You know whats humorous to me? I really reflect a mind set here that is not nearly as off the charts as most of my neighbors and friends. I tone it way down so Leo allows me to stay here. Greg,I cannot change the Carter years,or the Clinton years or any of the ancient history you continualy dredge up (it's getting really old).
I bring carter up because of the blame you lay on Bush for Iraq. If you can't figure out what we are doing there and only see the death and destruction in this very small piece of the conflict, then Carter needs to be brought in to the picture to remind you that it was he that actually caused all of this in the first place. Tired or not, facts are facts and keeping your head in the sand doesn't help anyone, especially you.
Again I said this over and over Andy, You Do NOT understand the people. You Do NOT get the way they look at what makes an enemy and what makes a weak animal/country. We can not and will never derive any strength and respect through compassion with any of them, it has to be done with strength and without the wishy washy idiots over hear opening their mouths. Gates is a perfect example, he needs to shut his mouth about international affairs and stick with making sure we are prepared.
There are a lot of reasons for being in Iraq, one is to screw with Iran. These Iranian people, not the government already sees what is going on here in the US and over in Iraq and wants to see it happen in Iran. They are patient and they have a strong pride about their country, it's history and the people which means they will fight if we attack them but if they continue to see what is happening in Iraq and other places while helping them inside the country, they will fight for a change there and this is why we are there - to DEFUSE the government of Iran INTERNALLY. It only makes sense to do this, while we can change the government of Iraq at the same time.
However, if you really want to bring it up,it's really no different to mke then the Vietnam war. I took strong a position it was wrong,took to the streets,went to jail for a while,and helped end the ****ed thing.I was not doing anything but being a good American who was fed up with an unjust war that happened to take the lives of 50,000 of my generations best.I don't care who started it,me and my friends ended it. Power to the people.
First I have to reaffirm that I don't want to see anyone go off to war, I could not do much about that war and feel for everyone who lost their lives or were touched by the war. But I understand more of the behind the scenes things that happen then I did when I was around then. Meeting one key player in the war changed my attitude about him and his involvement, and especially about his apologizes for what deaths he caused.
The fact is, and it comes from the North Vietnamese, the protesting in this country helped them, it prolonged the war because they were ready to give up and when the campui(sp?) erupted, they continued to fight using the propaganda that these 'protesters' handed them. I know a few POWs and they still remember the cr*p used to bring down their moral - it was the beginning of my education on propaganda.
Wasn't it unjust because of the democrats who wanted to get involved, both Kennedys, LBJ, MacNamara and others all were involved on the dems' side of the aisle? Or was it with escalating the war in the first place? You seem to only remember that the republicans were bad during that time, right?
But then out of those questions arise another, if the war was unjust, and the people involved with it were democrats, why are you supporting the democrats now? It would only make sense that the party that started all of this is the party that you should shun, right?
AND another question that comes to mind is even if Nixon did the Watergate shuffle, did you also scream that he inherited an unjust war when he was elected in '68? It seems odd that many scream about Obama inheriting Bush's mess but it seems odd that many of these same people didn't use that excuse for Nixon.
Power to the People?
Yea sure Andy.
We have come so far from a good country to the depths of the abyss because of the power that was removed from the people using the same cr*p from the '60s. I remember the revolution in the air, I remember the attitudes but they were clueless then as they are still now. There is an absolute sad fact tied to the term
Power to the People, a twisted fact - before the 60's and the coming of age stuff, the people held the real power, many held their representatives accountable and even the president through their power. Since that time, a shift was made thanks to the people who believed in that
Power to the People and now it is the parties who hold the power, the corrupt organizations that hold the power, not the people, thanks man... I really appreciate the voter fraud and cheating my vote, the increase of my taxes to cover things like the invasion from the south and the subjugation of the people through half wit social programs like SCHIP... thanks man.
My problem with w is well documented on this forum. It was the present I had a problem with the last 8 years.It was not the ancient past, and it needed to end in 2004.You were a supporter for most of these years and viewed my position and opinion as somehow radical and out of step. I used the same tactics I used to help end the war,get out and make some noise.Pi** a few people off and excerise my right to do so.In 25 years I hope to be old and wise and not concerned about w and his gang of merry men and women. I think we can put Carter to bed Greg,and in a few years,after Obama straightens things out (next year at this time) I will lose some of my anger and utter distain for w and those that helped him and those that voted twice for him.
Well I am not happy with Bush either and a lot of others are not happy with him. I said there is one thing that you can impeach him on and it will stick - the border. I would even join you in protesting against him on that, maybe even pay your way to DC. But seeing that it is an issue for your buds and Nancy to allow the border to be wide open, the shift is something that can't be done impeaching him on Iraq.
Since 2000, we have heard so much hate about the man and the people governed this country and see that it still continues today. If anything, I can't see anyone like you not letting go of it because of your deep hatred for the man. I honestly think it goes to the root of the problems many of your type have, when you lose it you can't handle it.
AND Andy I got to tell you that I can not see Obama doing anything positive other making people happy and glee over confirming their hatred, verifying that they are justified for the last 10 years of thier lives being a mess because of their inability to understand anything beyond the defeat in 2000. It is sad when you think about it, here is a man that is selling you and I out, but we can't come together to actually stop it because there is too much hate that is acting like a barrier between us and the hate isn't from my side of the fence. I want to see a change from the inside, like a serious change of my senators and congressman but you want to dwell on the past with Bush. You get what I'm saying?
Until then,I guess I'm still that old 60's radical fightn' the good battle for truth,justice and the American way. Sorry if it bores you.
No it doesn't bore me, it is great to have you scream all of this because you are right to fight for the right things but you can't do it with hate and that seems to be what many are using to base their fight on, hating the person, you know what I mean?
