Hello everyone; i have not followed the political arena as well as I should have, but in the past few years, I have become increasing intrested in what is happening. I have given this question a lot of thought and I can not come up with one answer. This not a joke, so please help me with the best answers that you know. What has our goverment done, Local, State or Federal, that has benefited the working class people in the last 4 decade? I have read many of the post here and find them very helpful. I am sure that this group can answer my BURNING question. Thank Guys.
What has our Goverment
- Thread starter touble
- Start date
Sure have to agree with you on that one!!
Gee Trouble, I guess I have read and learned everything wrong. I was not aware that our government was susposed to do things for me. I thought I was susposed to take care of my self and mine. The government is susposed to be limited in power and scope and, as much as possible, just stay out of the way. Just what responsiblity does the government have for you and under which artical of the Constitution does it have that authority? Are they required to feed or clothe? Provide a job? Take care of you health? I never saw any of that in the Constitution that I read. Please show me, in the Constitution, where this is so I too can line up to be cared for. Layoutshooter
Utilities, essential and emergency services like police, fire, medical, roads, minimum wage standards, workplace safety, vehicle safety, food safety, environmental cleanup. There's actually quite a long list of things the government has done at the local, state and federal level over the past 4 decades that have benefited the working class.
Let's see Turtle, in many many area's of the country the government does NOT provide police, fire or emergency medical coverage. Most rural areas are covered by volunteer services thank you very much. Those services are often better than large city paid services. When I was the training officer for Glen Rock Hose and Ladder Co. in Glen Rock PA, my job was to track STATE CERTIFIED training hours as well as in house training. Our company averaged over 120 hours CERTIFIED training per year per person and WE paid for our own training. We had a fire safety rating by local insurance companies that was higher than New York City or Boston had.
We provided our own ambulance services as well. My wife and I were both EMT's with that service.
Many States Forest Fire Crews are, for the most part, volunteer. I ran with the Southern York Forest Fire Crew, The Pennsyvania State Forest Fire Crew AND the Pennsylvania Hot Shot Forest Fire Crew. I paid for my own training on all the services I ran for.
Minimum wages are NOT a valid government function. The roads are falling apart along with much of the rest of our infrastructure that the government is running.
Some of the safety stuff is ok but even that is getting carried away, like our hours of service and those stupid questionairs that MN and IN are using are examples of government running amok.
From how I look at it government has a very poor track record in providing services and for those mediorcore services we are forced to pay premium taxes.
Layoutshooter
We provided our own ambulance services as well. My wife and I were both EMT's with that service.
Many States Forest Fire Crews are, for the most part, volunteer. I ran with the Southern York Forest Fire Crew, The Pennsyvania State Forest Fire Crew AND the Pennsylvania Hot Shot Forest Fire Crew. I paid for my own training on all the services I ran for.
Minimum wages are NOT a valid government function. The roads are falling apart along with much of the rest of our infrastructure that the government is running.
Some of the safety stuff is ok but even that is getting carried away, like our hours of service and those stupid questionairs that MN and IN are using are examples of government running amok.
From how I look at it government has a very poor track record in providing services and for those mediorcore services we are forced to pay premium taxes.
Layoutshooter
The question was, what has the government done, at any level, that has benefited the class. I answered it the best I could without going into mind-numbing pedantic details. Yes, there are many areas of the country where fire and medical are volunteer. But there are also many areas of the country where these services are paid for by taxes. As for police, I'm not aware of any volunteer State Police.
Whether minimum wage is a valid government function or not is irrelevant to whether or not they provided it to directly benefit the working class. They did.
Most of the safety stuff is beyond carried away. I make judgments as to their need or effectiveness, only that they exist.
As for the roads falling apart, yeah, the infrastructure is in bad shape, but not ALL of it has been for the entire four decade premise as posed in the original query. I just drove from Indiana to North Carolina and some of it was crappy roads in desperate need of repair, but some of it was brand new and in perfect condition. In any case, can you imagine if nothing, and I mean nothing at all, had been done to any of the roads or bridges by any level of government over the past 40 years? I'm gonna guess that the roads and bridges would be in slightly worse shape than they are now.
But again, the question was what have they done, not how effective or efficient they have been at it.
Whether minimum wage is a valid government function or not is irrelevant to whether or not they provided it to directly benefit the working class. They did.
Most of the safety stuff is beyond carried away. I make judgments as to their need or effectiveness, only that they exist.
As for the roads falling apart, yeah, the infrastructure is in bad shape, but not ALL of it has been for the entire four decade premise as posed in the original query. I just drove from Indiana to North Carolina and some of it was crappy roads in desperate need of repair, but some of it was brand new and in perfect condition. In any case, can you imagine if nothing, and I mean nothing at all, had been done to any of the roads or bridges by any level of government over the past 40 years? I'm gonna guess that the roads and bridges would be in slightly worse shape than they are now.
But again, the question was what have they done, not how effective or efficient they have been at it.
In the 9 years or so I've found the roads getting a heck of a lot better....sure there is some bad ones yet but all in all they are better...
Hey Thanks Guy for your answers. I am one who has worked hard for many years and never ask for anything from my goverment, that I have not pay for. It appears that the working class is being force to give more, with very little response from our goverment for the needs of our country. I notice that over the years our goverment has a need to give our tax dollars to every person in the world and has borrow money to do so. I see so many hard working americans trying just to get by and not asking for help, but our goverment could less about these people. I do not think people are asking for a hand out, just give us a break from all these taxes and give us some of our freedom back. I would like, one time, for our goverment to say This Is for The Americans Only. Maybe some day this will happen, but I dont think so in my life time.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OVM,
Maybe everywhere else but not here.
I point to a great example, Southfield rd between I75 and I94.
We are spending all this money to build, repair and fix the roads. some of the money is going to widen roads for development housing tracks and some to repair bridges that are well new.
Between between I75 and I94, Southfield rd is bad, really bad and needs to be ripped up and properly fixed but I have heard that it is not scheduled for any major work just patching so I have to ask where is the money going?
Maybe everywhere else but not here.
I point to a great example, Southfield rd between I75 and I94.
We are spending all this money to build, repair and fix the roads. some of the money is going to widen roads for development housing tracks and some to repair bridges that are well new.
Between between I75 and I94, Southfield rd is bad, really bad and needs to be ripped up and properly fixed but I have heard that it is not scheduled for any major work just patching so I have to ask where is the money going?
Check the bank accounts of the City and State's elected officails, thier families accounts and the accounts of the union offcials. You should find most of it there. Layoutshooter
flattop40
Expert Expediter
Lets not forget about NASA. Most say it is a waiste of money but think of all the advancements that have come about because of it. Microwaves, Velcro, GPS, etc.
We also have roads, fire, police, military, schools, all things that are provided with our tax dollors.
But that is where I draw the line. Any other governmental control is bad. Whether its gun control or to telling me how my house should look or be. They have over stepped their boundries in so many areas.
We also have roads, fire, police, military, schools, all things that are provided with our tax dollors.
But that is where I draw the line. Any other governmental control is bad. Whether its gun control or to telling me how my house should look or be. They have over stepped their boundries in so many areas.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
NASA?
OK, for the amount of money that is spent there, our return is less as it should be. If the government gave the same amount of money to private companies and told them "do this" or "we want that", they would give us a better return. They have been an overinflated government bureaucracy for a long time, and right now I would like to see them cut a lot of the programs that are wasteful and focus on few projects.
GPS?
That came from the Department of Defense, not Nasa
OK, for the amount of money that is spent there, our return is less as it should be. If the government gave the same amount of money to private companies and told them "do this" or "we want that", they would give us a better return. They have been an overinflated government bureaucracy for a long time, and right now I would like to see them cut a lot of the programs that are wasteful and focus on few projects.
GPS?
That came from the Department of Defense, not Nasa
flattop40
Expert Expediter
Velcro, nor Teflon (another popular one), came out of NASA. They were developed long before NASA was created. But for every Dollar that goes into NASA, about five comes back. I'm not sure what kind of return would be acceptable beyond that.
It also depends on what you want out of NASA and how you view the benefits. If you look for things that have come directly out of NASA and into the mainstream commerce, the return is probably one dollar for every 10 spent on NASA. But if you look at the inventions and innovations that have been spurred by NASA research, the figure can be anywhere from $5 to more than $20 for every dollar spent on NASA.
I'm not sure why people rag on NASA. During the 60's NASA's budget was 2, 3, 4 percent of the federal budget, but since the mid 70's it's been one percent or less, and it's current budget is .55% of the federal budget, a mere $17.2 billion. The DOT has a budget of $70 billion.
GPS is a DoD thing, but don't for a minute think NASA research in satellites and rockets didn't play a big part in it. Cell phones are a direct result of NASA. So it the MRI and the DVD and the smoke detector. NASA-led research on microchip technology started off for one thing, and has led to the digital camera. The entire quest to make things smaller, miniturization, came directly out of NASA. The battery powered drill that was used to take core samples of the moon advanced drills and batteries by leaps about bounds, almost of it having made it into consumer-level cordless power tools. Most of the advancement in computer graphics and error correction of data has come directly out of NASA's decoding of pictures and other data that arrives from distant satellites being carried on power that is equivalent of a feather hitting the ground.
The thermal reflective window coverings I use is the same exact material that protects the Mars Rovers, the Space Station and a large number of satellites. It was developed under direct contract for NASA.
It also depends on what you want out of NASA and how you view the benefits. If you look for things that have come directly out of NASA and into the mainstream commerce, the return is probably one dollar for every 10 spent on NASA. But if you look at the inventions and innovations that have been spurred by NASA research, the figure can be anywhere from $5 to more than $20 for every dollar spent on NASA.
I'm not sure why people rag on NASA. During the 60's NASA's budget was 2, 3, 4 percent of the federal budget, but since the mid 70's it's been one percent or less, and it's current budget is .55% of the federal budget, a mere $17.2 billion. The DOT has a budget of $70 billion.
GPS is a DoD thing, but don't for a minute think NASA research in satellites and rockets didn't play a big part in it. Cell phones are a direct result of NASA. So it the MRI and the DVD and the smoke detector. NASA-led research on microchip technology started off for one thing, and has led to the digital camera. The entire quest to make things smaller, miniturization, came directly out of NASA. The battery powered drill that was used to take core samples of the moon advanced drills and batteries by leaps about bounds, almost of it having made it into consumer-level cordless power tools. Most of the advancement in computer graphics and error correction of data has come directly out of NASA's decoding of pictures and other data that arrives from distant satellites being carried on power that is equivalent of a feather hitting the ground.
The thermal reflective window coverings I use is the same exact material that protects the Mars Rovers, the Space Station and a large number of satellites. It was developed under direct contract for NASA.
Neither did Wonder Bread but Tang went to the moon!
Considering this solar system may have less then 2 billion years left of life before the sun goes super nova....should we wait till the last moment to find a new home?
It is money well spent.
It is money well spent.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Sorry turtle, I can't agree with the 5 times back premise. I have heard that argument a lot but it doesn't hold water.
My point is that we always could do a lot of this within the private sector more efficiently and have been doing a lot of technology transfer from the universities for a long time without such the cost as incurred with NASA. Irregardless what the percentage of the federal budget is, the return is less than what it should be and just the space vehicle program alone, time and money is wasted in just the planning stages without any vision set as it was in other projects.
In addition to this, NASA has become too political with other issues (global warming for one, internationalizing for another) and if there was ever a place for streamlining government, it is NASA.
My point is that we always could do a lot of this within the private sector more efficiently and have been doing a lot of technology transfer from the universities for a long time without such the cost as incurred with NASA. Irregardless what the percentage of the federal budget is, the return is less than what it should be and just the space vehicle program alone, time and money is wasted in just the planning stages without any vision set as it was in other projects.
In addition to this, NASA has become too political with other issues (global warming for one, internationalizing for another) and if there was ever a place for streamlining government, it is NASA.
Most of the work on GPS was done by private contractors. They were contracted to build the hardware and software. NASA was involed only to the extent that they control all US orbital launches. The agency I worked for performed much of the timing experiments on that project. We were working in "leap nano-seconds" when running those tests. It was very time consuming, nerve racking and expensive. I did not enjoy those days.
I do suport most money spent on NASA. While I agree that we would be much further ahead if private industry was running the show there is one very real truth. Not ONE dollar has ever been spent in space. They all have been spent here. Every bit created jobs. Good jobs for everyday people. Like the small plant in Franklin PA that makes stabilizer fins for NASA atmospheric sounding rockets.
Layoutshooter
I do suport most money spent on NASA. While I agree that we would be much further ahead if private industry was running the show there is one very real truth. Not ONE dollar has ever been spent in space. They all have been spent here. Every bit created jobs. Good jobs for everyday people. Like the small plant in Franklin PA that makes stabilizer fins for NASA atmospheric sounding rockets.
Layoutshooter