Van or Sprinter

[chefdennis]

Ok, I'll be at the expo on fri, probabaly not sat, but will be simply going to talk face to face with recuriters, nothing more.

So here is my story,I have been reading here for over a yr. I certainly do NOT know everythung about this business, but what you might call "eniugh to hang myself I am a 55 y/ retired male, owns 3 businesses 2 as and absentee owner, 1 I work as a specialty chef when i feel like it, mostly fri or sat evenings and that can easily be left to one if my boys to deal with when I am not home. Retirement plan is not a concern as it is in place now. Health and medical insurance is already in place and has been for over 6 yrs (I pay it myself). Wife is also self employed. This business would only be required to pay for itself and pay me a wage, nothing big but a few grand gross over expenses.

I will use my money for up front / started up but the business has to make money from day one. I undrstand that this business does not make money everyday and there is "downtime waiting for loads, other than that, I know nothing about the expediting business other then what I have read here over the last yr.

Now my temperment and personality would not allow me to work for someone else and drive their equipment (my mom once said,"there was no woman in her right mind that would put up with me for very long so I needed to know how to take care of myself", that is also true with an employer, hence being self employed for more years then i care to think about) , so I will be buying a used vehicle to decide if i really enjoy this. Time away from home isn't a giant deal, but being home 4-6 days a month would be nice. Being out 3 weeks at a time isn't an issue.

I read all the time the the cargo van end of this business is saturated and miles are not what they once were. I am not sure if a sprinter would be much better and am leaning towards a extended 1 ton GM unit as a stratup and if i like this deal, i'll go from there, maybe a sprinter within the year, maybe not if the van is doing what it has to do.

As for business plans, insurance, and the other necessary items, as i said I don't know everything, only what i have read here. I have simply set up the business plan as i have with any other business i have been in and either made it or ran it into the ground and closed it,some work, some don't, this would be no different. The not making it would simply be for lack of miles, not my ability to stay on the road. so since I don't require much of this business, the business plan is simple and short. And personally form my own standpoit and business plan is always a work in progress and never complete and one is always looking for other "income streams" and changes are a way if life in being your own business owner.

So i guess my question is, are the miles available to a sprinter that much more to justify that vehicle over a 1 ton ex van, and at this point, will a Van pay for itself and a small wage for the driver? Agin all this business has to do is pay for itself and a small wage, nothing else, but it has to do that or it won't be what i do for long!!

Oh if this works with either a van or sprinter, I'll be looking at a solo straight truck after what 2 yrs maybe less if i can see that this is a good business fit for all concerned.

Thanks for any and all comments and maybe i'll see a few of you at the Expo..

Oh one other thing, this vehicle will most probably we owned my by equipment leasing company and i will start a LL corp. at this point, maybe a DBA until i decide if I am going to stay with this, and i will be a employee.

 

[Jack_Berry]

there is no correct answer. if you have read the debate for the last year you know.

if money is no object then spend 25k on a used sprinter with 200k on it. for that same money you could buy a new gm or ford cargo van. lots of gm/ford starter vans for lots less than a used sprinter in the classifieds.

my van fit my need for entry level. it will get modified as time goes on.

i know this is not a definitive answer. only you know your reserves and can put a value on your purchase.

 

[mrcornell18]

depends on the company you sign on with and the freight they get. A sprinter can usually hold more skids and weight than a standard cargo van. I have a e350 unicell body. So I can take 4 skids and have ramps that can get me dock high. A regular van you can take 2-3 skids. A sprinter you can take 4 i believe but not get dock high. I can take 4 skids and get dock high. You have to weigh your options. If you just want to dive in to see if this business works. It dont matter what vehicle you have. If you have a junk carrier that dont have good pay and good freight it may not work for you. My best advice would be not having experince you can expect to go with a lower class company to get your 6 months to a year experience then you can be free to go with a better paying carrier with more freight.

I was in the same boat you are in 3 years ago when I started. I knew what company I wanted to sign on with but I needed experiance. I sucked it up with a lower carrier to get my 6 months then went to the carrier I wanted. As of now I hhave a van and just bought a straight truck and looking for another. So this business can work. Dont get to frustrated to fast. While your out there at the truck stop talk to other drivers. You will learn lots.

 

[flattop40]

You are in the same exact shoes I was in last year. Did alot of home work and jumped in last nov. I ended up going with a newer used van (under 100k miles) payments are real resonable. I have a ford e350. with that in mind I can actually haul more weight then the 3/4 ton sprinter that most people have. If you get a 1 ton sprinter now you have to deal with DOT log books cause they can go up to 11,000 lbs total and deal with building a sub floor between the wheel wells. I can haul 3 full sized skids and 4 smaller skids. Plus I have been told the main. on the sprinter is like 3-4 times that of a standard van.

However, sprinters do get better gas mileage but they burn deisel avg about 22-26 from what I have been told I get 19-21 however I am gas and as you know gas is still cheaper so when you factor that in its about a wash. They also give you much better head room. Theres nothing like putting on a pair of pants on your knees lol.

I too have tossed this idea around even after getting into it and there is no clear cut answer. Also keep in mind over 90% of all sprinter/cargo loads can go into either one so you are competing against both anyway.

Long story short I went with the van. Less start up costs and less monthly costs. But I do NOT agree with starting with lower company to get your feet wet. Start with one of the top 5 which I believe to be panther, fedex, landstar, tristate, or express 1. Why start out with a bad company and struggle anyway? do they think you have to go thru some right of passage? Oh well that is my opinion and I am sticking to it

 

[dcalien]

People make it in cargo vans and sprinters. People don't make it in cargo vans and sprinters.

I have a sprinter, and I know I get some loads I wouldn't get in a cargo van.

My maintenance costs are higher than those of a cargo van, and I agree with the post about the fuel being a wash.

You said pay for itself, and make a few thousand. If you mean a year, I would say no problem. If you mean a month, I wouldn't bet on it.

I would not think that signing on with a company you consider to be second or third rate would be a good idea at all.

Go for what you consider the best. I know you cannot know which company that is, nor could anyone tell you which company that is.

Lots of variables with different companies. I cannot stress strongly enough, that you must be willing to sit for hours or days at a time, waiting for that next load. It is one thing to read about it, and something else again to live it.

I am a newbie with 42 thousand miles in expediting, so I am hesitant to offer advice. I am surviving at this, though not supporting a lot of debt.

If I find expediting Nirvana, I would be glad to pass that along. I am still searching for the right fit for me, and I wish you the best of luck with your efforts.

 

[Roadpig]

The answer is save up for a straight truck. There are many reasons for this, because although expediting was built on the wheels of cargo vans:

* Customers want dock high equipment because workers do not want to put any extra work into loading a van.

* It is more cost effective for customers to store shipments until they have enough to put on a truck to multiple destinations (multiple drop loads)

* There is an over saturation of vans in this industry. That is why you often find a carrier that has put a cap on putting on vans.


IF you have to go with a van, Sprinters aren't worth the extra money unless you are spending it for the comfort. You will not be compensated more, or have more load opportunities with a Sprinter.

 

[slfisher45]

People make it in cargo vans and sprinters. People don't make it in cargo vans and sprinters.


"I would not think that signing on with a company you consider to be second or third rate would be a good idea at all.

Go for what you consider the best. I know you cannot know which company that is, nor could anyone tell you which company that is."


I think the suggestion for the lower tier company had to do with getting experience. Some companies won't hire drivers with less than 6 mos. experience.

 

[x06col]

if all you wanna do is get away for a while, check out a drive away company. There is NO investment you have to liquidate if you find it's not so much fun. They move all kinds of equipment around the U.S. and Canada. I'm particularly fond of moving the half mil$ motor coaches. Them'r class man.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Roadpig said."IF you have to go with a van, Sprinters aren't worth the extra money unless you are spending it for the comfort. You will not be compensated more, or have more load opportunities with a Sprinter."

I beg to differ with you ....my last 11 out of 14 loads were of the C class type....either too high or 3 skids and paid a HIGHER rate then a CV load.... Sprinters commonly steal more C loads then C/V loads thats why shippers ask for Sprinters.

Some carriers DO pay a premium rate for a sprinter Panther and Fedex don't UNLESS they really need you....

 

[chefdennis]

Thanks all! Your opinions are all well taken. I am not saying money is not an issue, i think it is for everyone, but I just don't need this business to pay any of my personal bills at all, nothing. As long as this endeavor can be self supporting and pay me, then it is not a money issue.

Maybe i can explain it better this way, I have been in business for myself for most of my adult life. When i look at a business, my i approach it from the standpoint of , i'll finance it with up front money and 6 months of operating capital. After that point, the business needs to pay its own bills and start to prepay my upfront involvment, if it can't do that, I liquidate the business. no more of my money goes into it. I never ask a usiness venture to pay any of my household expenses, health & medical insurances or make any contribution to any of my familes or my personal expenses, none.

Income needs for each of us it different, if I cleared $250 a week avg. after everything is paid, including paying back my original cash outlay, hell i live with that, (lol the buisness plan i did, and i know i didn't include everything didn't figure any wage for me at all) figuring lossing money one month then making it up in another and breaking even in another, its all in the game of any business. As for ALL of the expenses of a business, to be they are simply the cost of doing business and thats it, you will have them no matter what you do, so there is no sense worrying about what they are until you can't pay them, thats why a 6 month window to a business being profitable from that point. I understand it might not be one month, but that it will be another and break even one and make a killer profit one, it all evens out at the end of the year.

As for saving to buy a straight truck, i can do that now, but i am not going to layout that expense and then in a year decide, I am done with this. And as for the driveaway companies, As I said, my temperment and mentality is going to let me drive for someone else, so thats not an option. But yea i am sure driving those high dollar motorhomes can be nice!!

I am really leaning towards a 1 ton ex CV and putting a small sleeper in it and sticking to 2 pallets max and going from there. The sprinter has some advantages thats for sure, but getting rid of it if i decide this isn;t for me i think would be a bit more troublesome, there are a few more people that can put a CV to use then a biggest hitop sprinter (I could be totally wrong their, just my opinion).

As for the business paying for itself and paying me a few grand wage, sure thats a month, but it it ends up being a year, then i guesswe have to define a few grand! LOL! And Then i have to decide if i will stay in the business.

So thanks folks, i'll be at the Expo Fri all day, not sure about sat, but i'll gather as much info as i can and see what happens from there. I appreciate the input up to point and would like to see somemore from those of you that do this day in and day out.

I guess my needs are simple and i am just looking at this from a strictly business venture and not a income producing venture for 6 months to a year.

Thanks again!

 

[Jack_Berry]

chefdennis said...but I just don't need this business to pay any of my personal bills at all, nothing. As long as this endeavor can be self supporting and pay me, then it is not a money issue......

well then maybe a used sleeper sprinter is what you need. it appears this is more something to do than a profession. if you want to pay your travelling costs then do the sleeper sprinter. i think there is one in wisc in the classifieds.


dcalien said......
I am a newbie with 42 thousand miles in expediting, so I am hesitant to offer advice. I am surviving at this, though not supporting a lot of debt.

you have more experience than a newbie. your trials and crossroads are just as relevant as anyone elses.

 

[chefdennis]

Jack, thanks for the heads up on the sprinter, i didn't see it but will continue to look. As for this being a profession, well, I look at this as a business only. I own 3 small businesses now, as i said in 2 of those I am totally an "absentee owner" and have nothing to do with the day to day operations, they are my business, but not my profession, this would be the same, except i'd be doing this day to day hands on.

I guess I would say my profession is "business owner". As for just looking to cover "travel expenses, nah, I am not lookng to see the country or sightsee when I am in between loads, I hate doing the "tourist" lets go see this place deal. I'll be sitting right next to the rest of you , maybe taking an online course for something else to get into. I don't golf so thats out too, lol!! I am chef, lol, if you see me in a parking lot somewhere, you can bet, that I'll have something cooking and there should always be enough for more then one, i love leftovers,but sharing works too! LOL, chances are I'll take a bit of weight with cast iron skillets and cast dutch oven, pots and pans, a crockpot, butane gas burners and a grill of sometype, just to feed myself!!

So as I said, all i need is enough miles to pay the bills and life will be good.

 

[x06col]

Well bud, if you tink for a New York second, that signing on with one of the "big brother" companys is (not) driving for someone else then I really do have some beach front property for sale.

 

[chefdennis]

col wrote:

Well bud, if you tink for a New York second, that signing on with one of the "big brother" companys is (not) driving for someone else then I really do have some beach front property for sale.

LOL, that i totally understand. My issue for driving FOR another PERSON, is mainly, "the equipment belongs to them." I can't do with it what i **** well want and treat it as i would my own. It isn't about, "answering" to a boss, hell i answer to "her" now everyday, So I am aware that there will be people to answer to, and i can be soo **** polite it hurts!

Now as for the "beach front property"...................

 

[theBeemer]

I am not trying to be wise a-- but if you even think your going to make 2 grand a month above expenses let alone 2 grand wih expenses I will be honest with you and tell you to save your money. You can buy my van take over payments.Let me out of it. I am getting out of it.Things have come to a halt. If you want to sit three/four/five days in the hot sun with your van this is the job for you. Eather that or dead head 1000 miles plus to get a 300 mile load this is the job for you. These people stating here how well they are doing.They got some kind of thing going on. Every one I have talked to is going broke. I am leased to Panther the biggest of all. As of right now I have been on duty since SAturday when I came home,,Today is Tuesday...Their are better ways to throw your money away. At least I am honest.

 

[x06col]

Most usually da biggest ain't da best fit for everyone. Ya may wanna try someone that could help you. Then listen to them!!!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I am not trying to be wise a-- but if you even think your going to make 2 grand a month above expenses let alone 2 grand wih expenses I will be honest with you and tell you to save your money. You can buy my van take over payments.Let me out of it. I am getting out of it.Things have come to a halt. If you want to sit three/four/five days in the hot sun with your van this is the job for you. either that or dead head 1000 miles plus to get a 300 mile load this is the job for you. These people stating here how well they are doing.They got some kind of thing going on. Every one I have talked to is going broke. I am leased to Panther the biggest of all. As of right now I have been on duty since SAturday when I came home,,Today is Tuesday...Their are better ways to throw your money away. At least I am honest.

So beemer your gettin out...can't make it eh? First thing going against you...cargo van.....second thing Panther....
I'd like to ask you a couple questions...

When you go into a shipper are you pleasant?
Do you ask questions? Like gee my first time here...DO you ship many expedite loads? or You must ship a lot of expedite eh?

Now if the shipper say he/she does 5-10 loads a week sometimes more.....take notes and remember

There's more to expedite then just pick up and deliver and go wait...be more involved with the customers...get to know shipping patterns...PLAN to be around...once you get a patttern of 3-4 shippers in a given area you will know when to be there...look around the place...are they busy? This isn't a deadhead business you have to be on the ball and thinking of how to get an edge...that 1 extra load you get a few times aa month because you were paying attention can mean the difference of failure and success.

 

[CharlesD]

Every one I have talked to is going broke.

I would suggest talking to a few more people. There are even a few people with Panther who are doing ok. I'm not exactly going broke in a Sprinter. I'm not going to hit six figures either, but I'm not doing that bad. This business isn't for everyone. There have always been people who failed and people who succeeded. That isn't going to change.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Beemer neither Charles or I am trying to be a smarta$$...we have no reason to lie..it would serve you or I no good...We are telling you straight up...we aren't going to get rich as Charles said but we are making it...I would suggest as Charles did, ask around some more....look for those who sit apart from the crowd there likely doing better then the bunch standing around moaning and groaning....

We wish you luck....in your endeavers...

 

[aristotle]

Beemer... i"ve spent 7 years w/P2 operating a cargo van. Yes, this is the toughest climate I have seen for business. But. it can be done. The colonel and OVM gave you excellent advice. Find a mentor. Plenty are willing to help. Ovm's point about asking lots of questions of shippers is most important. Likewise, watch for the lone expediter sitting apart from the crowded truckstops. Don't follow the herd as it may be headed over a cliff.
Listen. Observe. Take notes. Remove yourself from crowded boards.