What has you ripping your hair out sometimes in this business?

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
A lot of the real-time load board stuff is being done with vastly improved and updated technology, as with Sylectus and other networks. The public just doesn't see that. A lot of it is also done in private e-mails between shippers or customers and select carriers. Both are more or less relationship oriented, as you've noted.

Despite the perceived (and real) shortcomings of cell phones and e-mail, yes, it used to be a lot harder. With the addition of real-time tracking of the Qualcomm, which is an important communications tool all on its own, even if no individual messages are sent using it, as it communicates the location of the truck to dispatch and to customers alike, the QC, cell phones and e-mail make it much easier than having dispatch not know where you are and no way to contact you until you showed up at a pickup or delivery, or pulled over and found a pay phone to check in with them. Many things that you used to have faxed or snail mailed to you are now e-mailed to you directly. That goes both ways.

E-mail isn't as bad as you might think, especially in-house at many carriers.
Some have filters that only allow in certain e-mail addresses, like established customers and the drivers they have leased. At many carriers, for example, anyone including spammers can e-mail the carrier, but they cannot e-mail a dispatcher directly unless they are on The List. Apparently they have vastly superior SPAM filters than you do, or far fewer friends on Facebook, because 1200 e-mails in a week is insane. :D

Phone calls are recorded and e-mails (and QC messages) are logged and kept, mainly for quality management tracking (ISO 9000) purposes. Nearly all in-house communications at medium and large carriers are done via e-mail for that very reason. It's the preferred method of communications.

Like Twitter and Facebook, the current real-time load boards and e-mail system is a very effective way of communicating to large groups of people, and more to the point, to a very selective targeted large group of people. Unlike general trucking, available expedite loads are more on a "need to know" basis than they are on a "want to know" or "everybody can know" basis. Shippers only want to deal with the carriers they can rely on, rather than just any ol' body out there.

Communicating between driver and dispatch, shipper and carrier, broker and consignee, driver and consignee, etc., these are mainly a one-on-one thing, and things communicated between driver and dispatch, for example, may very well be something that shipper/broker/consignee need not know about at all. So communicating much of anything on individual loads is not something that should be done to large groups of people, anyway.

We already have the tools for good communication. Dispatch, for example, can easily call us with one click, or send a QC text message. Problem is, they by and large don't. If you could write an app that will make dispatch or someone at a carrier call me back after they say they will, you've got my money.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
If you could write an app that will make dispatch or someone at a carrier call me back after they say they will, you've got my money.

I think there would be to much programming for that app. It would be easier to leave it up to the drivers to help train dispatchers, dispatchers can just wear a training collar and we purchase an app to be able to help train dispatchers, we just press an icon on our phone when they are being rude or if they gave us bad information and they receive a small 75k volt shock. The companies can be sold on purchasing the collars as a tool to a smoother operating company which will maximize profits and productivity. I would pay anywhere from $50 to 100 for the app on the drivers end.

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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Hey softwareguy I was just talking with my brother about this topic and we came up with a great idea for an app, unfortunately he wants to see about doing this on his own but we have some other ideas that may work as far as the software side of things. I will let you know once we finish bouncing ideas around.

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softwareguy

Active Expediter
A lot of the real-time load board stuff is being done with vastly improved and updated technology, as with Sylectus and other networks. The public just doesn't see that. A lot of it is also done in private e-mails between shippers or customers and select carriers. Both are more or less relationship oriented, as you've noted.

Despite the perceived (and real) shortcomings of cell phones and e-mail, yes, it used to be a lot harder. With the addition of real-time tracking of the Qualcomm, which is an important communications tool all on its own, even if no individual messages are sent using it, as it communicates the location of the truck to dispatch and to customers alike, the QC, cell phones and e-mail make it much easier than having dispatch not know where you are and no way to contact you until you showed up at a pickup or delivery, or pulled over and found a pay phone to check in with them. Many things that you used to have faxed or snail mailed to you are now e-mailed to you directly. That goes both ways.

E-mail isn't as bad as you might think, especially in-house at many carriers.
Some have filters that only allow in certain e-mail addresses, like established customers and the drivers they have leased. At many carriers, for example, anyone including spammers can e-mail the carrier, but they cannot e-mail a dispatcher directly unless they are on The List. Apparently they have vastly superior SPAM filters than you do, or far fewer friends on Facebook, because 1200 e-mails in a week is insane. :D

Phone calls are recorded and e-mails (and QC messages) are logged and kept, mainly for quality management tracking (ISO 9000) purposes. Nearly all in-house communications at medium and large carriers are done via e-mail for that very reason. It's the preferred method of communications.

Like Twitter and Facebook, the current real-time load boards and e-mail system is a very effective way of communicating to large groups of people, and more to the point, to a very selective targeted large group of people. Unlike general trucking, available expedite loads are more on a "need to know" basis than they are on a "want to know" or "everybody can know" basis. Shippers only want to deal with the carriers they can rely on, rather than just any ol' body out there.

Communicating between driver and dispatch, shipper and carrier, broker and consignee, driver and consignee, etc., these are mainly a one-on-one thing, and things communicated between driver and dispatch, for example, may very well be something that shipper/broker/consignee need not know about at all. So communicating much of anything on individual loads is not something that should be done to large groups of people, anyway.

We already have the tools for good communication. Dispatch, for example, can easily call us with one click, or send a QC text message. Problem is, they by and large don't. If you could write an app that will make dispatch or someone at a carrier call me back after they say they will, you've got my money.

For a pomous ***, you write incredibly insightful responses :) . Thank you! I am going to digest this and talk it over with some friends.

I do have a few questions about the QC, though. Does the driver initiate the location "ping" or does dispatch initiate it (basically, is dispatch getting your location without asking you to share it)? Also, is it fair to say that most expediters have a QC unit installed? I had thought that one of the great benefits of a QC unit is that a carrier can see what's going on with his assets. When an O/O is leased to a carrier, does the carrier really need to know all the details the QC provides (since the asset is not owned by the carrier)?

Lastly,

If you could write an app that will make dispatch or someone at a carrier call me back after they say they will, you've got my money.

What's their side to that story? Too many loads, too little personnel? Not enough incentive to care about your inquiry? Obviously, short of the shock collar, I can't make them write back but it is, after all, a communication breakdown for a reason unknown to me...

Again, thank you for your well thought out response. You also made me think back to when I was a shipper. I shipped about 50 loads of furniture per day to new homes (houses that didn't require down payments were great for furniture retailers until the bubble burst) back before '07.

Communicating between driver and dispatch, shipper and carrier, broker and consignee, driver and consignee, etc., these are mainly a one-on-one thing, and things communicated between driver and dispatch, for example, may very well be something that shipper/broker/consignee need not know about at all.

I believe if I would have shared all communication between me and the carrier with the consignee, the quality of my entire operation would have gone up. That transparency would have forced me to make the entire delivery experience better. Of course, I know there was a lot more chatter happening on the carrier's side, too, that I never heard anything about...
 

softwareguy

Active Expediter
Oh man there are some dispatchers I would love see get replaced by a computer. This idea could work well in the regular trucking industry since the dispatchers could easily be replaced there, heck they could be replaced with monkeys. You would need programming that could account for average speed, length of haul, hours of service, and for a driver to go out of service. It may be capable of working with an expedite carrier that just pays a flat rate per mile and where dispatchers do little more than press a few buttons, but that is not the case for a lot of expedite companies. You would have to market this to the big carriers since smaller carriers work off of the we are like family recruiting approach.

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Paul,

I can hear you are just as excited about the auto-dispatch as I am. The variables you mentioned are definitely not that difficult to implement. We had done it for the most part to reduce lead time for taxi pickups. Our algorithms predicted when and where the next passenger will call for a cab using all the historical data since we launched the product until the previous day.

The kind of auto-dispatch I would love to see for trucking is a sort of aggregator dispatch. For example: A trucker puts in address A and B and the dispatch calculates the most efficient "load route" that may go from A to C to D to E to F to B, picking up and dropping off multiple loads before arriving at point B. In my opinion, though, that can only work within a closed environment (opposed to getting the data off public load boards) where the price of a load is set. That way, the auto-dispatch can calculate if it is worth it to go to any of those points to pick up the load, opposed to other points.

Basically, the kind of work you want an auto-dispatch to do is the kind that would take a human (or monkey, as you mentioned in some cases) a long time, yet the computer spits out in one second

I think there would be to much programming for that app. It would be easier to leave it up to the drivers to help train dispatchers, dispatchers can just wear a training collar and we purchase an app to be able to help train dispatchers, we just press an icon on our phone when they are being rude or if they gave us bad information and they receive a small 75k volt shock. The companies can be sold on purchasing the collars as a tool to a smoother operating company which will maximize profits and productivity. I would pay anywhere from $50 to 100 for the app on the drivers end.

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If you manufacture the shock collars with receivers, I will crank out the app!

Hey softwareguy I was just talking with my brother about this topic and we came up with a great idea for an app, unfortunately he wants to see about doing this on his own but we have some other ideas that may work as far as the software side of things. I will let you know once we finish bouncing ideas around.

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That sounds great. I hope I get mentioned in your brother's release notes for sparking up that conversation. Good luck! You can check out this site: Lumzy It allows you to draw out how the app should work. It is very easy to use (and free). It helps me when I try to envision what things should look and act like.

Here's a list of more mock up programs: 10 Completely Free Wireframing and Mockup Tools
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I would really look at trying to create software for a full truck load auto dispatching system. The way it would work would be straight forward and basic. The marketing to the large carriers would be easy to do since it would decrease costs, be more efficient, and help prevent driver/dispatcher issues. Obviously from my previous post you can tell sometimes there is some tension between drivers and dispatchers so the companies can also use it as a recruiting campaign.

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softwareguy

Active Expediter
I would really look at trying to create software for a full truck load auto dispatching system. The way it would work would be straight forward and basic. The marketing to the large carriers would be easy to do since it would decrease costs, be more efficient, and help prevent driver/dispatcher issues. Obviously from my previous post you can tell sometimes there is some tension between drivers and dispatchers so the companies can also use it as a recruiting campaign.

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What has me holding back on that idea is the question why the giant carriers haven't tried that yet. They have had gps transmitters in many cabs for years already.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
What has me holding back on that idea is the question why the giant carriers haven't tried that yet. They have had gps transmitters in many cabs for years already.

The idea may have not been pitched correctly to them, yet. In times like these carriers are much more likely to try ideas that they can see saving them money. I think if you go in with a pitch put together on how much it can save, how it will streamline their systems, and the way they will sell it to drivers it could be a money maker.

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purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
Someone asking on a daily basis for help in launching an expedite career. As talented as the folks are at EO they should have a page that's titled.

"THINKING OF Expediting? All your questions answered just click here" ;)
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What has me holding back on that idea is the question why the giant carriers haven't tried that yet. They have had gps transmitters in many cabs for years already.

My guess is that it's not as simple as matching tab A [customer needs truck] to slot B [truck is ready to haul freight]. There are waaaay too many variables, when tab A notes 'no pets' or 'must be American citizen', along with the usual specific requirements [liftgate, team operation]. And then slot B may be willing to accept only loads that get them towards home, or have a less than stellar record that a dispatcher wouldn't risk with an important customer.
Toss in the favored status of having done a very short load, or the promise of 'first out' that some carriers use as incentive, [especially tangled when there are multiple 'first outs' in the same place, lol] and it needs a human to decide who's on first. And what's on second. :D

 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
My guess is that it's not as simple as matching tab A [customer needs truck] to slot B [truck is ready to haul freight]. There are waaaay too many variables, when tab A notes 'no pets' or 'must be American citizen', along with the usual specific requirements [liftgate, team operation]. And then slot B may be willing to accept only loads that get them towards home, or have a less than stellar record that a dispatcher wouldn't risk with an important customer.
Toss in the favored status of having done a very short load, or the promise of 'first out' that some carriers use as incentive, [especially tangled when there are multiple 'first outs' in the same place, lol] and it needs a human to decide who's on first. And what's on second. :D


Those are all variables that could be programmed in, you wouldn't be replacing all humans just the majority. When I had mentioned this I was referring to large general freight customers like JB, Swift, or the Pumpkin.

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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Those are all variables that could be programmed in, you wouldn't be replacing all humans just the majority.
Nah - too many 'seat of the pants' judgements to make, IMO.
Even if you consider dispatchers to be lowlifes [which I certainly don't], aren't there enough people out of work already?!

When I had mentioned this I was referring to large general freight customers like JB, Swift, or the Pumpkin.

If you want to help solve problems for the LTL industry, have at it - but give us a heads up when it isn't about expediting, because we kind of assume that on this site, it is about expediting.
We're simple like that: call it Expediters Online, and we think that's what it's for.
Well, that and - never mind, not gonna go there.

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Posted without any apps whatsoever.:rolleyes:
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Those are all variables that could be programmed in, you wouldn't be replacing all humans just the majority.
Nah - too many 'seat of the pants' judgements to make, IMO.
Even if you consider dispatchers to be lowlifes [which I certainly don't], aren't there enough people out of work already?!

When I had mentioned this I was referring to large general freight customers like JB, Swift, or the Pumpkin.

If you want to help solve problems for the LTL industry, have at it - but give us a heads up when it isn't about expediting, because we kind of assume that on this site, it is about expediting.
We're simple like that: call it Expediters Online, and we think that's what it's for.
Well, that and - never mind, not gonna go there.

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Posted without any apps whatsoever.:rolleyes:

I actually did specify it would work for full truck load large carriers, just go back a few posts. You just happened to catch part of the conversation.

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
For a pomous ***, you write incredibly insightful responses :) . Thank you! I am going to digest this and talk it over with some friends.
A pompous ***? I'm not pompous. :D

I do have a few questions about the QC, though. Does the driver initiate the location "ping" or does dispatch initiate it (basically, is dispatch getting your location without asking you to share it)?
Each carrier can set it up any way they want, but most leave the defaults, more or less. If the carriers and dispatch had to rely on driver initiation to execute a location ping, no one would ever know where anyone was. :D

Satellite positions (pings) are updated and recorded every time a message is sent or received by the QC unit in the truck. The GPS coordinates themselves are updated about once a second locally by the unit, but they are not transmitted to the carrier with that frequency. Normally, when the ignition is ON, the QC updates its satellite position (GPS coordinates) every 30 minutes. You can alter that and have it update every 20, 10, 5, whatever, but the more often passive updates are done, the more the satellite "time" will cost the carrier. Seems for most carriers that once every 30 minutes, or at every message sent or received, is a cost effective balance. The satellite position is also updated every time you turn the ignition ON or OFF, and the ON/OFF state is also recorded.

Obviously, this can cause confusion with dispatch (and some customers who can also monitor some truck's positions). Like, your scheduled pickup is at 14:30, and it wont' be ready before that, so you are sitting someplace waiting for the time to move towards the shipper. Your most recent position update took place at 13:45, and you left where you were sitting at 13:50 to go to the shipper, where you arrive at 14:10, but have not yet sent the "Arrive at Shipper" message which will automatically update your position. So, dispatch thinks you are still sitting where you were at 13:45, 15 miles away from the shipper, when in reality you are pulling into the lot of the shipper. And dispatch thinks you're going to be late. Often they'll send over a message like, "Are you ready to roll to the shipper? (or are you rolling?)" which of course prompts you to get moving if you aren't, and it also updates the satellite position for dispatch.

The above assume you were sitting and idling (ignition ON). If you were parked with the engine OFF, and then started the truck to roll at 13:50 it would update at that time.

When you turn the ignition OFF, the QC goes first into a QUIET mode, which is a reduced power state where the GPS coordinates are updated every five seconds. The QC is hooked to the main battery, switched to the ignition, obviously, and if left running at full power, it would drain the cranking battery rather quickly. After an hour (or half hour, or whatever profile the carrier wants to use), the QC shuts itself down completely, nothing in or out, to save battery power. There are many different profiles that can be set, but once it shuts down, it will then wake up after half an hour (or an hour) and check for any missed incoming messages (fleet messages, load offers, etc.) and then go back to sleep after 5 minutes. Most have the profiles set so that it will wake up, check messages, then go back to sleep, 6 or 8 times, and then after that it goes to sleep and stays that way until you turn the ignition ON again. But that really varies a lot between carriers.

Also, is it fair to say that most expediters have a QC unit installed?
Yes, but only because the larger carriers contain most of the expediters, overall, and those carriers use the QC.

I had thought that one of the great benefits of a QC unit is that a carrier can see what's going on with his assets. When an O/O is leased to a carrier, does the carrier really need to know all the details the QC provides (since the asset is not owned by the carrier)?
There are a great many benefits of the QC, almost all of which benefit the carrier more so than the contractor. In general trucking where the trucks are company assets, fleet tracking is nearly essential. For expedited carriers, knowing where someone is in an instant (or close to it) can be crucial for time-critical pickup and delivery. Customer calls up, says, "I need something picked up ASAP, can you do it?"

Carrier says, "Uhm, I dunno if I have any trucks in the area. Let me make a few phone calls and see if I can help you."

Or, Carrier says, "Yes, we have 2 vans and three straight trucks all within 30 minutes of you. What are the dimensions, number of pieces, and weight?"


Lastly,
What's their side to that story? Too many loads, too little personnel? Not enough incentive to care about your inquiry?
Depends on the carrier. Sometimes one or the other, sometimes both. Large carriers have a lot of loads to get covered, and a lot of drivers to deal with, from whining about something to breakdowns and can't find the shipper. They can be quite busy. And as soon as they put out one fire, they have to deal with the next one. Calling a driver back regarding a non-critical emergency gets pushed rapidly down the list of "important", often to the point where it becomes trivial (to them).

This can happen at carriers large and small, because it always seems that no matter the size of the carrier, they could always use juuuust one more dispatcher on duty.

Obviously, short of the shock collar, I can't make them write back but it is, after all, a communication breakdown for a reason unknown to me...
I do like the shock collar idea. A lot.

Again, thank you for your well thought out response. You also made me think back to when I was a shipper. I shipped about 50 loads of furniture per day to new homes (houses that didn't require down payments were great for furniture retailers until the bubble burst) back before '07.
You're welcome. I'm a dichotomy wrapped in an enigma. I can be an ***, but ultimately if I can help, I will. :)

I believe if I would have shared all communication between me and the carrier with the consignee, the quality of my entire operation would have gone up. That transparency would have forced me to make the entire delivery experience better. Of course, I know there was a lot more chatter happening on the carrier's side, too, that I never heard anything about...
Possibly better, but the consignee just wants their stuff.

Of course, there's a mot more communication that gets shared with the consignee (and the customer and shipper) than might be immediately evident. Customers can track the satellite positions, ignition states, all kinds of stuff. Anyone can track the basics of freight (at many carriers), much like tracking a package with UPS. But some customers also have their own logins to carrier's Web sites for enhanced tracking and information.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I think if you are in SF, take a trip down to sunnyvale, visit Qualcomm and have them show you their packages and systems.

Many carriers have them handle a lot more than dispatching, like IFTA, messaging and temp monitoring and not to mention asset tracking.
 
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