pulled over. It's not exactly a DUI..." Sorry... no insurance company will want him driving a truck they cover. I'll tell her to have him sign up with temp agencies. It doesn't help when ppl limit themselves, either by action or just "I don't wanna do that!" If they get put onto welfare, isn't that rewarding irresponsibility?

You said about lifting themselves out of poverty, but no jobs pay a living wage. Did they try Montana and Wyoming? I hear there are some good $30/hr jobs out there in oil. To me, if they aren't trying all options, they aren't trying enough.

Why does the government have to find ways of creating decent employment? That's not a function of government in the USA. Says so right in the Constitution. Better yet, why doesn't the government just employ them? Oh... forgot. They do. If a good chunk of them were hired anywhere else, they'd be fired if they treated the customers the way they do.

Everyone has excuses.

Don't have money? Ever think of taking a couple of financial classes, rather than liberal arts in school? AHH!!! That's another thing! Public schools don't teach kids about the stock market. They don't teach about savings and loans. They don't prepare for real life! No wonder these kids don't know jack; they can't even balance a check book!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They also no longer teach reading, writing and arithmatic. I cannot even fathom graduating a kid that can't read. I guess self-esteem is more important that reading and writing. Tell you one things, the Nuns at St. Cyp's never let that happen.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cheri, there is no such thing as a stupid race. All people are capable of whatever they put thier minds too. An example. My grand-father. Came over to this country at 3 years old. His parents learned English. Due to the economic times he had to go into the coal mines at 10 years old and never even grade school. (neither did my dad for the same reasons) He still taught himself math through calculas. Learned to make his own false teeth. Put indoor plumbing into his house at age 60. He was not a plumber, he was a painter for most of his life. The difference between then and now? He was not taught that he was being held back by sociaty. He was no given hand outs in hard times. He just did it. He was not a genius, just a man who put his spare time and mind to work. Anyone can do it. Layoutshooter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh yea, he also taught himself script writing and made money engraving party invitations for the local coal barrins. He taught himself how to re-wind generators and did that to earn money during the depression. He taught himself how to work a metal lathe, made tools and auto parts for neighbors. Nothing is impossible if one applies themselfs. Layoutshooter
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
"Move to where the jobs are", huh? Well, I'm sure glad my sister finally found a job, nearly a year after the insurance conglomerate where she'd worked for more than 10 years decided to outsource everyone - she's an excellent office manager, but I don't think the oilfields of Montana would work for her, ya know? :rolleyes:
The government should interest itself in encouraging decent jobs for the same reason it encourages marriage: it helps to assure a stable and healthy society. (Not to mention a steady input of taxes).
I guess the difference is that I see people who have a work ethic, and want to work, and get pretty discouraged after months of nothing but part time, low wage, no benefit jobs, when they've got a family to support - especially when they're out of work through no fault of their own. I repeat: when's the last time you looked for a job?
LOS: my dad was much like that: could do almost anything that needed done - but that doesn't mean everyone is capable of the same. (Reread the post about my nephew, and tell me he could be like that - he just can't.) Some lack the physical abilities, and some the mental abilities - you can't say everyone should, because one can.
It's so easy to dismiss people as lazy, isn't it? It's easy, but it's not the reality I see - not even close.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
office managers are in much need as well in the oil fields and the mines of Wyoming....someones gotta keep them roughnecks in line......$10 bucks an hour is gotta be worth 30 back east....you can a 3 bedroom house out here for under 40,000....it's all relative....
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"Cheri, there is no such thing as a stupid race"

Obviously, you've never seen the Special Olympics.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
"Cheri, there is no such thing as a stupid race"

Obviously, you've never seen the Special Olympics.


Turtle....I'd have to say your comment puts you in that race..

Mentally challenged people are not stupid by choice...unlike others that we know.....your comment was insensitive...:(
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
So your reply is, in effect, to call me stupid? Don't preach tolerance and sensitivity while exhibiting neither while doing it.

Yes, of course it was insensitive. It's about as politically INcorrect as you can get. It's also a joke, and if you can get by the insensitivity of it all, it's a funny one. It's funny because it's stupid. There are very few 'hands off" topics that cannot be joked about, in my opinion, including this one. That's the problem with politically correct speech, it's an attempt at thought control, and it squashes free thought and free speech.

Would I look at a retarded kid (ooops, sorry, developmentally challenged) and make that joke? No, of course not, 'cause that's not funny because it becomes personal and ridiculing. My joke up there was about as impersonal as it can get, yet people go nuts over some types of jokes, often manufacturing a reason to do so. Even the term "developmentally challenged" is over-the-top political correctness for the express purpose of victimizing those who are mentally retarded, while at the same time trying to de-victimize them. It's silly. And it's dangerous.

Aristotle wrote that an ugliness that does not disgust is fundamental to humor. There's nothing fundamentally disgusting about the Special Olympics, racing, or being stupid. It's the politically correct thought, that the politically correct language has created, which makes it disgusting to those who have been conditioned to be overly insensitive to it. Incongruity is also another facet that is fundamental to humor, as well as is the turning of a phrase or word to mean something else. The whole notion of abruptly, and without warning, turning the meaning of "race" as it has been used in his thread into a Special Olympics foot race also has the side effect of being incongruent. That joke is dripping with funny, yet why is it looked upon as insensitive and disgusting?

Politically correct speech is why. Language is a powerful thing. It is a guide to social reality, and influences our world view, while powerfully conditioning all our thinking about social problems and processes. When language changes, it is usually in response to cultural changes. In the case of politically correct speech, it's the other way around. Language's true purpose is to serve as a bridge, as a tool for people to communicate with and understand each other. So far as language reform enhancing sensitivity and understanding, that's great, but when the reform itself becomes repressive it's time to step back and reassess. Political correctness in language is at this juncture, and many people recognize it as a problem.

When taken to the extreme, which is where it is getting very close to now, and in some circles it's already there (universities, workplaces, ert.) politically correct speech is Cultural Marxism, pure and simple, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy just as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance. It's very hard to preach free speech when you're intolerant of actual free speech. Even the term Politically Correct has a politically correct term, it's Culturally Sensitive and Appropriately Inclusive.

That means I'm not fat, but rather, "I'm a person of size." There ya go. Everyone is a size, so a "person of size" is inclusive, not exclusive, no one gets singled out. No fat jokes, please, let's only have person of size jokes. "Hey, hey, hey! It's Person of Size Albert!"

I know a guy who is vertically challenged, horizontally gifted, follicularly independent, and cosmetically aesthetically exiguous. It's a beautiful thing.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I knew there was an explaination....I just awoke and seen that and said...wow thats not like Turtle....and my thinking stopped there...I didn't look deeper into your thinking process...just what appeared on the surface.....No I didn't mean you are stupid...looking back in the thread I see your connection to the politacal correctness crap.... sometimes you get real deep in your thinking....and us "thought Challenged" people can't go there....

No foul intended....
 
R

rangell218

Guest
i figure everyone thats is going out of the way to convince people that obama will change everything are the same ones that did the same thing with bush, so set back and wait and get what you got comming
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I don't have a problem of how Bush handled 911. I'm glad he won both elections, as the two going up against him would've... nevermind. However, if McCain had won the primaries in 2000, we wouldn't have had McCain/Feingold, McCain/Leiberman, and McCain/Kennedy. He probably would've done the same as Bush as president, yet that would've been one less Rhino in the Senate telling conservatives "FU" on the floor.

Nothing good happened in this election. We didn't even get rid of McCain. He'll still be in the Senate, sucking up to the other side.

I'm tired of the Republican party being a wuss magnet. We need a new party that'll attract the true conservatives, who aren't afraid to stick the Constitution in a lib's face and say "SHOW ME!"
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Not a problem, OVM. No foul taken. I knew what I was doing when I posted it, which is why I did so without so much as a token :)

There's an insanely great unbelievably politically incorrect joke that I may post here one of these days. It would really be pushing the envelope, tho. It covers the three most of the basics of humor; it appeals to the emotions, similar to reality but not real, and surprise, contradiction and paradox. There's even some hyperbole, metaphor, incongruity, absurdity, huge absurdity, and because it's a simple one-liner set-up for the punchline, the timing always works.

The joke works, it's absolutely funny, and it's funny on many levels, politically, culturally and philosophically, but what's more interesting is the reactions people have when they read or hear it. The first inclination is to bust out laughing, but almost as quickly, thanks to the thought control of politically correctness, there's a, "Should I laugh at this...out loud?"
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Turtle....your absolutely correct..when I first read your post I snickered at first and the for some reason felt quilty for doing so...:rolleyes:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I moved 5 times, the first was from Michigan to England. I had a family to support, I did it on my own talents. No sucking off the government t*t. I am proud of my life. I upheld my responsibilties. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I moved 5 times, the first was from Michigan to England. I had a family to support, I did it on my own talents. No sucking off the government t*t. I am proud of my life. I upheld my responsibilties. Layoutshooter

your a stand up guy in a sit down world.....;)
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Hey Turtle? I thought it was funny - but then, I listen to XM Comedy a lot and laugh at most of that, too. It's real hard to respect sacred cows when you love hamburgers & steak, ain't it? ;)
 
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