Actually it isn't.
Sounds Like Israel Has Had Enough...
- Thread starter Pilgrim
- Start date
Another distortion by you. This story is not unfavorable to him. That would make 3 links favorable and two unfavorable I have posted. False narrative debunked.LOL ... apparently not ... since the dirt continues to fly off of your shovel ...
No desperation on my part. I'm not the one that made the assertion he was replaced so they could get the pro Israel and anti Hamas reporter in there based on zero evidence.
I know the truth hurts, but you'll just have to deal with it ,and limp on down the road.No, actually it's not ...
First off, it wasn't an argument - it was simply a little bit of rhetoric to "tune up" the fanatical supporters of Israel ... who are prone to mindlessly repeating the "human shield" propaganda and other assorted pro-Israel Hasbara™ ...
You know: the jibbering morons - like those writing over at Weasel Zippers ... who write a headline like this:
"UN Shocked To Find Hamas Rockets Found In One Of Their Schools ..."
... when the story/article (from AFP) that the Zipperheads apparently based their article off of, actually says this:
"... Yesterday, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered approximately 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip," the agency said in a statement.
"UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations," it continued. ..."
UNRWA investigates rockets found in Gaza school | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR
See anything in that AFP article @ The Daily Star about these rockets being Hamas' ?
Yeah ... I didn't think so ...
Yet apparently you - as evidenced by your own statement - lapped it up like a starving mutt at a full food bowl:
What's to say they weren't PFLP rockets ?
Or the DFLP's ?
Or the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade's ?
Or one of the other dozen or more Palestinian armed resistance groups that exist ?
The importance really isn't whether the rockets were Hamas' or not ... it's that the journalism is honest and accurate, reports the facts - and avoids being misleading and perverting the truth in service of an ideological agenda.
Unfortunately that is as much a conservative problem as it is a liberal one ...
Also unfortunately some folks are so fanatically ideological that they really don't care about accuracy and truth. And a lot of them don't even know it.
Well ... I certainly didn't say that you had ...
Rather irrelevant.
By all means: feel free to elaborate on that:
How the presence of something endangers lives that apparently aren't there ...
Oh - so this hasn't happened before ...
Good to know ... thanks for clearing that up ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8OBJWcGh8cc
Hmmm, lookie here:
Hamas Caught Funnelling Rockets into Mosques, Deceptive Tactics Exposed
Hamas Caught Funnelling Rockets into Mosques, Deceptive Tactics Exposed
Muslim fighters using "holy places" to hide weapons and fire from? What's new there?
When my son, and nephew, were in Iraq they were both shelled, daily, from inside mosque compounds. Under our "rules of engagement" they were NOT allowed to return fire, because they would be firing on a "holy place".
I am not arguing whether we should, or should not, have been there in the first place. IF we are going to commit troops, we should do so 100%. Either fight, and end it, forgetting silly rules, or don't go in at all. At LOT of lives were lost due to "rules of engagement".
When my son, and nephew, were in Iraq they were both shelled, daily, from inside mosque compounds. Under our "rules of engagement" they were NOT allowed to return fire, because they would be firing on a "holy place".
I am not arguing whether we should, or should not, have been there in the first place. IF we are going to commit troops, we should do so 100%. Either fight, and end it, forgetting silly rules, or don't go in at all. At LOT of lives were lost due to "rules of engagement".
The Hamas Interior Ministry has a total disregard for their civilians.
Hamas Orders Civilians to Die in Israeli Airstrikes | Washington Free Beacon
Hamas Orders Civilians to Die in Israeli Airstrikes | Washington Free Beacon
I'm not, either. I laid out my reasons for my conclusions, and your prefer to pretend those reasons didn't exist, or that I didn't state them. But that's OK, I understand, I really do, when facts do not align with what you want them to be. It's incredibly inconvenient.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Apparently you're unfamiliar with the idiomatic expression "When you're in hole, put down the shovel and stop digging ..."
Try not to be quite so ... literal ...
Favorability or lack thereof has absolutely nothing to what I was referring to in the particular post you quoted ...
The reference to "dirt" above referred to what you are doing (digging deeper in a hole) ... not the particular content of what you're posting.
That this (digging deeper in a hole) is the case is clearly evident by the fact that can't leave it alone and continue to post ... after you said you were done.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Congrats ... on avoiding addressing the points I just raised ... lol ...
When asked "Do you think..." it's a request for his OPINION. From there on it's not bland reporting of the facts - it's his interpretation of what the existing situation is. Your interpretation of his statement is different from mine and others may have a different take on it as well, but in any case the Palestinians come out with the short end of the stick as described in the Krauthammer article. Over the course of time the Palestinians have had at least three opportunities for independent statehood and have rejected them all. At some point these people need to understand they need to elect responsible leadership that will work in their best interest instead of radical muslim terrorist groups whose goal is to eliminate Israel from the map. What needs to happen is for Israel to unleash the dogs of war to defeat and dismantle the Hamas and PLO terrorists (and their Iranian backers if necessary) that are attacking them and force their unconditional surrender - just like what the Allied Forces did to the Axis Powers in WW2. At that point maybe the UN along with some of the neighboring Arabic states can come in and create a Palestinian state that can co-exist with Israel.
I really don't know exactly what your problem is, but it requires some sort of intervention. I have every right to post as you do. I didn't say I was DONE posting in this thread. The DONE comment was in reference to a comment from another member that I'm just getting started (posting NEGATIVE links about the reporter) I said I may very well be finished (In posting anything more critical of him.) The next post about him wasn't critical, it was only an update that he was being reinstated. There isn't anything more to say on this reporter. He has been reinstated, everyone has given their views, and the story is over.
I know it's hard for some in their fervor to restrain themselves from getting in some type of dig, regardless of how baseless, inaccurate, and ignoramus it is. Again, it's something I would get checked out. Good luck.
You may find this hard to believe, but, yeah, I know that. In fact, I'm the one who had to tell you that. But if you listen to what he actually says, rather than what you want to hear, you'll hear it's not even his opinion, it's the opinion of the people in that part of the world.
Except his interpretation is nothing more than a bland statement of the Five Ws, and what the people in that part of the world think should happen. Everything he stated is factual and verifiable.
Why interpret it at all? Why the need to interpret it to mean something other than what he said? It's not like the man has a history of reporting in riddles, parables and allegories full of some hidden other meaning - he reports very matter-of-factly, it's what he's known and most respected for. Why not just take his words as he gives them, to mean exactly what he says, nothing more, nothing less?
As described in the article, yes, that's true, but the problem is the article is an absolute joke full of misrepresentations and outright falsehoods. I almost responded to that when you posted it, but I honestly done have the energy to go through and refute each and every ridiculous claim make by Krauthammer, because the people who believe what he said, and clearly you're one of them, tend to not let things like facts get in the way, and I simply don't want to try and engage in an intellectual argument with someone who argues from a politically emotional point of view who's emotion and beliefs refuse to allow them to see anything objectively. It would be like trying to have a conversation with those two little Scottie dog magnets.
I'm tempted to throw some facts at you, but I know it won't make any difference. I'll just say that you probably shouldn't totally and completely dismiss the reality that every time the Palestinians have rejected independent statehood it was because Israel changed the conditions of statehood at the last minute, which rendered everything agreed upon to be a waste of time. The Palestinians desperately want a two state solution, almost as bad as Israel does not. Here's a little nugget to chew on regarding Krauthammer - Israel and Egypt have total control over the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza by land, sea and air. But there's no blockade.
If things go as you hope, "at that point" there won't be anyone left to want a Palestinian state. Certainly not any Palestinians.
Why would any peace loving person want to live in Israel? From 1948, it has been an unworkable situation. Even if a two-state solution could magically happen, the parties involved still want each other dead. Israel can't go big with offense, so nearly continuous skirmishes seem certain. Life in a bomb shelter is no way to live. Must that tiny strip of land be more important than the whole of Africa?
Apparently there are those besides myself who disagree, including some higher-ups at NBC who seemed to think it was a pro-Hamas rant.
So we're to believe that your experience with and knowledge of middle eastern affairs eclipses that of Charles Krauthammer?? He's known for many things such as winning the Pulitzer Prize for distinguished commentary, but not for publishing "misrepresentations and outright falsehoods". Maybe there are a few other members of the forum that would like to see these refutations of "each and every ridiculous claim" in Krauthammer's column. Get yourself some Red Bull or 5 Hour Energy.
If you've got facts to throw, then have at it. It might make a difference - it just depends on whether they're actual facts or your facts. Your "little nugget" misrepresents what Krauthammer says; in the article Krauthammer states there IS no occupation; he also says there WAS no blockade. That was in the beginning, until Hamas started bringing in arms and munitions for their terrorist activities. Who can blame Israel and Egypt for putting a stop to that?
Not there's a ridiculous claim if ever there was one, probably straight out of the PLO propaganda book. The Palestinian people might want a two state solution, but for some reason they keep putting people in leadership positions who do not.
"Why do the Palestinians refuse a negotiated peace? Because a negotiated peace means the end of the conflict, or at least promising to end the conflict and accept Israel. But the Palestinian leadership wants a state so that they can continue the conflict from a stronger position. In particular, they want a state and they want to keep pressing in every way for the "right of return" to Israel.
Israel would not agree to that in negotiations, which is why Palestinians want a state without negotiations, and without having to make any compromises.
In accord with this, at least three times the Palestinians have refused statehood when it was offered to them, most recently just a few years ago...
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=83&x_article=2116
I'm not sure why others agreeing with you should matter. Oh, wait, I forgot, you're all about the dynamics of group agreement, where if a lot of people agree on something, then there must be something to it - they can't all be wrong, right?
No, you shouldn't. Don't know where you'd get such a notion, either. Oh, wait, you probably just interpreted what I said to mean something I didn't say.
I read him a lot and enjoy his writings, but don't think for a minute that he's unbiased. Yes, he is known for many things, not the least of which is very pro-Zionist anti-Palestinian stance on that region. Everything he writes with respect to the Middle East is from that position.
Oh, you say that, but historically it hasn't mattered with you. You make an assertion, I refute it with facts, and you either dismiss or ignore them and plow right along, weeks or months later making the same assertion. You're more interested in the convenient facts, and not so much in the inconvenient ones. So you say it might make a difference, but with you it so rarely does.
The blockade has been there in one form or another for many years. When Israel and Egypt have (and has had) total control over anything and everything that moves in and out of Gaza, to not call that a blockade is a falsehood. By definition a blockade is the surrounding of, closing off, or isolation of a place in order to prevent or control entry or exit. That's exactly what Israel and Egypt have been and are doing.
Make no mistake, I'm not defending the Palestinians at all. I simply look for the truth, and know that Israel is not pure as the driven sand in all this. The Palestinians have certainly rejected proposals, but they have accepted proposals in which Israel has changed the conditions at the last minute. They did that very thing a few months ago.
A two state solution will never happen over there. Both parties have been playing like they want it, but neither does. The Israeli settlements in the West Bank, and the Palestinians demands, make that abundantly clear. They both lay claim to the land, when the reality is neither of them can claim it to the exclusion of the other. Both religions claim historical ownership, but the archeological evidence, along with the overwhelming majority of Biblical scholars, says they've both been there since the earliest of recorded history. Heck the Exodus never even happened. Who's right and who's wrong depends solely on which name you like on the front of the jersey. I'm for drawing a line across the middle and saying, "You guys get this half, and you guys get that half. Now shut up."
Alex Safian. That's rich. No, he's not biased at all, and he would never, ever write anything that would falsely represent Israel as the victim or made it look like Israel is the happy go luck guy just trying to get along and make peace.
MLTransCorp
Rookie Expediter
Amen. Very well stated. But the main problem is education. Most can't read or write, any language, they can only speak, they have lived in nothing but civil war, and are nothing more than pawns in the chess game. To their leaders, they are not human shields, they are civil war soldiers, to be used to shield themselves, and I do not consider them to be human, for a human would not have so little value of another human, to these "leaders" they are to be sacrificed for the "holy" cause. But you don't see them stopping themselves to the rockets they fire. If it were truly a "holy" cause, they should be willing to strap themselves to those rockets so they know they die in the most "holy" way. They are cowards, and do not deserve to be called humans, so those they sacrifice should not be called human sheilds, because they don't shield humans.
Sent from my SCH-I545
Sent from my SCH-I545
MLTransCorp
Rookie Expediter
There is ignorance, and unfortunately stupidity.
Ignorance is cured by education.
Stupidity is only cured by death.
Sent from my SCH-I545
Ignorance is cured by education.
Stupidity is only cured by death.
Sent from my SCH-I545
I went back and read the Krauthammer article. It was very insightful. Agree the two state solution will never work. The Palestinians won't accept it unless it includes the 'right to return' . Israel won't accept those terms and agree to a bad deal that would greatly reduce their security and endanger their citizenry.
I like the 'one state solution' presented by Caroline Glick .
From article:
'Glick's option is a one-state plan. It is one in which the so-called Green Line, the 1949 Armistice Line, is dissolved, and the laws of Israel extend throughout Judea and Samaria. Arabs living in those areas would immediately become permanent residents of Israel, with the option of applying for Israeli citizenship. They would have the right to live wherever they choose, work wherever they choose, and they would have the right to elect their local governments.
The Israeli military government currently operating in the territories would be dissolved, as would the Palestinian Authority and its security forces.
Eligibility for citizenship would be decided by a government ministry, with certain eligibility standards such as membership in terrorist groups or history of incitement as disqualifiers. But even those for whom citizenship will not be extended can remain as permanent residents.'
This idea will have plenty of resistance ,but it looks like the best option for everyone,and have the best opportunity to work. Palestinians and Jews can have their state. Gaza will be free in every way, and Hamas will no longer have a cause and cease from being terrorists. I know it sux for them , but they'll just have to find real jobs .
The Jewish Press » » Glick Wrote the Alternative: Jewish, Democratic, One-State Israel
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=epImuqWBGGg
I like the 'one state solution' presented by Caroline Glick .
From article:
'Glick's option is a one-state plan. It is one in which the so-called Green Line, the 1949 Armistice Line, is dissolved, and the laws of Israel extend throughout Judea and Samaria. Arabs living in those areas would immediately become permanent residents of Israel, with the option of applying for Israeli citizenship. They would have the right to live wherever they choose, work wherever they choose, and they would have the right to elect their local governments.
The Israeli military government currently operating in the territories would be dissolved, as would the Palestinian Authority and its security forces.
Eligibility for citizenship would be decided by a government ministry, with certain eligibility standards such as membership in terrorist groups or history of incitement as disqualifiers. But even those for whom citizenship will not be extended can remain as permanent residents.'
This idea will have plenty of resistance ,but it looks like the best option for everyone,and have the best opportunity to work. Palestinians and Jews can have their state. Gaza will be free in every way, and Hamas will no longer have a cause and cease from being terrorists. I know it sux for them , but they'll just have to find real jobs .
The Jewish Press » » Glick Wrote the Alternative: Jewish, Democratic, One-State Israel
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=epImuqWBGGg
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
I'll say ...
Right now it's mostly trying to figure how to properly size a hydraulic motor ... so I can convert a rear-mount PTO snowblower to a front-end loader mounted hydraulically-driven snowblower.
I have an Eaton "L2" series pump - actually a model 25503 - which has a 2.05 cu. in. displacement, is rated for 3600 psi continuous and a speed of 2750 rpm, with an output of 22 GPM @ 3000 psi @ 2750 rpm.
That's good - because the mid-PTO of my tractor is rated at 2550 rpm at PTO rpm.
The question is: What should the displacement of (driven) hydraulic motor be, given the flow rate of the pump and the rpm I can run it at, to achieve a driven speed of 540 rpm on the snowblower ...
Taking into account frictional/efficiency losses of course.
If you have any insight into this, please drop me a PM.