Which carrier would you lease on with??

Bruno · Sep 17, 2011

_____________________Carrier A_________Carrier B_________Carrier C
Pay per mile w/FSC______$1.30__________$1.80_____________$1.78
Monthly paid miles_______16,000________10,000____________11,000
Monthly unpaid miles_____160__________ 2,000______________500
Monthly paid DH Miles____?_______________?_______________2,500
Monthly total miles______16,160________12,000____________14,000
Monthly cost per mile____$1.00 _________$1.00_____________$1.00
Montly DH revenue______?_______________?_______________$1,100.00
Monthly total revenue___$20,800.00_____$18,000.00________$20,680.00
Monthly total costs_____$16,160.00_____$12,000.00________$14,000.00
Monthly gross profit_____$4,640.00______$6,000.00_________$6,680.00
One year gross profit____$55,680.00_____$72,000.00________$80,160.00
Three year gross profit__$167,040.00____$216,000.00_______$240,480.00
One year total miles_____193,920________144,000___________168,000
Three year total miles___581,760________432,000___________504,000

Which Carrier would you want your truck leased on with?

Turtle · Sep 17, 2011

This seems too much like homework.

Three Year Gross Profit Per Mile
Carrier A - 28.7 cents per mile
Carrier B - 50 cents per mile
Carrier C - 47.7 cents per mile

Carrier B would be a slam dunk. Net profit would skunk the others.

60MPH · Sep 17, 2011

turtle said:
this seems too much like homework. :d

three year gross profit per mile
carrier a - 28.7 cents per mile
carrier b - 50 cents per mile
carrier c - 47.7 cents per mile

carrier b would be a slam dunk. Net profit would skunk the others.

ding ding ding!! We have a winner......drive less net more. Truck will last a year or 2 longer do to lower miles!!

OntarioVanMan · Sep 17, 2011

60MPH said:
ding ding ding!! We have a winner......drive less net more. Truck will last a year or 2 longer do to lower miles!!

I've heard that somewhere before....

60MPH · Sep 17, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
I've heard that somewhere before....

Yea I saw it in some van drivers tag line

It has been modified so it would not be copyright infringement.

OntarioVanMan · Sep 17, 2011

60MPH said:
Yea I saw it in some van drivers tag line

Last 3 CV loads...1.36 1.59 2.10 a loaded mile....

gimmie the money honey...sqeeeeze dem lemons..LOL

jjoerger · Sep 17, 2011

Who is this mythical Carrier B that will sign on a surface expedite dry van with no lift gate for $1.80 per mile?

If there is not a company that will pay that rate why bother using them in a comparison. It seems to me it's just a comparison between reality and fantasy. Let's use real numbers of Panther at $1.49 and Express 1 at $1.41. No extras as they are too much of a variable. Do your spreadsheet with those figures plugged in and see what you get.

ATeam · Sep 17, 2011

Kindly note that I said from the beginning that the table is over-simplified. In your comments you bump up against the table limits yourself when you talk about extra pay for pallet jack, etc. How do you account for those and other accessorials? In this simplified table, you don't.

There is no carrier out there that pays $1.80 flat rate for straight trucks that I know of but I do know of trucks that average $1.80 per mile or better on percentage pay while driving less miles than flat rate trucks to do it. (One example here, but please note that one month does not a trend make.) These people don't make that kind of money because a table says they should. They make it with careful load acceptance and other business skills.

Whether the truck is a dry box or reefer does not matter. Whether it is lift-gate equipped or not does not matter. The table compares compensation methods, not trucks. The table presumes that Truck A and Truck B are identical in every respect. Again, the identical trucks are hypothetical and the table is over-simplified.

You and Bruno seem to have the most to say about the particulars of your respective carriers and compensation, but the table cannot be used to compare your truck to one of Bruno's because the trucks and drivers are not the same.

Regarding the advertised rates that carriers pay, those are advertised. It is becoming increasingly common for people to negotiate their own flat rate when they move. Fleet owners sometimes move their trucks because they are given better deals than the advertised rates.

Even with one truck, contract rates can be negotiated. Someone told me exactly that not long ago saying, "If you come over, you can get a flat rate of $X.XX per mile (well above the advertised rate) because you are Phil Madsen. While that was a nice compliment, Diane and I stayed put.

As the demand for trucks and drivers increase, look for more negotiating power to come the owner-operator's way.

ATeam · Sep 17, 2011

jjoerger said:
Let's use real numbers of Panther at $1.49 and Express 1 at $1.41. No extras as they are too much of a variable. Do your spreadsheet with those figures plugged in and see what you get.

Give me the numbers and I'll plug them into the table and show the results. For each truck, I will need:

- Pay per mile
- Monthly paid miles
- Monthly unpaid miles

But notice -- and this is important -- you are changing the subject. The Flat Rate vs. Percentage Pay thread began by comparing two identical trucks that are paid differently; one percentage, one flat rate. You are wanting to compare three flat rate programs, each of which is carrier-specific.

As explained, my tables and trucks are hypothetical. They are not designed compare carriers, they are designed to help owner-operators and drivers think through the differences between flat rate pay and percentage-of-load pay.

Bruno · Sep 17, 2011

Carrier A is FedEx

Carrier B is Phil Madsen example of a percentage truck

Carrier C is one of Mayfield Express LLC dry box lift gate truck.

Carrier B is the true winner because less miles on the truck that will last longer and has a higher profit per mile.

Carrier C is the winner in gross income, but your putting more miles on truck and can possibly spending more on tires, oil, and repairs. So clearly carrier B is the winner.

The big loser is clearly carrier A. You wear a truck out in 6 years where carrier B will last 1 to 2 years longer. Carrier C is better than carrier A and you may be able to get 7 years out of that truck if you bought it brand new.

Phil Madsen post on in regards to the higher rate per mile may get a lot of negative post from members. I would say that the post is right on money and can be made if you take the time to build a relationship with brokers and shippers to keep your truck or trucks moving. Davekc can confirm this as DaveKc has helped me with finding freight for our trucks over the years.

That is why I say no to cheap freight. But on the other hand if you can put two or more less paying loads together on your truck to get the rate you need to make a profit , that is great too. Nothing like getting two or three loads on the same truck to get $3.00 a mile all in after your carrier takes their cut.

Also with keeping up on preventive maintains on your truck your profit at Carrier B will be higher when the truck is paid for. Look at Phil and Diane truck is a prime example of what a little extra time spent on a truck can do for a truck. The Madsens truck is five years old and still look brand new and is worth more because it don't have high miles.

melanieanne · Sep 17, 2011

More fantesy posts I see from Fleet Owners

You must remember one thing you got to account for your drivers as well. Making them sit for those high paying loads, and them making chicken scratch to save a mile on your truck. You will have a high rate turn over in your fleets.

I know many fleet owners that do just that. Only care about themselves. As long as the Truck payment is made for the week. All is good. Wrong!! when the Truck is sitting in that persons yard and Like a Swift Driver the Fleeter can't back it out. Only in the End will the Blinders come off to see the total pic.

cheri1122 · Sep 17, 2011

melanieanne said:
More fantesy posts I see from Fleet Owners

The thread is about carriers, not fleet owners.

You must remember one thing you got to account for your drivers as well. Making them sit for those high paying loads, and them making chicken scratch to save a mile on your truck. You will have a high rate turn over in your fleets.

I know many fleet owners that do just that. Only care about themselves. As long as the Truck payment is made for the week. All is good. Wrong!! when the Truck is sitting in that persons yard and Like a Swift Driver the Fleeter can't back it out. Only in the End will the Blinders come off to see the total pic.

If the fleet owner doesn't treat you right, find another one - good drivers don't have a problem finding a new spot.

PS Only when some folks realize how unique their writing style is will the blinders come off, Kevin.

davekc · Sep 17, 2011

melanieanne said:
More fantesy posts I see from Fleet Owners

You must remember one thing you got to account for your drivers as well. Making them sit for those high paying loads, and them making chicken scratch to save a mile on your truck. You will have a high rate turn over in your fleets.

I know many fleet owners that do just that. Only care about themselves. As long as the Truck payment is made for the week. All is good. Wrong!! when the Truck is sitting in that persons yard and Like a Swift Driver the Fleeter can't back it out. Only in the End will the Blinders come off to see the total pic.

OK.....so are you saying to run cheap freight? Or run more for less? No one likes to sit, but if you can achieve the same revenue on 3000 miles for example, why would you run 5000 to be at the same place?

usafk9 · Sep 17, 2011

That's funny, Cheri.

Yamoooooooooo!

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

sybild · Sep 17, 2011

cheri1122 said:
PS Only when some folks realize how unique their writing style is will the blinders come off, Kevin.

melanieanne kevin. I find female-male multiple personality syndrome fascinating.

greg334 · Sep 17, 2011

That is why I say no to cheap freight. But on the other hand if you can put two or more less paying loads together on your truck to get the rate you need to make a profit , that is great too. Nothing like getting two or three loads on the same truck to get $3.00 a mile all in after your carrier takes their cut.

So I find this actually odd to see it on this forum after the "discussion" ensued based on the OP's point that I was lying about what rates I was getting and how one can achieve those rates, not just once in a while but consistently.

ALL the elements are there ... multiple loads at rates that add up and the company cut.

14Wheeler · Sep 17, 2011

Not really that odd at all. Just a seasoned driver who's developed a fleet of vehicles. Seems Dave has taken the proven history of other successfull O/O's and is cross comparing multible scenarios. We know for a fact that Dave has history with fedex and Panther. Using Ateam as a reference is plausible cause it's a known fact he really does drive and is successful. I think when it really comes down to it, professionals like Dave and Phil are the credible references in matters of the expediting business. I don't question for one minute, they're lying about anything. When anyone here reads the stories of either Dave and Phil, we all know for a fact, those trucks and those drivers are really turning miles on the roads of America.

Who's really lying? That's a poll idea.

Bruno · Sep 18, 2011

melanieanne said:
More fantesy posts I see from Fleet Owners

You must remember one thing you got to account for your drivers as well. Making them sit for those high paying loads, and them making chicken scratch to save a mile on your truck. You will have a high rate turn over in your fleets.

I know many fleet owners that do just that. Only care about themselves. As long as the Truck payment is made for the week. All is good. Wrong!! when the Truck is sitting in that persons yard and Like a Swift Driver the Fleeter can't back it out. Only in the End will the Blinders come off to see the total pic.

I'm sorry but my stats aren't FANTASY as you put it. Those are true stats from a driver who has been with me since 1999, he runs the truck the same way I do because he was my co-driver for many years before I came off the road full time two years ago. Not all fleet owners are as you say. That would kinda be dumb to not care about the people that make you money as you think fleet owners do. I have some of the best core of drivers ever. Thanks Guys for all your hard work.

Bruno · Sep 18, 2011

14Wheeler said:
Not really that odd at all. Just a seasoned driver who's developed a fleet of vehicles. Seems Dave has taken the proven history of other successfull O/O's and is cross comparing multible scenarios. We know for a fact that Dave has history with fedex and Panther. Using Ateam as a reference is plausible cause it's a known fact he really does drive and is successful. I think when it really comes down to it, professionals like Dave and Phil are the credible references in matters of the expediting business. I don't question for one minute, they're lying about anything. When anyone here reads the stories of either Dave and Phil, we all know for a fact, those trucks and those drivers are really turning miles on the roads of America.

Who's really lying? That's a poll idea.

Thank you for your kind words, I talked to Phil on the phone the other day for the 1st time ever, Phil is really one cool guy that for years I may have taken the wrong way. The guy was one of the nicest guys from EO I ever talked to on the phone. DaveKc, Turtle, Dreamer, Terry, and many others are on that list also.

I came away with A LOT more respect for Phil. I was told stories how Phil wouldn't talk to people. After talking with Phil for almost for what seemed like a hour, I would say those stories are untrue. Thanks Phil for the talk and be safe out on the road.

14Wheeler · Sep 18, 2011

Bruno said:
Thank you for your kind words

If not kind, they were at least genuine.

And, I believe, is the point.

I know who I am. There's no doubt that Phil And Dave Mayfield are real people, doing the kind of work this forum is dedicated to.

Who is this person you entrusted with your financial information
with Dave ? Who is this person that has relentlessly hounded every single post Phil has every made on this forum ?

Is he genuine ?

Is he even in the business ?