What grade would you give?

Rate George W. Bush

  • Excelent: A

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Above average: B

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Average: C

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Below average: D

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fail: F

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Total voters
    24

flattop40

Expert Expediter
Many pundits are wanting to give President Bush a grade. I say first off its not fair to give a general grade. You have to look at his whole term in office. They all want to look at his final year of office. I break it down by 2 year increments.

1st 2 years: A

2nd 2 years: B

3rd 2 years: B

4th 2 years: F

So if I had to give a final grade it would have to be a C.

Many are saying he is the worst president in history. I say hog wash.

He was not impeached. He kept us safe after 911. He did not misuse a cigar in anyway.:eek: Yes he put us into a war but that was after we were attacked and over 3000 people were killed. Previous to this when we had over 3000 people killed we went to war and had hundreds of thousands of people killed and yet Rosevelt is looked at as one of the better presidents. Hell he's on Mt. Rushmore. Last I heard we have only lost just over 4000 and took out a tyrant that had killed hundreds of thousands if not more.

So, is he the worst? I say no...... not great but by far not the worst.
 
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chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I agree you can't give a general grade but i did put a C there. You have to llok at each aspect over his yrs in office. 1st i am not a dem or a repub, i consider myself a converative independent leaning towards a Constitutionalist.

For me bush screwed up as much as he did good. His actions after 9-11 kept us from being attacked again, and don't think for a minute that we won't be with osamaba and biden and hilary in control. His domestic economic policy is nothing short of a liberal democrat, but in his war policy i'd give him a b-, it would have been a B if he hadn't backed down to the libs in his placating them and not letting our military do what they are trained for, kill people and break things and an A+ if he had had the guts to go with israel and nuke iran. I have no issue with using nuclear weapons at all,oil burns really hot and sand makes nice glass.

Thats just 2, but he did what he felt he had to and overall i am ok with him, not great, but ok. As far as the worst president, not by a long shot....Although he did his share of abusing the Constitution........
 
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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
I, too, would give Geo. W. Bush a "C". He was a huge disappointment to us conservatives. His heart was in the right place with the war on terror. However, he and I part ways on nearly all other aspects of governing. Way too liberal for the most part. Supreme court nominees were excellent, that's about it.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Previous to this when we had over 3000 people killed we went to war and had hundreds of thousands of people killed and yet Rosevelt is looked at as one of the better presidents. Hell he's on Mt. Rushmore

That's young Theodore "Beaver" Roosevelt on Mount Rushmore. Bully! Bully!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I gave him a "C" but a "C-" would have been more like it. WAY too much into the socialism. He did NOT get us into this war. Jimmy Carter did. Clinton insured that it would go down the tubes like it did. Bush was forced to react to the extremely poor leadership and lack of attention from those 2 Dumbecrats. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
So your supposed to have a government...for the people , by the people and when the "people" WANT government involvement...just look at the voters?

So you have a government that would IGNORE the peoples wants and rule by the Constitution only? A document written so long ago in a different time, a different way off life that in some ways its obsolete.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The Constitution sets the limits of the FEDERAL Government. Anything that is not the care of the Constitution, is the states rights, thats where you can have your entitlement programs, not on the fed level, its that simple..

And by the way, the Constitution is NOT a living document, it is what it is and it is the law of our land. It can be ammended by a vote of the people, but not by a want of the elected reps...You want to play with "living documents" that can be changed as you go and made to "fit" the current want or need, come to my place, we will play poker with my "living rules!" :D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You are correct, the Constitution was written to set Limits on the power of the Federal Government. State have rights but WE and ONLY WE hold the power. The people. The reason the Second Amendment was written. Our system was set up with many 'checks and balances" The "Armed Citizen" is the ultimate check and balance. The "Founders" knew that Government will "Always" fall into tyranny, like it is now, and put that Amendment in to insure that, WE the PEOPLE could counter-act that tyranny. Health care and all that other fluff is not worth your freedom. Nothing is. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
You are correct, the Constitution was written to set Limits on the power of the Federal Government. State have rights but WE and ONLY WE hold the power. The people. The reason the Second Amendment was written. Our system was set up with many 'checks and balances" The "Armed Citizen" is the ultimate check and balance. The "Founders" knew that Government will "Always" fall into tyranny, like it is now, and put that Amendment in to insure that, WE the PEOPLE could counter-act that tyranny. Health care and all that other fluff is not worth your freedom. Nothing is. Layoutshooter

Aw ha..you call it fluff, but a lot of voters want fluff..they voted in Obama to get fluff....isn't that the will of the people?...or just your way of thinking, which happens to be in the minority by the looks of it.....
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
OVM Sir, we don't have many sacred cows in this country. But you have a problem with the US Constitution? It is the most benevolent, divine document produced by the minds of men. All other democracies are just hangers-on. The United States is progenitor supreme of individual liberty. Yes, it was written long ago but it is a living, breathing document subject to revision as needed by the admendment process.
It is an arduous task to make changes to the Constitution, as well it should be. The Founding Fathers foresaw the need for an admendment process and clearly proscribed methods for doing so. We have amended the Constitution 27 or 28 times, I lose count. Indirectly, no nation on earth is safe from tyranny were it not for that document. From it sprang the greatest force for good ever known.
I suggest, for anyone who hasn't done so, travel to Washington,DC and stand before the original document and read it carefully to yourself. Then, read it again and let it sink in. The bone-chilling power and majesty of the US Constitution is only surpassed by the Holy Bible.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Constitution does not allow for that "fluff" You have to amend the Constittution to get it. It will be done with lies and no amendments. The Constitution will be gone and so will our Freedom. You might not understand that. You came from Canada. You CHOSE to remain under the "Thumb" of the "Crown" Europe has little freedom, and little history of freedom. They have for the most part, always been ruled. They still are. I CHOSE to live free. My constitution is the most AMAZING document EVER in the History of ManKind. I am not old fashioned. It is not my fault that soooo many Americans are stupid, lazy and have nose rings to make it easier to lead them around. I don't have one. I learned my "Rights" a long time ago. I don't accept todays cry baby wooses who would rather be card for than live free. You deserve NOTHING if you give up your freedom. Maybe you can be ruled, I cannot. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
OVM Sir, we don't have many sacred cows in this country. But you have a problem with the US Constitution? It is the most benevolent, divine document produced by the minds of men. All other democracies are just hangers-on. The United States is progenitor supreme of individual liberty. Yes, it was written long ago but it is a living, breathing document subject to revision as needed by the admendment process.
It is an arduous task to make changes to the Constitution, as well it should be. The Founding Fathers foresaw the need for an admendment process and clearly proscribed methods for doing so. We have amended the Constitution 27 or 28 times, I lose count. Indirectly, no nation on earth is safe from tyranny were it not for that document. From it sprang the greatest force for good ever known.
I suggest, for anyone who hasn't done so, travel to Washington,DC and stand before the original document and read it carefully to yourself. Then, read it again and let it sink in. The bone-chilling power and majesty of the US Constitution is only surpassed by the Holy Bible.

I have no problem with the way it is written....I was stating observations here and in print and conversations....It is a work of art...

and Joe...my teacher and mentor of the way things should be..:)..You should know I meant no foul....it is just my aggravating way of stimulating the thought processes....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Bowing Deeply" I am proud to be your teacher and mentor!!!! Think FREE at all times. NOTHING in this life is more important. You are the man. Not Obama. Not Bush. You and only you can do what is best for you. Life and the freedom to live it WITHOUT the interference of a over-bearing, all rulling government is what our Country is about. The ONLY country on this earth that has freedom. Do not be fooled into giving that up. Shoot, I stand when the Anthum is played, my hat over my heart. I salute, a crisp military salute when our Flag is raised or lowered. I will fight ANYONE that tries to end this grand experiment in freedom. What an amazing idea, the thought that you know what is best for you. Not the President, not the "Crown" but OVM. What power. Do not chose to lose that. Layoutshooter
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I would also agree that "C" would be appropriate. In spite of the claims to the contrary by Democrats, Bush is not a conservative Republican. His war policy was spot on, and he's kept the country free of terrorist attacks while taking the fight to them on their own turf. His economic policies were mostly successful except for his refusal to veto excessive spending bills. His domestic policies, especially those involving the tolerance of illegal Mexicans, have been disappointing to say the least. He may have taken positions that some would say attacks our civil rights (wiretaps, monitering of banking activities, etc), but I think these were the right things to do in the face of potential attacks from radical Muslim terrorists. I would ask anyone that participates in this discussion to describe how these anti-terrorism policies have adversely effected their daily lives. The ACLU can squeal all it wants about the human rights of GITMO prisoners and terrorists that might have been tortured, but this only amounts to more liberal whining that is not in touch with the reality of war. In all, he did a fairly decent job under extremely difficult circumstances.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Under the Geneva Convention those Gitmo prisioners should have been shot. Bush did not prosecute the war with enough agresssion. I would have carpet bombed Iraq for AT LEAST 3-5 months and THEN hit them with 500,000 troops. Then sit down and talk. AFTER we wiped the slate clean. That is how WW2 was won. You can't "Play Nice" with these people. Layoutshooter
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Y'all keep insisting (as does Bush himself) that he kept us from being attacked again - if you believe that, with no evidence except the fact that we haven't been attacked (again), then have I got a deal for you: an anti-lightning suit of my own invention, which I can prove is effective, as I've never been struck. :rolleyes:
Bush failed miserably - to find the real villain (Bin Laden), to persuade most of our allies that Iraq presented a convincing threat to us, to prevent the financial meltdown we're now trying to avoid, to improve education (his No Child Left Behind was a total failure at anything but improving test scores, which are NOT a reliable indication of anything except the ability to pass a test - this time), to improve the situation for anyone in the country except the already wealthy (tax breaks, reduction of capital gains rates, lax oversight of the agencies charged with keeping the 'market' on the up & up, etc, ad nauseum)
He "wasn't impeached" - glory be, what an accolade! He "didn't do anything improper with a cigar" - that we know of, anyhow, and again: what an accolade that is, eh?
Bush was (so far) the worst president ever, IMO, leaving America in much worse shape than he found it. The recovery will not be easy, and I only hope Obama can get a good start on rebuilding the trust that Bush has lost, both at home and abroad. On that score, only time will tell.
I hope that government "of, by, and FOR the people" hasn't already perished from the Earth, entirely, because it hasn't been seen here for a long time.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cheri, no offense, but I have read things that you have written before. One thing is clear. You know as little about defense or the intell services as Obama does. I don't like Bush, but he is NOT the one that gutted our defenses, Clinton did. Bush has been working very hard to rebuild the damage but it will take at least 20 years to repair what Clinton did. That is, unless Obama pulls a Carter and Clinton and finishs off our defenses. We can argue policy, morals etc. Defense is the MAIN job of the Federal Government. It is NOT a job for rookies. I will tell me nephew and son to strongly think about getting out of the service the next time they are up for re-enlistment. Frankly, I would not serve under Obama. I refused to serve under Clinton and was proved right. From what I see of the American people anymore, they are just not worth the trouble. Over 1 million Americans have died to defend our freedom. This election proves it was a waste of lives. I hold nothing against you or your ideas, but it seem that they are based on the "Regular" news and not on what is really going on. Many fall for the "Stuff" them by the "Awful Broadcasting" 'Communist News network" "Crummmy Broadcasting system" "Nutty Broadcsasting" and "Foolish Fox" I get my news from those on the front lines. Those who do, not talk. I pray I am wrong but I fear that all of us, including you, are going to pay a horrible price by delving into Marxism. That way of life accounted for the murder of close to 100 million people last century and is still murdering today. By the way, we might now have got Bin Ladin. We did not get Stalin or Hitler, but we still beat them. Layoutshooter
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Gotta disagree, (surprise!). First, that defense is the main job of the President, (though it's certainly your main preoccupation, which is understandable, given your personal background). Defense is just one of many areas for which the President and his chosen delegates are responsible. It's certainly the first priority in times of imminent danger, (such as 9/11), but otherwise should not be consuming the majority of our resources - when it is, there's something wrong, I'd say. America has appointed itself a 'Master of the Universe", which is ironic, given the mess our economy, not to mention health, education, and infrastructure are currently in.
"Government of, by, and for the people" - which part of that is so hard for everyone to understand? The people don't want to rule the whole world, we want to grow up in peace, raise our families, educate our offspring, pay our bills, buy a home, save for retirement - you know: "The American Dream", right?
PS You're wrong about where I get the news from, too: I haven't watched tv in many years now, just surf the net, gathering (like a rolling stone, lol) whatever interests me, from a variety of sources. I am not as knowledgeable as some, but I have strong opinions on how the government is meant to work - and hasn't for awhile, but most especially on W's watch..
 

flattop40

Expert Expediter
Gotta disagree, (surprise!). First, that defense is the main job of the President, (though it's certainly your main preoccupation, which is understandable, given your personal background). Defense is just one of many areas for which the President and his chosen delegates are responsible. It's certainly the first priority in times of imminent danger, (such as 9/11), but otherwise should not be consuming the majority of our resources - when it is, there's something wrong, I'd say. America has appointed itself a 'Master of the Universe", which is ironic, given the mess our economy, not to mention health, education, and infrastructure are currently in.
"Government of, by, and for the people" - which part of that is so hard for everyone to understand? The people don't want to rule the whole world, we want to grow up in peace, raise our families, educate our offspring, pay our bills, buy a home, save for retirement - you know: "The American Dream", right?
PS You're wrong about where I get the news from, too: I haven't watched tv in many years now, just surf the net, gathering (like a rolling stone, lol) whatever interests me, from a variety of sources. I am not as knowledgeable as some, but I have strong opinions on how the government is meant to work - and hasn't for awhile, but most especially on W's watch..

WOW Cheri who lit the fuse on your tampon? I don't think I have seen you this outspoken before. It's kind of a turn on ;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Y'all keep insisting (as does Bush himself) that he kept us from being attacked again - if you believe that, with no evidence except the fact that we haven't been attacked (again), then have I got a deal for you: an anti-lightning suit of my own invention, which I can prove is effective, as I've never been struck. :rolleyes:
Heheheh .... excellent point ..... it's kinda like goin' to the track with a buddy .... and your buddy wins the long odds .... and you claim that you caused it .... simply 'cause you were there, standing next to him ..... afterall ..... it's just so obvious ....

I'm utterly amazed at how easily people will assign a source of causation to something or someone ..... all without the benefit of direct observation ...... "Bush did this ..." ..... and "Clinton did that ..."

Quite likely what kept us from being attacked again was not anything that Bush or Cheney did .... but things done by many folks whose names we'll never know .... in the intelligence community, the armed forces, and Homeland Security, among others ..... (it's to some extent, like a machine ... it runs on automatic to a degree)

Just as what got us attacked in the first place was not anything that Bush (II) or Cheney did specifically .... but things done (in our name) by many folks whose names we'll never know (and a few we do) .... in the intelligence community, the armed forces, and Homeland Security, among others .....

Bush failed miserably - to find the real villain (Bin Laden),
Strike one ......

to persuade most of our allies that Iraq presented a convincing threat to us,
Strike two ....

to prevent the financial meltdown we're now trying to avoid,
Not only did he fail to prevent it - but he's actually made it worse - much, much worse.

But then I would say the financial mess didn't just happen .... it was caused .... same as the Great Depression ..... same players for the most part .... sometimes under different names ....

Anybody noticing that some major financial entities (Chase, Bank of America) are picking up these supposedly bankrupt firms for a pittance ?

And being given your tax dollars to do it ...... wake up folks .....

Osama, while a real threat, ain't but a fly ..... Hamas ..... last time I looked, they weren't able to even mount an effective attack on their neighbor next door - let alone an ocean away ....

No, the real enemies are much closer to home ..... but the above, and others like them, make real good devices to fixate your attention ..... lest you look around other places

He "wasn't impeached" - glory be, what an accolade!
Yes indeed .... like he was really going to be .... given that his party for the most part controlled both Houses ...

The logic of that point is like "I've never gotten a ticket ... or been in a wreck ... so that means I'm a great driver !" ..... yeah .... sure it does ..... :rolleyes:

Bush was (so far) the worst president ever, IMO, leaving America in much worse shape than he found it.
Hard to argue against statistics .... ain't it ? .... happened on his watch ....

He's the dimwit that brought in Hank Paulson as Treasury Sec ... the head of a Wall Street firm ..... that gave away $700 billion of YOUR MONEY .... well ... your's .... and your children's ..... and their children's ..... ad nauseam .....

And he wanted to do it with literally no strings or oversight ..... ("Just trust us .... it's bad - but we can fix it .... but it's so bad that we can't even tell you the details ..... just trust us - you really don't want to know ... and besides it's too complex for you to understand ....")

Most folks really don't understand the magnitude of the financial crimes that have been committed by Bush & his cronies against the American people ...... between Iraq (which some are getting rich off of), the bailouts, .... and the rest of the profligate spending that took place on his watch (while having both Houses of Congress controlled by his party ......)

You (meaning people generally) have been sold into economic slavery (not only that - but your children - and their children, as well) ..... and yet you still believe you are free .... it would almost be hilarious ... if it weren't so sad ....

The biggest thing that Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress could have done to preserve Freedom and Liberty in the United States would have been to abolish the income tax and eliminate the IRS - because it is thru that mechanism that we are, and will be, enslaved - and it is the single biggest thing which makes us, as a country, uncompetitive. Forget the UAW and the unions - while they don't help matters, they aren't as big of a problem as some would make them out to be - mostly a red herring. The biggest thing is that the cost of the income tax (and the all the compliance costs) and the regulatory burdens that companies have to live under here in the US are incorporated into the price of everything we produce ... and are not in the price of foreign produced goods that we have to compete against ....

They actually floated some trial balloons on eliminating the tax code and the IRS right after he took office ..... I was there (in DC) at the time ..... fighting that fight. ...... it ended up going nowhere .... the sheeple were too busy watching American Idol and Survivor to demand change .... and various "interests" had no interest in changing the status quo ...... why change anything - if you have already rigged the playing field to your (sometimes exclusive) advantage thru the law and the tax code ?

The recovery will not be easy, and I only hope Obama can get a good start on rebuilding the trust that Bush has lost, both at home and abroad. On that score, only time will tell.
One can always hope .... but I ain't holding my breathe ....

Sometimes when confronted with situations of magnitude, a rather common man may rise to the occasion and do great things ....

But my bet is Obama is just another pol ..... like the many that have passed before him .....

I hope that government "of, by, and FOR the people" hasn't already perished from the Earth, entirely, because it hasn't been seen here for a long time.
At least 50 years .... really, more like close to 100 .....

BTW, my views are not based on "the regular news" ..... rarely, if ever watch it - like Cheri, I get my info from many places ..... including from a few sources "inside the Beltway" .... (I could post some really cute candid photos of the shrub at the wh - they're at home on the desktop - but it might get in me in hotwater ...... :eek:)

Grade by the way is: F
 
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