Your Thoughts About Going to California?

ATeam · Feb 21, 2009

broker said:
California is not in a world of its own, when talking about expediting loads going in or out.

That is true, IF you ignore the distance California is located from reliable freight lanes (to the extent that reliable freight lanes exist).

I think most expediters will agree that more expedited freight is found east of the Mississippi River and north of I-20. Texas is closer to that area than California. Assuming both states have slow freight at the moment and a bunch of trucks stacked up, would not a load going to Texas be the better choice than one going to California, especially if the loads pay little more than breakeven to get you there?

Diane and I have watched expediters snap up California-bound loads at prices that leave us wondering why they even bother. Are people getting so desperate for the cash needed to make their next truck or house payment that the "big" paycheck is worth running at breakeven or worse? Does the emotional need to stop sitting and haul something at any price overcome the common sense of refusing loads that don't pay?

Yes, there is room for any number of opinions in expediting (which is good news for me, since I have changed my mind about California and may change my mind again). But the numbers are less forgiving.

It does not matter what you believe or do not believe. If your money is flowing out faster than it is flowing in, you are doomed, even if you are in it for the camping trip. Expediting is a business. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about being profitable or not.

Choose California expedited freight opportunities with great care if you want to survive in this business in these times.

broker · Feb 21, 2009

ATeam, you are a very good example.
You folks are making out much better than the average Expeditor. Does this mean we should copy everything that you do or have done?
That would not be good business practice, would it?

Example:
You basicly sold the farm to get where you are today.
Should every newbie do this, before taking the plunge?

The one thing I do when I read something ATeam posts, is listen to them. They have been profitable at this.
What I will not do is copy everything they do or suggest.
What works for them, does not mean it will always work for me.
What they have done, is opened my eyes to new ideas about how I might add what they have done to my business practice.
A couple have worked out well (thank you ATeam)

However, to stay out of California is not one of them.
I know for a fact some are doing very well going into the Golden state, just as I know for fact some are not.
Just like Texas, things will always change.
BIG JOHN

pjjjjj · Feb 21, 2009

It does help to follow what successful, content expediters are saying, vs unsuccessful, whining ones.
That said, ATeam didn't say to stay out of CA, he advised the decision needs to be weighed before accepting a load in. Where it may have been a no-brainer to say yes in the past, at this time all considerations should be considered.

layoutshooter · Feb 21, 2009

We will run anywhere anytime if it makes a profit. We take deadheading out of an area into that equation. If California or Canada regulates us to the point that we can't make a profit we won't go. Layoutshooter

broker · Feb 21, 2009

pjjjj,
To follow what someone else does, will not give the same results for everyone
.
Again, would you sell everything you worked all your life for, to start a business you have never been in before, just because someone else did and it worked out great for them?
ATeam said this was not a sacrifce for them.
Do you think everyone would feel the same?

I am debating with ATeam, on advice they are giving about taking freight into California.
So far, I do not see anything brought up, that could not be said about most other areas, including Canada.

Example;
ATeam stated they see less frieght going in and out of California. Could that not be said about any state?
I gave Texas as an example.
Again, ATeam talked of the large numbers of Expediting trucks showing up and sitting in California. Right now, there are over 30 trucks from my company alone, sitting within 40 miles of each other, in another state.
ATeam stated they would go into California if the money was right. Same song I have been singing, would you not take a load into any state "if the money was right"?
After all the talk about no frieght in California, ATeam states, California is a good market for frieght.
ATeam states that shipping goods in and out of California should pay a higher rate. Can that not be said about Canada or some other states as well?

See, here is my issue.
To single out California, like it is somehow much worse than all other states and Canada, is not a correct opinion, in my opinion

I can see some might be thinking I have an issue with ATeam. Just the opposite.
I feel like myself, others listen with great interest, to what ATeam has to offer for advice. They are profitable and maybe we can learn a thing or two from them.
However, to just do what they suggest or are doing, could be a road for failure.

If it was that easy (copy everything ATeam does) everyone would be doing it.

BIG JOHN

pjjjjj · Feb 21, 2009

Again Broker, with all due respect, your listening ears aren't working very well today

I did not recommend to do what someone else does. Not at all.

What I said was:

It does help to follow what successful, content expediters are saying, vs unsuccessful, whining ones.

Meaning, it is good to listen, learn, evaluate, what is said by the successful in this industry, and not so much by the ones that are not. Weigh the info for yourself, keep what makes sense for you and discard the rest; or put it away for a rainy day to be called upon when it does make sense.

And again, I will reiterate what I said before, which was:

ATeam didn't say to stay out of CA, he advised the decision needs to be weighed before accepting a load in. Where it may have been a no-brainer to say yes in the past, at this time all considerations should be considered.

Not that this is new rocket science math or anything. Layoutshooter said the same thing. Look at all aspects of profitability, or potential lack of it, on all loads going anywhere, and only do what makes sense for you. ATeam was just noting that when it comes to California, it's a lot longer journey to make a mistake on. Take a run from MI to OH and end up taking a beating, many can live with that, even in these times of discounted freight rates. California, not so much.

I don't think you are knocking ATeam, and nor does he need defending. I think you're being sensitive about a place you hung your hat in your past. And that's understandable too.

layoutshooter · Feb 21, 2009

Yep, every load is a seperate business decision. Some easier than other of course but eveyone must be taken on it's own value. The Pay Per Mile is NOT the only thing that must be considered. Example: We once turned down a load that paid well over $2.00 PPM and then right away took one that paid a bit over $1.75. The $2PPM was very heavy, very cold reefer run going out to "Who-Knows-Where Montana". The $1.75 load was much lighter, not even reefer and going to an area that we know has good freight out. There is also the WOW factor for a load, like the Alaska run or the St. Johns Newfoundland run. They were just plain cool and we ran them not only for profit, which we made, but just to go there because we had never seen those places. We might have made more on other shorter runs with less deadhead out but the memories that you aquire in this business are worth much. It is very possible in this climate of over regulation that certian areas like California or Canada that are getting really carried away might become totally un-profitable for us to run some day. Not there yet but I can read writting on the wall pretty well. layoutshooter

broker · Feb 21, 2009

OK, I can see I'm going to like posting on here, so I want you all to know my character better, so no misunderstandings down the road.

In a nut shell. I respect others opinions and do not believe in personal attacks.
I do not get even. So, if you bash me, don't expect to see a come back. I'm not a child and will just ignore the attack.

I have strong Christian beliefs along with old fashion morals.

I have divided my residents between California, Iowa and Florida.
No favorites.

Returned not too long ago from spending time working in a former Soviet Union country. Lived alone, no other Americans to be found.
Survived mostly off boiled horse meat and fish soup. Could only take showers during certain time periods each day (in my apartment) etc.

I'm very tough skinned, done all that and been there.

Trucking has been a huge part of my life.

When I debate an issue (never argue) I never feel that person has to "defend" their opinion. Maybe try and help me understand more where they are coming from.
I will not always change my mind and see your point of view. I can however at times say I am wrong or you have a better idea.

When it becomes apparent we both think we are correct, end of debate.

Kathy will remain off EO, her skin is not as tough.

Back to the issue at hand.
I have read nothing to change how I felt this topic was presented. That somehow California is the worst state to bring frieght into and it has the worst run government, DOT, etc.
Nothing positive said about the state. (original post)
I tried to give just one example (Texas) where things are just as bad, at times.
I could give tons of examples where a certain state is not profitable due to road conditions and the toll it will take on your truck.
I could tell you what states not to buy fuel in the winter from, as you could suffer the dreaded tank freeze.
That was my point. You never have the same set of circumstances for each run.
Today Texas could be a place I never want to leave. Tomorrow I swear (to myself) I'll never return.

Sensitive about California?
Not a chance.
I love this country called America, period.

Most of all, I enjoy reading and sharing opinions with fellow Expeditiers.
We have (my opinion) all made some type of sacrifice to do this.
I respect all of you for this commitment.
Are we not the real last American Cowboy (and girl)?

BIG JOHN

layoutshooter · Feb 21, 2009

I was not bashing you or California. I was just stating how it is. If they or any state pass laws that make running there un-profitable we will not longer run there. I kinda feel that what CARB wants to do is not legal but I could be wrong on that. I really don't understand how my APU might not be legal there but if a RV had the exact same one it would be. That is not bashing in my book. Layoutshooter

davekc · Feb 21, 2009

Doggie Daddy said:
We were out in Socal about a week ago,and we too were shocked to find 22 D units in the LA and Ontario express centers ahead of us. Needless to say, when they offered us the cheap paying relocation back east we jumped on it just to get back to the freight lanes.

That could change my mind. 22 trucks and then being 23

Ok.....that addresses that idea of whether it is beneficial to broker loads or not.
But yes, we still go out there, but not go and then sit that long. That would take the profit out of it. We as others turn out of there pretty quickly.

jackdixon_2000 · Feb 21, 2009

Hello all, been a long time since I have posted but I am still out here, runnin the west coast. While it is true the first few weeks of Feb were a bit slow I have seen a marked increase in runs in the last week.
As far as getting nervous about seeing 20 trucks on the LA and Ont boards, it depends on what time of day you are looking.
For example,this Friday there were 24 C D and E loads dispatched off the Los and Ont centers (Any Fedex driver can confirm that checking the VRU) and as of this moment (Saturday night)there is 1 C and 2 D's available in Los Angeles. So it is all about how you spin the information. Last Thursday and friday there were at least 10 relocations from the west coast back going back east. But this week I only know of one relocation, and it was from Seattle.
ps I just noticed my last login was 8/8/2007 but I been lurkin

davekc · Feb 21, 2009

Wow...it has been awhile since you have been on here.

ATeam · Feb 21, 2009

jackdixon_2000 said:
While it is true the first few weeks of Feb were a bit slow I have seen a marked increase in runs in the last week.

This has been a good week for us too. For the first time in a long time, we have had three good runs, one after another. One week does not a trend make, but it feels good to be running like we did before.

I spoke above about carefully considering loads going to California. Jack's post illustrates the point. Contrast Jack's post with Doggie Daddy's post above. Lately, you don't know what to expect out of California, and that is different than it was before (at least for us).

If there is a chance that you might be offered a run into California, the offer can be better considered if you know ahead of time what the current truck count is in the relevant express centers. With our carrier, VRU can be put to very good use in that regard.

TeamCaffee · Feb 22, 2009

jackdixon_2000 said:
Hello all, been a long time since I have posted but I am still out here, runnin the west coast. While it is true the first few weeks of Feb were a bit slow I have seen a marked increase in runs in the last week.
As far as getting nervous about seeing 20 trucks on the LA and Ont boards, it depends on what time of day you are looking.
For example,this Friday there were 24 C D and E loads dispatched off the Los and Ont centers (Any Fedex driver can confirm that checking the VRU) and as of this moment (Saturday night)there is 1 C and 2 D's available in Los Angeles. So it is all about how you spin the information. Last Thursday and friday there were at least 10 relocations from the west coast back going back east. But this week I only know of one relocation, and it was from Seattle.
ps I just noticed my last login was 8/8/2007 but I been lurkin

Good to see you post again Jack as you always have very good information!
As an Express truck California is always a gamble we have done great or with others in the past week took the relocate back east as we also saw the board counts. We enjoyed the drive going both ways. When we get our next offer to the west coast if it pays enough we will take it and hope for the best. Both of us really enjoy driving on the west coast even in the winter.

Doggie Daddy · Feb 22, 2009

ATeam said:
If there is a chance that you might be offered a run into California, the offer can be better considered if you know ahead of time what the current truck count is in the relevant express centers. With our carrier, VRU can be put to very good use in that regard.

The problem with that is that you don't know when you will be offered a CA load. After you get the load offer,you barely have time to check the additional requirements and the pay.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 22, 2009

That might be something to do every morning, then. Check areas you are skeptical about, and make a mental or written note on how many trucks, how long they've been waiting, and how many loads. When you get beeped with that load, you can make an instant decision.

nightcreacher · Feb 22, 2009

VRU could show any express center at the time of your getting your load or being empty,but by the time you get to that location,there may be 10 more trucks there and 2 might have under 75's.So If you decide to take any load,no matter where it goes,checking for number of vehicles at an express center is useless.What that load needs to do, is pay you enough money that you can deliver it, and then go to the express center of your likeing, whether selected by planning or not.

nightcreacher · Feb 22, 2009

Listen,in most cases a load to California,Oregon,Washington states from the east coast will pay equal to a weeks running.If you get that so called home run,and get loaded back right away,your going to smile all the way home.But, be prepared,this doesnt happen often,Be ready to take intra state loads till you find one going east,and hope that east bound load doesnt happen, while you are running north and south.Usually, the east bound loads are on thursday and friday.You can make out very well just runing north and south,'til your ready to go home.

davekc · Feb 22, 2009

Might be of value to know how long the trucks there have been sitting. I would look at that more than the high truck amounts.
As Steve mentioned, those numbers can change quickly.
If in our case I see trucks sitting for a extended periods of time, I am looking for a load long before we ever get there.
Although 20 some units seems pretty high regardless of the carrier. We had a truck out there recently and many had been there several weeks with no freight. But of course, we don't know if they are turning freight away because it doesn't return east. As Steve mentioned, there is some north/south stuff that actually pays pretty decent.