This Conversation

[tallcal101]

I find I'm having this discussion ,this weird little debate,more and more with colleagues,forum members,with liberals and moderates and miserable,deeply depressed republicans and politically amped persons of all shapes and stripes. I'm having it in paticular with those who who seem confused,angry,unsure,and they are saying the same thing: What the hell's the big deal about Obama?
I,as you well know have an answer. Sort of.
Let me be completely clear: I'm not arguing some sort of utopian revolution,a big global group hug with Obama as some sort of happy camp counselor. I'm not saying the man's going to swoop in like a superhero messiah and stop all wars and make flowers grow and birds sing and solve world hunger and bring puppies to little kids.

I'm not saying he's perfect, that his Presidency will be free of compromise,or more slimy insiders,or great heaps of politics as ususal.While Obamas's certainly an entire universe away from w in terms of quality ,integrity,INTELLEGENCE and over all positive and insightfull energy,so is my cat Slim.Hell,as I've said before it's not hard to stand far above and beyond the wost president in American history.

Now,this may sound like hippie dippy BS,and I understand that. But there's simply no denying that there is an extra kick in Obama.As one of my friends put it to me ,in a way it's not even about Obama.per se.There is a vast amount of young energy swirling around thats been held back by the armies of w and company,and this energy has found a conduit ,and real lightning rod. It's really like it's self- orginizing around Obamas candidacy: people with ideals and young emotions are automatically drawn to him. It's excactly like how those down and out parinoid, oppresed and aggresive types rallied so hard for w,only reveresed. And different.And far,far better.

I know,your not buying any of it.Think it's all a bunch of tofu-sucking New Age Bull**t. Obama is really a dangerously elitist political salesman whose inexperience will lead us further into darkness because,when you talking about national politics ,nothing really ever changes. I understand and get it.I mostly believe it myself.

Not this time.

 

[Turtle]

... and miserable,deeply depressed republicans....

...in terms of quality ,integrity,INTELLEGENCE and over all positive and insightfull energy, so is my cat Slim.

You lose all credibility, ever bit of it, when you make those kinds of statements.

But you don't care. You think you're credible, and that's all that matters.

HAND

 

[arkjarhead]

When I think of Obama I think of Merle Haggard's song "Rainbow Stew". Everyone thinks Obama is some kind of savior. The song says something like "when the politicians do what they say they're gonna do we'll all be drinking that sweet bubble lub and eating that rainbow stew". It's just not gonna happen regadrless of who is President. Deep down Obama and McCain and W and the Clintons are all one in the same. Sleeze balls that are just a little luckier than I am.

 

[layoutshooter]

Does he have a criminal record? I have a right to know.
What about his mortage? 1 point under market in his area, no points, no closing costs and no origination fee.
Like dead babies? Vote for Obama
Like killer taxes? Vote for Obama
Believe the the right of self-determination? Don't vote for Obaman

The worst president in history? Jimmy Carter, maybe Abe Lincoln

Yea, old Abe, the man who did not believe in states rights. Don't give me any bull about the civil war being fought to end slavery, it was not. It was fought over states rights and economics. Slavery was a side issue mainly used to increase enlistments in the Union States.

By the way, believe the the right to protect your self from crminals? Terrorist? or a Tyranicall government? Don't vote for Obama.

As for being a depressed Republican, bite me. I am not depressed, I am P*SSED off!! I don't like the Republican party, too leftist. I don't like the Demacrats, too leftist. I regret having spent 20 years of my life defending a people who, for a lot of them, did not deserve it. I cannot fathom voting to install a government that is exactly what I fought against for all those 20 years. I was born a free man and I will die a free man, most likely with Obama's help. He will kill US citizens on US soil. The only way he can assure his socialist state. I will not pay his tax increase. I will not give up my RIGHT to keep and bear arms. I will not participate in his national health program. All right all you leftists, how many like me are you willing to fight and kill? I have left you all alone, I have never forced you to do anthing. I can't way to see how much force will be brought to bear against me. Even more deaths than Slick Willy, you can bet your boots on that!!!! I am not a coward as Obama/Hiliary/Gore/all of them are. I stand by my beliefs. They have not the guts to say they are socialists. I am a capitolist. I believe in a free market. I belive that EVERY man is able to take care of himslef better than the government can. I believe that government is the cause of most problems, not the answer. LIVE FREE OR DIE!!! AND BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!! My mottos. Layoutshooter

 

[greg334]

Tallcal,
Interesting that you posted that.

I don't agree that Bush is all that dumb, there has to be some intelligence involved to get to become a senator or president, being dumb is not in the cards. In addition, I feel that what ever we both see, there are serious problems with him, with McCain, with Hillary and Obama - to be exact there is no one in the field today worthy of the job, maybe you would get my vote if you ran but anywho....

Obama is a product, he is not a leader. Sorry but I don't see any leadership qualities that I expect to be there for even senator. I see him as a product of the Chicago political machine, the same exact replica of Tammany Hall and their product Woodrow Wilson. He got to be senator not because he did anything fantastic but he had no opposition - a lot like Wilson and the NJ governorship.

Looking at his history in the Illinois state senate he voted against two major issues, one was saving the life of a child after an attempted abortion, I say child because that is the correct medical and legal term but it shows his lack of compassion. The other was to protect people who defended themselves by using deadly force; an issue that I think speaks of his 2nd amendment position.

As a senator, he has staged a lot of things, but only come up with two bills that past in the senate and these are not part of his campaign?

Those two were –

Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act

Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006


Can you tell me what these two have to do with being an effective leader?

I also don't buy into the defender of the people, taking up the cause for the poor and so on, many of us who have been doing just that don't live in million dollar homes or use that as a selling point for anything. He is no doubt the most groomed candidate we have had in a long time, no doubt that his handlers know what makes people get emotional so they use it to his advantage.

Like I have said, I don't want a black man as president but a leader – color don’t matter. We need a leader who can step away from the bullsh*t rhetoric of the past and move the country forward, mind you McCain can't do that but Obama can't either. Being black is not the qualifier but it is to too many people who have their head up their a**. It may also not be the advantage at this point because we are on the downslide in terms of race relations, moving away from Rev King's thought of what makes us better, not judging people by their skin color but by who they are. Putting forth the question “is America ready for a black president?” further steps us away from Rev King's dream and cheapens the entire country basing everything back to race and the twisted logic of some who can’t look at things any other way except them against us.

When we had serious racism in this country, we had a black man go to the white house and have dinner with a president, it was a republican who did that and it took us 40 years to get over that. When we were at the height of the prewar economy we had a minority in the white house, a fact ignored by every democrat and liberal. The sad thing is this was not a person from Africa but one that was of color and one what was part of a conquered race, Charles Curtis. It amazes me that no one wants to recognize this at all.

So I read an email form U of M today, it is from the economics department explaining the differences of the two plans presented by both candidates. In the first paragraph of the email it summarizes the problems we face, housing to interest rates to oil and so on. The second half deals with Obama’s plan and what it will do to the country. The third deals with McCain’s plan and the fourth part puts forth which plan will actually work and which plan will be better for the country. Opps I forgot to add, U of M is a rather liberal university and normally sides with any liberal thought or plan but… in the email it states clearly that Obama’s plan will lead us to bigger tax increases across the board and that will slow the economy down too much. They seem to be backing McCain’s plan but with the caveat that they are neutral.

Change, yep you may be surprised when your taxes go up a lot and people like me will be living in a box. Yep change you can believe in.

 

[layoutshooter]

Greg, you won't be allowed a box. The EPA will say they cause cancer, something about the glue used in the cardboard. Just like all those *boxes* (mobile homes) sitting around places like the Red River Army Depot in Texas. People like Hilary/Obama maybe McCain cannot stand small business or the self-employed. Too hard to control. Just try it Barack!!
Layoutshooter

 

[arkjarhead]

I see another civil war coming, but it isn't going to be exactly like the first one. I don't think it will be north vs. south. I think it will be more off a class type warfare. With the lower class a former middle class fighting the upper class. Most of the American military and police officers will side with the lower and middle classes I think. At least the majority of the enlisted men in the military will. It will something the upper class will start. I wish people would wake up and realize that the democrats and republicans aren't actually rivals, but friends in holding us all down and telling us what to do.

I remember as a child watching my baby sister being forced to take cold medicine. She is 6 years younger than me so I've got a good memory of this. Dad would hold her down and mom would pour the medicine in her mouth. I know you wondering what that has to do with anything. We are kind of like my baby sister, the republicans are like my dad, and the democrats are like my mom shoving that medicine we don't want in our throats. The only difference is were grown and live in a "free" society and should be able to decide whether we take our medicine or not. See what I mean.

 

[layoutshooter]

I see a civil war and Barack will most likely ignite it. I don't think class or race as much as urban vs. rural. Most rural people I know just mind there own business and don't force thier ideas on others. Not all, but most. City folk on the other hand, are different. Many, maybe most, want to drive thier ideas down my neck. They want to decide for me what I can or can't do. No hunting, no fishing, no eating meat, no self-defense etc etc etc. Only thing is I can't be told. Never even listened to my mom that much what makes anyone else think that can rein me in? LOL Layoutshooter

 

[tallcal101]

Man oh man,did that hit a nerve.!!!I
I thought I gave up a lot of ground in my semi litereate musings this afternoon. Get honest and get slammed around here. As I'm the sole proponant for anything that even slightly refects anything other then an over the top,reactionary ultra right wing ,closed minded,semi racist mob mentality around here,I should close my little poly sci lecture and stick with my whilte wine and soft cheese eating friends and be another nodding head (much like here). But I'm a trucker at heart,and share common themes here. It's all I've ever done,from driving to owning to managing to selling freight etc.I just happen to be open minded and don't support guns in slums,and a few other minor details like going to war because someone wanted too and not because some one had to. What a joker I am!!
I once again would like to remind you credibility is earned by what you do, not inflamitory rhetoric.In fact,you have some catching to do if your only claim to fame is a stint in the military ,which I have great respect for. Most of my freinds joined the Marines in 64 and ended up as casualties(dead and alive) and let down by a failed veterens administration that denied Agent Orange was a cause of any problems.They have my respect as they had to take on the VetAdmin with real weapons,words.They could have just stood around foolishly saying look at me ,I'm a hero.They fought for their rights,and endured critcism from vets orginizations and finally prevailed.I fought that battle with them even though I took a different position during that insane war,a positon I'm very proud to have taken. It may have saved many lives.
This country is worth the effort,and I will put my *** on the line,as I have done many times before,before I'll roll over to the dogs who have destroyed our country for last 8 years.
I'll dance in the streets when the last of these miserable skum bags slip back under their rocks.
If your going to go down with the ship and rage about how it's all Hillary and Bills fault(less we forget the peanut farmer)then have a nice time. Some of us are moving beyond the nightmare inflicted by the white guys and wish you all well in your doldrums.

 

[Turtle]

<Cue the Battle Hymn of the Republic>

​

"I fought that battle with them even though I took a different position during that insane war,a positon I'm very proud to have taken. It may have saved many lives."

​

Unions have priced themselves, and us, out of the world market, and liberals who have to be taken care of from cradle to grave with being absolved of personal responsibility and the stupefyingly obscene amounts of entitlements this country has to bear for lazy people who think the world owes them something is what is wrong with this country, and whatever may or may not have happened in the last 8 years pales pathetically in comparison. See if you can wrap your open mind around that one.

​

 

[layoutshooter]

Sorry Talcal101, I NEVER mentioned black or white guys. Color is of no matter. Period. Maybe people in the slums should not shoot each other, I am not shooting anyone. I have control over my self. I don't commit crimes. No need for anyone else too either. Period. Poverty is not the cause of crime, loss of pride is. Welfare did that. It continues to do that.
Barack has NO qualifications to fill the job. McCain has little. Most do not. Follow the Constitution. The government is NOT your safety tit or anyone elses. People should take 100% responibilty for thier own lives. I took it for mine. Nothing stopping anyone from living a proper life. By that I mean, supporting your self. Rasing your kids. Living crime free. If you have to move to find work, do it. I did, many times. I am fed up about hearing how people cannot fend for themselfs. Just as many poor blacks have made it as poor whites. We just never get to hear about them. People just need to get off thier butts and go for it. The Irish were forbidden to read by thier English oppressors, so they hid behind the hedge rows and taught thier children to read anyway. Many died doing so. The Jews did the same in Nazi Germany. Every group of people has been oppressed from time to time, they got over it. I rasied my kids. I use my guns responablly. I served my country for 20 years. I serve my communtiy in many ways. I take care of my wife and myself with no help. I believe in charity that is given not forced by a government. I CHOSE to give to who or what I want. NO ONE has the right to take what I earn and give it to BUMS!! Period. Don't like my attitude? TOUGH! I have the right to have it, as do yours, I made sure of that for 2o years. NO MAN will take my rights away. NO MAN. Layoutshooter

 

[layoutshooter]

I blame Hillory/Bill/Obama,/McCain/Bush 1 and 2/Reagan/Nixon/Carter etc etc etc. They have all been socialists. Bush2 is responible for the biggest socialist program since Medicare/Medicade. The prescription drug care thing. None of them are any good. The last president that really did something to change this country was Dwight D. What he did was real change, not the crap these gobbers today are talking about. It was a change as dramatic as Edison's light bulb. What was that? The Interstate-Defense Highway Sytem. Like or not, it was that big a thing. The rest? Sucked. The next will too. I don't really care who wants what, who gets what. Just don't steal from me and leave me alone. Layoutshooter

 

[LDB]

...Obamas's certainly an entire universe away from w in terms of quality ,integrity,INTELLEGENCE and over all positive and insightfull energy,so is my cat Slim.

This is where you lose any possibility of credibility. It's all about the Bush hatred and contempt with most liberals, not about credible dissent. Obama really hasn't any experience to speak of, certainly not of the duration or level for this job. Who's going to jump a six month entry level accountant who doesn't even have CPA level yet all the way to CEO of the largest corporation in existence? We point out the facts of his lack of experience, historically proven to have failed socialist agenda and other factual reasons he's an even worse choice than the bad option of McCain. You compare a cat to Bush. You are entertaining though.

 

[layoutshooter]

Right ON LEO!!! Barack is not qualified to tie my shoe. All smart remarks aside, if a man came to you with that backround, would you hire him? I would only put him in an entry level position. He does not have the experiance for anything else. I use to demand a criminal backround/credit check for full time retail help. Should we not have to know the same thing about the man who would run this country? Is that really asking too much? The way I look at it, he don't trust me, why should I trust him? Why do I say that? I have to pass a FBI check to excercise my RIGHT under the constitutionn to keep and bear arms. Should the person that would be president ant have the trigger to the most powerful arsenal in the world at his finger tips have to do the same? Same with random drug tests. Shoot, we have to go through more to get our HAZMAT certs than they do to be president. Layoutshooter

 

[Tennesseahawk]

It's really like it's self- orginizing around Obamas candidacy: people with ideals and young EMOTIONS are automatically drawn to him. It's excactly like how those down and out parinoid, oppresed and aggresive types rallied so hard for w,only reveresed. And different.And far,far better.

Cal... the above capitalized word says it all.

And by the paranoid, oppressed, and aggressive types, do you mean those of us who think with our brain, and actually give a damm where this country is headed? Because those who think with EMOTION, are wanting Utopia, as you put it; and are buying into the Shan-gri-la Kool-aid Obama is peddling.

I don't WANT a world government, Cal. I don't WANT to try to appease the enemies who have shown they'd just assume cut your head off with a hacksaw, rather than discuss our differences. You continue to overlook facts in the matter, and rely on EMOTION to guide you. Fact is, power keeps this country going, Cal... and it doesn't come from flowers. It comes from ingenuity, entrepreneurship, and drive. EMOTION has no place in the success of a capitalistic society... other than with lawyers and politicians. Even there, you can see that they don't add to it; they just take away.

 

[layoutshooter]

Hey TallCal101, are you from Detroit? California? Just wondering. I knew a guy name Cal from Detroit, he was very tall. Just wondering. Layoutshooter

 

[Moot]

I once again would like to remind you credibility is earned by what you do, not inflamitory rhetoric.

So what you are saying is because of your constant inflammatory rhetoric your credibility is in question. Yea, I can live with that!

Man oh man,did that hit a nerve.!!!

 

[theoldprof]

Greg wrote: "Obama is a product, he is not a leader". I find it hard to believe, but I agree with you on this one, Greg. But then again, most of our politicians are a packaged product.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't think he is a leader either. I think he is owned my someone or some group and will do thier bidding if elected. Not that the rest have not been. I see no leadership qualities in the man. I would never go into a fire with him on the hose behind me. I think he is a goober in the first degree, but hey, what do I know? Do you trust him enough to put your life in his hands? Layoutshooter

 

[arkjarhead]

TallCal,
Why do you feel the need to personaly downgrade people? When you talk down about someone's military service that is all you are doing. Most veterans take great pride in their service. Even ones that were drafted in. It makes no sense to make things personal. You can't handle people who different views than you. If you ask me that's not very open minded. An open minded person doesn't downgrade or call people names just because they don't agree with them. I know you think I'm a racist, and that's fine because you don't know me. You keep living in your little Utopia and think what you want to about people where I live. Truth be told we all get along pretty well until outsiders come in stirring up the pot.

Another thing. The man I wanted to run for President is black. That's Colin Powell I think he would be a good President for the times we are in now. As long as he brought on a good VP with a good economic head on his shoulders to help get our economy lined out. I still can't figure why Obama was choosen. I know you think it's because people are tired of white guys. You say no one trusts a white guy. That raises another question. Are you white and not trust yourslef or non-white and racist? Since you call everyone else here racist I'd like to know.