The Trump Card...

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
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Personally, I could care less about Trumps tax returns. I could not image any possible thing, that had already been fine combed by the IRS, that would make me say OMG I never should of voted for him
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Maybe people just want a free class on how to maximize their own returns
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That's it exactly. People (liberals ,anti-Trumpers) say they want to get all up in his tax returns so they can find potential conflicts of interest, you know, for the good of the country, and democracy, and, of course, for the children, but what they really want is to get all up in his business so they can find out that he used legal loopholes to legally avoid paying taxes. "Shaaaaame on you, Trump." They believe rich people need to be turned into poor people so the poor won't be poor anymore.

Trump yesterday to Australia's PM: "You have better health care than we do."
Yep! They do. Australia has universal health care.
Once you get the government broadly involved in health care, which Obamacare did, the only destination that road can take you is universal health care. The republicans can try and detour it, but the detour still brings you back to the same road. It could happen as quickly as the end of Trump's second term (or within the next 8 years regardless of who is president), where the health care industry has strict price controls and we have government-controlled single-payer, universal health care.
just a tid bit from what my Dr here said about the cost of a single stent...50,000 to 70,000....he responded nonsense the whole procedure IHO no more then $10-12,000 tops for a day surgery....he hated to say it, but some things should be capped from greedy doctors and hospital board chairmens....
 

RoadTime

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
the only other alternative would be to repeal Obamacare, and then stop right there and don't do anything else. That would actually bring things back to a true free market.

That would have been fine with me. As it is now, after my rates doubled I needed to change plans, with very few options available (if I wanted to keep my doctor). Pretty much now have useless insurance unless I become seriously ill. With the first 6K totally on me, I'm not very encouraged to use it now :rolleyes:
 

Worn Out Manager

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Air Force
the only other alternative would be to repeal Obamacare, and then stop right there and don't do anything else. That would actually bring things back to a true free market.

That would have been fine with me. As it is now, after my rates doubled I needed to change plans, with very few options available (if I wanted to keep my doctor). Pretty much now have useless insurance unless I become seriously ill. With the first 6K totally on me, I'm not very encouraged to use it now :rolleyes:

When health insurance first became available it was intended to help those with serious illness, not pay for you to see a Dr. when you started sniffling. It has grown into becoming everybody's financial health assistance program. That being said I can't see in the Bill Of Rights where health insurance is a right instead of a privilege. But, personally, I do feel we have an obligation to provide some assistance to those in need. My biggest question is who gets to decide who is really in need? Take us (expediters) for example. Many of us had or could get jobs that offered health benefits. For personal reasons we each made the decision and chose this method of self employment. This is only a question, but, do we now become "a person in need" that should have government assistance? Affordable insurance is now, IMHO, a thing of the past. I can't agree with Turtle because insurance companies and sharks swim together, once they smell blood it's all over. They will never bring costs and deductibles down because they have no reason to. They have seen what the market will bear and that will become their new benchmark. We have no clear idea of what health care will look like in the future because it has a long way to go before the present "Obamacare" is replaced, and, the Senate and House may never agree, leaving O'Care in place. The End:nothingtoadd:
 

Turtle

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I can't agree with Turtle because insurance companies and sharks swim together, once they smell blood it's all over.
Not sure what we disagree on, since I agree with that 100 percent.

They will never bring costs and deductibles down because they have no reason to. They have seen what the market will bear and that will become their new benchmark.
Well, yes and no. They've seen what a mandated market will bear.

Obamacare, affectionately known as the Affordable Care Act, nearly instantly made healthcare un-affordable. By introducing federal money (otherwise known as "free money") into the mix. College tuition used to be very affordable, you could wait on tables and pay your way through college. Then the government made easy money available to pay for tuition, and tuition skyrocketed.

With Obamacare, you can pick out which sections look like they were written by the healthcare industry. If Obamacare were to be outright repealed, the incentive to buy overpriced insurance that supports overpriced procedures and medications would disappear, and the price of everything would drop through the basement floor, relatively speaking.

There are countries all over the world that have strict limits on the prices of medical procedures, medical equipment, and medications, accomplished either by price controls or mandated competition. Big Pharma lobbying is why we have laws that make it illegal to order prescription medication from other countries. They (Big Pharma, the FDA - who is 100% funded by Big Pharma, incidentally) will try and scare you into believing that those medications are not safe, because they aren't regulated by the FDA, but the reality is European and other world health regulators are far more anal about regulations than is the FDA. The same Lipitor manufactured by Pfizer sold in England, India, Barbados and Canada for $17 costs $142 in the US. The exact same $600 Epipen ($300 generic) in the US costs $69 in England ($31 generic).

US laws, thanks to big lobby money, encourage price gouging and medication monopolies. And Congress lets them get away with it as long as they don't go toooo overboard with it. Did you know the FDA doesn't even approve TV ads for prescription medication? The ads just go up, and if there's a problem, it's the FTC that steps in, usually long after the ads have done their job.

New Zealand (population of Los Angeles) is the only other country in the world besides the United States that allows direct-to-consumer (DTC) TV advertising of prescription medication. In the US it is allowed because of Big Pharma money lobbying in Congress, and in New Zealand it is allowed for mostly the same types of reasons, except New Zealand only allows advertising of pharmaceuticals manufactured in New Zealand (which is why most of the major US pharmaceutical companies have opened up manufacturing facilities in New Zealand in the last 10 years). And the medications which are advertised aren't even advertised for a specific widespread medical need that would help large numbers of people, they are advertised solely based on which medications have the largest profit margins.

It's all of this other crap that needs to be addressed in any healthcare bill.

Funny thing is, there are only two entities in the US that can put a stop of DTC advertising of prescription medications. One is the FDA, which is funded by pharmaceutical companies, and the other is Congress, which is also in large part <snort> funded by pharmaceutical companies.

Here's a fun fact: 62% of physicians (including my own, in a laughingly candid admission) have admitted to prescribing placebos to patients who have come into their offices demanding a medication they saw advertised on TV when the patient has no need for the medication, and the medication would do more harm than good.
 
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RoadTime

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Here's a fun fact: 62% of physicians (including my own, in a laughingly candid admission) have admitted to prescribing placebos to patients who have come into their offices demanding a medication they saw advertised on TV when the patient has no need for the medication, and the medication would do more harm than good.

Another interesting fact I learned the other day...

"The $395 billion US pharmaceutical industry spent $5.2 billion on advertising prescription drugs directly to consumers in 2015. Since 1962 these ads have been regulated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to ensure that they are not false or misleading. The United States and New Zealand are the only two countries where direct-to-consumer (DTC) advertising of prescription drugs is legal."
 
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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
A few years ago on The Big Bang Theory television show, Bernadette had a great line. Sheldon, Leonard, Howard, Amy and Raj are all university research scientists, while Bernadette works for big pharmaceutical company, and Penny is a waitress/aspiring actress (Penny has since become a sales rep for the same pharmaceutical company). They were speculating about their lives in the future.

Leonard says, "You don't go into science for the money."

Bernadette replies with, "Speak for yourself. Last month my company both invented and cured restless eye syndrome. Ka-ching, ya blinky chumps!"


The 1992 Prescription Drug User Fee Act (PDUFA) stipulated that a fee (now about $576,000) be paid to the FDA by the pharmaceutical companies for each new drug application. It increases by 3% every year. Today, the FDA receives about $260 million a year from these fees. The current budget for FDA personnel salaries is, not coincidentally, exactly that figure. So the FDA is in bed with, and dependent, on Big Pharma in a way that can only be viewed as either utterly corrupt or blatantly incestuous.

In 2016, the government's National Survey on Drug Use decided to ask the people it interviewed about all uses of prescription medicines, not just inappropriate use. The survey found that 119 million Americans age 12 and over took prescription psychotherapeutic drugs (painkillers, tranquilizers, stimulants or sedatives). That's a staggering 45 percent of the population. (In Europe, across the five nations of Denmark, Sweden, Great Britain, Germany and Spain, the figure is 13.6 percent, a figure those countries view as alarming and out of control, because it has doubled over the last 15 years.) Adding in other prescription medications, like diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure, and the percentage jumps to more than 60 percent of Americans take a daily prescribed medication. Add in OTC pain killers like aspirin and the rest, and the number jumps to a whopping 81 percent of Americans who can't go a day without taking a pill.

The reason for this, according to Big Pharma is, of course, <cough, cough> better screening and diagnosis.

The reason for this, according to me and Bernadette is, "Ka-ching, ya blinky chumps!"

Have you seen the commercials that recommend you "talk to your doctor" about this or that new and improved statin medication, even for those without heart disease or high cholesterol, as a "routine preventative" against heart disease? A lot of people did. Between 2000 and 2014 the number of statin prescriptions written increased by 400 percent. It's not because 400 percent more people needed it, it's because statin drugs are insanely profitable.

Hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women used to be all the rage, at least before the patents expired and the generics flooded the market. Now those drugs are not at all profitable, are not advertised, and are prescribed at a rate of less than 20 percent of what they were prescribed in 2000.

Every medication will cause a side effect, either because it causes your body to do something it would not normally do, or because it prevents your body from doing something it would normally do. Granted, sometimes the side effect is preferable to the alternative (death), but oftentimes it's not an either/or situation. My personal opinion is, whenever you see a print or television ad about a prescription medication, don't look at it as solution to a problem or as valuable educational information to take to your doctor, look at it as exactly what it is, a sales pitch to get you to buy a product, that you probably don't even need.
 
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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
Back to our regularly scheduled Trump Card...

In the first 100 days of his presidency, Obama was sued 26 times, Bill Clinton 15, and Jr Bush 7.

Thus far, Donald J Trump has been sued 134 times. No, seriously, 134 times.

You know, the cities suing over a plan to withhold funds from ”sanctuary’’ cities, various and sundry Green Card holders trying to get back into the country after the travel ban, a wine bar near the the Trump hotel in Washington has sued him saying he has an unfair competitive advantage because diplomats and lobbyists are booking functions at his hotel instead of the wine bar.

But my favorite is a woman from Quincy, Mass who filed suit contending that the president’s electoral win and his subsequent actions have caused "loss of enjoyment of life."

quote-at-the-core-of-liberalism-is-the-spoiled-child-miserable-as-all-spoiled-children-are-p-j-o-rourke-257086.jpg
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Cop knocks on your door, says "I want to search your house."
You: "No"
Cop: "What are you hiding? If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind me searching your house."

Democrats to Trump: "If you have nothing to hide, release your tax returns."

Same thing. Exactly.

It would be the same thing exactly, except the analogy breaks down because Trump was a presidential candidate and is now president. Candidates for high office typically and traditionally release their tax returns for public view. Now that we have a president who chooses not to do so, the tradition has become an item of public debate and some lawmakers at different levels are proposing legislation to make tax return disclosure a condition of having one's name listed on the ballot.

Candidates and public office holders are already required to disclose a good deal of their personal financial information. Legally, it is a small step from that to mandated tax return disclosure. Under current law, public officials do not have the same privacy rights private citizens do. Expanding that to include tax returns is not a big legal step.

Politically, it is a different matter. But if the large electoral vote states of New York and/or California pass laws that mandate presidential candidate tax return disclosure, it's a done deal.
 
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ATeam

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Retired Expediter
Trump made a complimentary statement about Australia's health care system; a system that resembles Obamacare. His staff quickly walked that back. In 2000, Trump published a book in which he advocated universal health care. While he is attacking Obamacare now and celebrating the "repeal and replace" win in the House, Universal health care clearly remains in Trump's mind. Keep an eye on that. You may very well see Trump say good things about universal health care again.

As flexible as he has proven to be with his public policy views, it would not surprise me to see Trump become a full-blown universal health care advocate. I'm not saying this is going to happen. But if it did, it would not surprise me.
 
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Turtle

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It would be the same thing exactly, except the analogy breaks down because Trump was a presidential candidate and is now president. Candidates for high office typically and traditionally release their tax returns for public view. Now that we have a president who chooses not to do so, the tradition has become an item of public debate and some lawmakers at different levels are proposing legislation to make tax return disclosure a condition of having one's name listed on the ballot.
You seem to be advocating for the "because I want it really, really badly, I should therefore have it," argument. It doesn't break down simply because someone was a candidate and is now the president. There is no question that the private lives of candidates and elected officials (and their families) will more or less become public record, one way or the other.

We all well remember how the public salivated over news of stained dresses and misused cigars; signs of Hillary Clinton's excessive coolness cracking under scrutiny; and how much the President lied and dissembled when faced with uncomfortable questions about his private life. His detractors pointed to the fact he lied to Congress as a sign he was unfit for leadership of "the free world", while his supporters maintained that what went on in his private life, outside of his policies and activities in the capacity of President, are irrelevant to whether he's a good President. All in all it was unseemly and creepy in the way the public ate it up.

The general public, and the news media as the public's proxy, certainly behaves as though it has a right to pry into all the nooks and crannies of government officials' private lives. It may be a result, for some people, of a genuine desire to accurately evaluate the character of people who accept positions of responsibility for the security and prosperity of the nation. For others, it may be a result of partisan bickering and looking for any material that can be used to make an ad hominem argument against a particular candidate for office. Maybe it's all really just a result of a prurient desire to learn the sordid details of others' lives, treating them more as objects of entertainment in the spirit of soap operas than as human beings. But in any case, when it comes to the legislation of prying into the nooks and crannies, if it is viewed as the result of partisan bickering, the Supreme Court has always taken a very dim view of it.

Candidates and public office holders are already required to disclose a good deal of their personal financial information. Legally, it is a small step from that to mandated tax return disclosure. Under current law, public officials do not have the same privacy rights private citizens do. Expanding that to include tax returns is not a big legal step.
Legally, it's actually quite a large step from the current Ethics in Government Act, which requires an astounding amount of privacy disclosure, to tacking on the requirement to make public one's tax returns. The Ethics in Government Act has never been challenged in court, and it's on tenuous legal ground as it is. Both majority and dissenting SCOTUS opinions in cases that dance around the Ethics Act strongly indicate that if it were to ever be brought before the court that it would be struck down by a near-unanimous ruling.

In one case that dealt directly with a portion of the Act (Title VI, the Office of Independent Counsel), Morrison v. Olson, it was ruled by the Supreme Court as being constitutional, in a 7-1 ruling. Justice Scalia's lone dissenting opinion was a scathing one, and predicted what would happen over the next few years that would result in Congress letting the Independent Counsel Act expire and rewrite that section giving back the authority of enforcing laws to the Executive branch of government. He correctly predicted that such a usurping of power would be abused in a partisan manner, as it was when the Special Prosecutor indicted Caspar Winebeinberger on charges related to the Iran-Contra affair, and with Kenneth Star and his gazillion dollar investigation of Bill Clinton.

None of that case really had anything to do with the financial disclosure sections of the Act, so the Justices didn't rule on that part. They did, however, have plenty to say about it, though. In the majority opinion, they questioned the constitutionality of the level of the financial disclosure requirement, calling it "excessive levels of disclosure," and a "gross violation of privacy." The opinion also noted (and spot-on predicted) that the Act would repel good people from serving in the government, the Executive branch in particular, because of the excessive levels of disclosure, the difficulty people would have divorcing themselves from their business interest, and in how the act limits income for those in office and favors those with "unearned" wealth over those with "earned" wealth.

To just up and expand the Ethics in Government Act to encompass federal tax return disclosures is a big leap legally, and would almost certainly see it challenged in court, and would almost certainly see the entire Act ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS.

The Ethics on Government Act was passed on the heels of the Nixon resignation, the Saturday Night Massacre, other assorted and sundry national scandals, and Congress voting itself a big, fat raise. They passed the Act as a means to placate an angry populace, and it was bad legislation that even those who voted for it at the time admitted.

Politically, it is a different matter. But if the large electoral vote states of New York and/or California pass laws that mandate presidential candidate tax return disclosure, it's a done deal.
Well, it's a done deal until it gets to the Supreme Court, where the States would have to convince the Court that such a legal mandate does not add any additional requirements to those found in the Constitution for the Office of the President, that any such ballot requirement is in the national interest, and that it is not as result of partisan politics. Historically, state ballot measures that have failed to meet any of those three requirements have been struck down by the Court. Even if the Court were to allow such a ballot measure, they would almost certainly restrict it from applying to any sitting President and Vice President.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
what would be in tax forms anyway? something to be relevent to the position? That he paid taxes? That his accountant was smart enough to use all the tax laws in the applicants favour?...or that they were stupid enough to actually pay taxes when they didn't have to? The personal portion of whomever's tax form is NOT my business...The fact they are claiming Depends is not my concern..paying taxes does not have any bearing on the character of the person in question....a smart crook would be wise not to take on the IRS..see Capone.
the business portion is more or less already publically disclosed and for the most part public record...

P.S. could you or anyone really respect someone for paying taxes when they didn't have to? because like thats so stupid...just saying
 
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OntarioVanMan

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Trump made a complimentary statement about Australia's health care system; a system that resembles Obamacare. His staff quickly walked that back. In 2000, Trump published a book in which he advocated universal health care. While he is attacking Obamacare now and celebrating the "repeal and replace" win in the House, Universal health care clearly remains in Trump's mind. Keep an eye on that. You may very well see Trump say good things about universal health care again.

As flexible as he has proven to be with his public policy views, it would not surprise me to see Trump become a full-blown universal health care advocate. I'm not saying this is going to happen. But if it did, it would not surprise me.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with universal healthcare is done correctly...to let each state manage the program and run it within it finacial means..as Canada does.....the provinces manage the program NOT the Feds...the FEDs distribute what they call equalization payments from the rich states and more populated to the remote, less populated poorer states...so EVERY citizen no matter of geography has access basic healthcare...
 

Turtle

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what would be in tax forms anyway? something to be relevent to theposition?
The sources of all of his income would be listed. That, they say, will show if any of his income derived from foreign sources which could show a conflict of interest.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
what would be in tax forms anyway? something to be relevent to theposition?/QUOTE]The sources of all of his income would be listed. That, they say, will show if any of his income derived from foreign sources which could show a conflict of interest.
He is an International Business person....If there would be conflicts that wouldn't be surprising...as the the Chairman of GE ...Warren Buffett, Bill Gates...would all have conflicts to some degree IF one dug deep enough....but nothing that could not be divested of before the run for office...
 

Turtle

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Retired Expediter
He is an International Business person....If there would be conflicts that wouldn't be surprising...
Yep, everybody knows that. And he got elected anyway.

What the Trump-haters are desperately after is some kind of financial ties to Russia, ideally a revenue line item in between the Trump Istanbul Hotel, Turkey and Trump World Golf Club Dubai, UAE that shows a gazillion dollar payment from SVR, Putin, Russian Federation, for "Election hacking services rendered."
 
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coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Trump made a complimentary statement about Australia's health care system; a system that resembles Obamacare. His staff quickly walked that back. In 2000, Trump published a book in which he advocated universal health care. While he is attacking Obamacare now and celebrating the "repeal and replace" win in the House, Universal health care clearly remains in Trump's mind. Keep an eye on that. You may very well see Trump say good things about universal health care again.

As flexible as he has proven to be with his public policy views, it would not surprise me to see Trump become a full-blown universal health care advocate. I'm not saying this is going to happen. But if it did, it would not surprise me.

Big business (except health insurance companies) are going to be for a national health plan. As a business owner which would you rather do, employ more hr people to keep up with the all the insurance bs or deduct a percentage of your employees pay and send to the government?






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xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Big business (except health insurance companies) are going to be for a national health plan. As a business owner which would you rather do, employ more hr people to keep up with the all the insurance bs or deduct a percentage of your employees pay and send to the government?






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When has government ever made anything simple for businesses?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Couple things. Australia has universal that everyone pays for. Can't do that here. Too many want and get it for free here. Add in free healthcare for illegals, refugees, and free health care to foreign countries cloaked under humanitarian aid, and you cant do Australia.
But Krauthammer is correct, we are wanting it provided as a right and I do think it will evolve to that. My personal opinion as mentioned before will be a two tier system. A expansion of Medicaid so that is e or less the universal part, and the private pay for coverage. One will be bare bones, and the other will actually be Cadillac coverage.
So essentially, a haves not insurance, and a haves insurance.
 
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