why are owners so crooked

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
With my boys it goes in one ear and out the other when, I tell them to get a lawyer to look it over they still don't," because it costs to much." So i have had to add "if you can't afford a lawyer to look at it you can't afford what ever the contract says" to the mantra list of parental advice. So I'm guessing allot of the newer drivers are not unlike my sons.
 
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pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Sounds like a business opportunity! A DAC on owners! Its easy for companies to check on us...someone (or perhaps EO) needs to start a clearing house for drivers to check on owners. Using the federal guidelines for disclosure as in criminal and credit reports, EO can provide a great service to its suscribers under a seperate division...how about EO an official clearing house to help prevent abuse by owners similar to DAC which of course helps prevents abuse of drivers...

I don't think it would probably be much good to get criminal and credit reports, or for EO to probably become involved, but the concept itself isn't a bad idea!

Over here there is a 'Tenants Act', which is really geared to favor the tenant, protecting them from unscrupulous landlords.. but in return it leaves the landlord without many rights in protecting HIMself from unscrupulous tenants.

A bunch of Landlords got together and started a non-profit association, and they keep a list of really-bad-egg-tenants, which is available only to their members. To protect themselves from liability, they probably don't call the list that, and it's not advertised at all. Just when a landlord runs into too much red tape with tenants' rights, they seem to reach out and come across this valuable resource.

IF someone were willing to spearhead such an initiative, it would probably be a great resource. But there again, the drivers would have to know it even existed, and that can only happen through educating themselves on how to protect themselves.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
It is funny, however, when you have been there and been abused by a truck owner it becomes not quite as funny. I understand this poster as we also were abused by a truck owner. The first truck owner we drove for still owes us somewhere around 9000.00.

My apologies for seeing the above as funny. I know it's not funny at all. It's disgusting. And especially in a case like yours, nothing personal, it's also disgusting that you aren't pursuing it. The only way it can begin to change, is if the victims are willing to follow it through. The owners like that will then have to start thinking twice about pulling that crap.

Do you guys have something like 'Small Claims Court' over there? Here it costs a minimal amount of money, like $75, you get paperwork from the court to fill in, state your case, submit it, and it goes from there. It might need one trip to court. My guess is that some of these freaks might just pay up when they see a legal proceeding arrive in the mail, and that court visit might not even be necessary. Sure it's work, but isn't it worth it for nine thousand BUCKS???
 

wellarmed

Not a Member
I know its the sameol story.. your going to work for a new owner and you have asked all the question you think you should have asked. after the class and your going to sign the contract and he says oh sorry i kinda lied about what i was going to pay you 1st red flag and he knows he has you stuck your far away from home and no other way home. so you ride it out and look for another owner. but while working for him your money is not right always short from the number you have figured. and now i have found another owner he refused to pay me the remaining 1000 bucks hes owes me and he dragging his feet about releasing me so i can work for another owner. so now i have no money coming in and i can't look for another owner until he releases me. so i'm stuck at home.

What is this,he hasn't released me? Never heard that one,are you like chained up or something,if he has not payed you he is in breech of contract,I'm just guessing or hopeing somewhere in the onesided contract you signed it said he was going to pay you:confused:If you would like I may be able to point you in the direction of an honest fleet owner but you must be a husband and wife team or long standing couple,send PM if interested.
 

Yesteryear

Expert Expediter
(Decided to hang around here in Laredo a little while longer, T-State say their bidding on some loads)

Ok, how can I put this to make you honest owners understand what I am saying. (My hubby is always telling me I am not good at explaining things but I am going to try.) I think it is probably the same with most of us older drivers so let me tell it like this.

Ok, I put over 20 years in at a beauty salon, my husband put over 20 years in at a police department. Now, we are getting older, the kid is old enough to be left alone, heehee, so we start talking of doing something different. Now, him being a cop and me being a beautician we know absolutely nothing about the trucking industry. But hey, ya know, sounds like it might be a fun interesting thing to do, after-all we both put in our time in our industry, now it is time for some fun see some new exciting places. With me so far?

Ok, now we don't know expediting is different from 'trucking' so we go online and type in 'trucking companies' and 'how to be a truck driver'. All these different trucking companies come up with schools for cdls ect. So for a while we are just 'thinking' about becoming truck drivers and are reading about cdl training, different trucking companies like Werner, JB Hunt, Schneider, ect.

Well then we run across this one web site that offers to 'hook' drivers up with both a CDL school and a company to drive for. So my hubby fills in the info and hits 'submit'. Right away we start getting phone calls from different recruiters. Werner was the first caller we received, asked them to send us all of their info and went online to see what we could find out about them.

Then we get a call from one that they are a recruiter with PantherII and that we would only need a class b cdl, well I already had a class b cdl for many years as I drove a school bus part time when my son was little in grade school. Would drive in the morning, go to the salon, then drive again in the afternoon and then go back to the salon. So I could drive for this PantherII company and not even have to spend any money to do it. GREAT! Typed in PantherII to try to check the company out.

See, what I mean? This is who we thought we were driving for. So we check them out. Everything looked great so we decide, YEA, LET'S GO FOR IT! :D So then this girl contacts us with all the information of were we were to go in Indiana and how we would be going through their orientation and asked if we had cdls. We told them I did but hubby didn't. So she say's no problem they would help him obtain the proper cdl. Gives us direction on how to get there and a start date. So now, for now we think we are going to the orientation for PantherII, still not understanding we are actually going to orientation of a fleet owner.

See, no one explained until after we had left our jobs behind and spent all the money to go to orientation, relocated so we would be in the 'freight line' as we were instructed to do, ect that we would not actually be working for PantherII, we would be working for this other company that has a fleet of trucks. Hmmmm, so now, here we are, we have left our jobs, relocated, are miles from home all on the wrong information.

So, we at least make an effort to check them out. They have an awesome website, show only top notch equipment, and have wonderful testimony from drivers posted, so we think 'well ok, guess it will be ok'. Course if it isn't it's really too late now anyway. lol We've already spent thousands of dollars on this little adventure.

So we go ahead and go through their orientation, at which no contract was ever presented until the very last day of orientation. See, we thought we had 'checked' it out. We thought we had done our homework. But since we did not know the industry or how things work with it we did not check out the correct thing.

As for sitting around in a truck stop, a normal person that has no experience with trucking and does not know the industry doesn't even know you can sit around in a truck stop. My gosh, I had never even heard of showering at a truck stop or driver areas ect. So no, I definitely had never heard of EO. By the time you learn about truck stops and EO you've already been burned.

Our first clue something was wrong was when we were given a really really bad truck, no air conditioning, leaked horribly in the rain, was a little cat engine couldn't make 20 mph on the hills in the Virginias, diffinately not as described on the second companies web site. Then when we started getting negative pay checks after running 3000 miles in a week, one week we ran from coast to coast and ran up over 5000 miles that week, our take, under 1000.00. This is when we started to figure out something was wrong. lol So ya see, it is easy for new drivers to get 'taken'. It is amusing when we look back now at how gullible we were, but it definately was not amusing at the time. Am I getting across what I'm trying to say here? :cool:

It isn't hard for a dishonest truck owner to take advantage of new drivers who know nothing about the industry.
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I understand where you are coming from, but you made the largest critical error that I mentioned earlier. Reputation.
Believe me, I am not trying to beat up on you.
Had you talked to actual current and past drivers whether you knew anything about trucking, I think you might have seen a different picture. A conversation with a couple of both might have provided a platform to ask more questions.
There are some good fleet owners out there, but it does take a little time to find them. Your situation was very unfortunate.
Hopefully your experience will help someone else from getting into that same nightmare. I guess you brought up a good point about websites. Anyone can put anything on a fancy site.
Turns into another "Trust, but verify".
 

Yesteryear

Expert Expediter
See but my question to you is how do new drivers 'talk' to former and present drivers of a company? See, we did not know the industry, were not in the industry, so knew no one from the industry or how to contact anyone in the industry to talk to them or even that we should. To us it was a 'job' although a 'fun' job just like the ones we were currently in. That is the exact point I was trying to make, see now what I was trying to say? We were ignorant and paid dearly for it. I reallllly truelllly think it is the same for most drivers out there who have been burned by bad truck owners. It is ignorance without knowing they are ignorant! Yep, that's it exactly! :D
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
They say ignorance of the law is no excuse. Because the internet is available for information on everything, I'd say ignorance is no longer an excuse for anything.
 

Yesteryear

Expert Expediter
They say ignorance of the law is no excuse. Because the internet is available for information on everything, I'd say ignorance is no longer an excuse for anything.

I'd say if someone is breaking the law they know they are breaking the law. Remember a mentally ill or retarded person is not held responsible in a court of law.

As for the internet. Ya have to know what to research before you can research it. Some of you long timers need to think back to when you first started in this industry. Maybe you knew more then others of us, maybe you knew people in the industry, or maybe your forgeting what it was like to be a beginner. I am not saying we were smart for being burned, of course we weren't we were idiots for getting taken like we did. :D We trusted when we shouldn't have. But ya know what I think? I think it would be a pretty sad world without trust. Just sad, sad indeed.
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Based on what I have read and with all the insight shared by very experienced folks - the driver is at fault here. Just my opinion.
Live and learn.

Next issue.....
 

Yesteryear

Expert Expediter
Based on what I have read and with all the insight shared by very experienced folks - the driver is at fault here. Just my opinion.
Live and learn.

Next issue.....

OMG Yep, that is always the bottom line, no matter what the issue the driver is always at fault. I am sorry Lawrence but that is the most silly statement to date! It is the drivers fault some truck owners are dishonest thieves? OMG :eek: PAAAALEEEZZZZZZZZ!
TS462 is no more at fault then it's a babys fault for being born!
 
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Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Sorry Lawrence, I am usually pretty easy going but you managed to get my goat! :D

No problem. We can agree to disagree. I'm just glad that folks are reading this thread....and learning about what can happen to you if you are not paying attention to the risks out there.
 

Yesteryear

Expert Expediter
My apologies for seeing the above as funny. I know it's not funny at all. It's disgusting. And especially in a case like yours, nothing personal, it's also disgusting that you aren't pursuing it. The only way it can begin to change, is if the victims are willing to follow it through. The owners like that will then have to start thinking twice about pulling that crap.

Do you guys have something like 'Small Claims Court' over there? Here it costs a minimal amount of money, like $75, you get paperwork from the court to fill in, state your case, submit it, and it goes from there. It might need one trip to court. My guess is that some of these freaks might just pay up when they see a legal proceeding arrive in the mail, and that court visit might not even be necessary. Sure it's work, but isn't it worth it for nine thousand BUCKS???

Your right, we should have pursued it. I don't think we have the option now as it has been over 2 years since leaving this truck owner. At the time we had gone through a lot of savings and did not feel we could 'afford' to take him to court. Felt it would cost us more then what we would be recovering. I don't think you can take 9000. to small claims court. Besides, we're not in the habit of suing people, even crooks. Won't lie though, did cost him some drivers! Everytime we run across his drivers (almost all are new to the industry) we buy them lunch and explain to them our stroy, we encourage them to check him out and give them the name and numbers of other couples that have driven for him that he owes lots of money to. We also supply the name and numbers of wonderful honest truck owners, one of which is Expediter Services, to them so they can go to a good truck owner. For fact we have cost him a minimum of a half dozen teams he did not get to rook! Always give them our names and tell them to tell him "our compliments". :D
I was told, thanks to us, Express one (which he also has trucks on with) told his drivers they had to start giving him 2 weeks notice because everytime he put drivers into his trucks they would jump ship and go over to Expediter Services. lol Gives us more satisfaction then double over our money to prevent him from doing to others what he did to us! I always watch out for one of his trucks to come along. lol
So in the long haul who really made the biggest mistake, us for being taken or him for taking us? lol :D
I'm sooooooo mean! heeheehee Got to love me! :p
 

susie q 52

Seasoned Expediter
You don't need to take them to court all you need to do is send the claim to the state labor board. Be sure you have a copy of everything you ever did, trips, logs, receipts. I did it a couple of years ago. I won the judge was so mad at him for wasting her time. He paid me by court order. It didn't cost me anything but a few faxes and a few days off but it was definately worth the time.
 

MentalGiant

Seasoned Expediter
Am I getting across what I'm trying to say here? :cool:

Ya, described it very well. Actually, so well, I know what fleet owner you are talking about. We started at the same place in Indy. They had trucks with all different carriers. Express-1, Panther, Tri-State and one other that I can't remember at the moment.

You will be glad to hear that they had to down size their fleet. They had to sell many of their trucks, crappy trucks I may say. And you were not alone on the pay. We did so many miles and got little from them. But hey, we were noobs, didn't know better. But, I do catch on quickly. About a month of that, told them where they could stick truck and contract. We were not even able to feed ourselves off what we did get paid, if and when we did get paid. They were always trying to sneak keeping money when it was suppose to be 100% to the drivers.

They send a us a bill every now and then through a collection agency saying we owe $10,000 plus for schooling. But, that is hard to believe we owe that much when we paid for all the license fees, fees for taking the driving test etc. They even got desperate a few times sending us a letter saying if we paid within so many days, we would just have to pay half.

Anyways, we left them after a month, found a nice honest owner who cares.
 
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