Sounds Like Israel Has Had Enough...

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
...of the random rocket attacks coming from Hamas terrorists who hide behind civilian Palestinian women and children in Gaza while shooting at Israeli civilians. Netanyahu seems determined not to let them off the hook this time and give them an opportunity during the false pretense of cease-fire to regroup and re-arm. Hopefully Israel will keep up the pressure on Hamas, along with the blockade of supplies for their terrorist activities. The destruction and defeat of these barbarians - even without the support of the Obama administration - would be a step forward for western civilization.

Gaza conflict: Thousands of Palestinians flee as calls for ceasefire ignored - News - MSN CA

As for relying on Hamas’s rocket fire and the diplomatic initiatives of the Palestinian Authority to pressure Israel into accepting Hamas’s terms, Hamas is so far striking out. While Israeli civilians have been largely protected by Israel’s Iron Dome defense system, Hamas’s indiscriminate rocket campaign is backfiring – literally. Aside from Palestinian civilian casualties caused by Hamas’s deliberate use of its own civilians as human shields, one of Hamas’s rockets managed to knock out the primary electric lines in Israel that deliver electricity into parts of southern Gaza. Prime Minister Netanyahu is in no hurry to direct Israel’s electricity company to risk the lives of its workmen by going out to fix what Hamas destroyed. As a result, about 70,000 people have been without power in Gaza...

Israel tried in good faith to bring an end to the cycle of violence by accepting Egypt’s proposal for an immediate ceasefire. Even UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon acknowledged in a statement “Israel’s readiness to accept the ceasefire proposal.” Hamas, by contrast, relentlessly continued its dance with death. In the same statement, the Secretary General said that he “calls on Hamas to cooperate with the Egyptian initiative.”
It is up to Hamas and its cohorts to stop the rocket attacks immediately and accept the terms of the ceasefire proposal put forth by Egypt. Only then will the suffering that the Palestinian people are now being forced to endure because of the jihadists’ reckless actions have any chance of lessening.

Ceasefire Goes Up In Flames | FrontPage Magazine


Since the Obama administration seems to be content to lead from behind, maybe with help from Egypt and a healthy dose of determination to survive the Israelis can put an end to the Hamas and PLO threat once and for all.

 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Nothing will ever change unless they put an end to Hamas.
From article:
This time around, the Israel Defense Forces say they are ready to initiate a ground offensive in Gaza to finish the job they started in November 2012. That means finding and destroying the underground bunkers and tunnels where the terrorists and the rockets are located. Israel knows that ground missions are notoriously dangerous with the potential for high numbers of casualties on both sides escalating exponentially. But until the world teaches Hamas it has lost the war, instead of being rescued by its friends at the UN and in the media, Israel knows it will have to go it alone.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/16/Hamas-Israel-Cease-Fire-Its-Deja-vu-All-Over-Again
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
There would be a certain degree of hilarity (as well as a sort of pathetic delusion ...) involved with someone describing others as "barbarians", if that individual had gone to a foreign land and participated in an internal civil war of another nation, against some portion of the native population ... particularly given that there was considerable civilian carnage as a consequence of the actions of the armed forces he was a part of ...

A nation which, by the way, that had not attacked his ...

I guess the cognitive dissonance in that case might be just so overwhelming that it would prevent any real honest self-examination ...

But then I guess the "ideal soldier" would be one that didn't really think much ... but only obeyed ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Of course, there's always the matter of the sequence of events:

How an army of defense became an army of vengeance

I will never forget the evening my friends and I were sent to kill Palestinian police officers in a revenge attack. We went from soldiers sent to defend our families to murderers of innocent people.

By O.K.

A month has passed since we were informed of the kidnapping of Eyal Yifrah, Gilad Shaar and Naftali Fraenkel. Ever since, there has been unrest in the region. Along with their families, we all hoped for good news, and mourned with them when the teens’ bodies were found. However, over the past few weeks our computer screens and our streets have been filled not only with sorrow, but also with cries for revenge. Israeli citizens and leaders alike have openly called for avenging the deaths of the three boys.


“No more playing by the rules,” said MK Ayelet Shaked. The Secretary General of World Bnei Akiva youth movement called for bloody vengeance. These calls of action, among many others, led Israeli citizens to take to the streets and attack Palestinians indiscriminately. This air of revenge claimed the life of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, the Palestinian youth from Shuafat who was murdered by Jewish Israelis.

The cycle of violence didn’t end with the youth. The Israeli leadership responded to the demands for revenge by mobilizing the Israeli military as an army of vengeance, and Hamas responded in kind. The military operation that commenced in the West Bank as a result of the kidnapping included collective punishment of thousands of Palestinian civilians. Hamas returned to shooting rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilians in Israel, and the Israeli army launched a military operation against the Gaza Strip. Over 200 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, and one Israeli citizen have been killed since the upsurge in violence. The Israeli army has carried out approximately 1,825 air strikes in the Gaza, and Palestinian militants have fired more than 900 rockets into Israeli territory. At this point, there is no end in sight to the cycle of reciprocal violence that continues due to the logic of revenge.

Read +972′s coverage of the latest round of violence in Gaza and Israel


Following the vengeful civilian actions, a debate emerged among the Israeli public between supporters and opponents of revenge; yet the majority of the Israeli public has remained indifferent to the mobilization of Israeli combat soldiers in operations of revenge. I know this indifference well, as I myself was sent as a military officer to carry out such a mission, and hardly anyone thought twice about it.


I want to tell you about one day in 2002 when my soldiers and I were sent to seek revenge for the deaths of six soldiers. I served in the Israeli army as a combat soldier and an officer in an elite unit during the Second Intifada. In February 2002 I was with my unit near Nablus when we were informed that Palestinian militants had killed six military engineers at an army checkpoint at the Ein Arik junction and had managed to escape.


The next day we gathered for a briefing prior to the operation. Our commanders informed us about the events at Ein Arik and explained that our unit would be sent to checkpoints in the area manned by Palestinian police officers with the objective of killing any officer we found. They didn’t say, “You’re going to seek revenge,” but there was no need to state it explicitly. We knew we were going out to avenge the deaths of the soldiers and we spoke about it explicitly among ourselves.


Until that day, we were expressly forbidden from opening fire on Palestinian police officers. We also knew that the army had a special agreement with the Palestinian security forces, whereby we were to avoid harming them. However, that evening none of this was relevant anymore. We did not know who we were sent to kill – neither their names nor what they had done in their past – yet we knew for certain that they had nothing to do with the murder of the soldiers at the Ein Arik checkpoint. We left behind a few human bodies that had posed no threat to us at all. I am sure that those police officers had not expected anything; they likely had no idea why they were attacked.

That same night, as part of the same “revenge operation,” two similar attacks took place near two other posts guarded by Palestinian police officers in the West Bank and Gaza. All in all, 15 Palestinian police officers were killed that night. The morning news headlines about the operation read: “IDF Objective: Palestinian Police.” The IDF responded regarding the motives for revenge by stating, “The Palestinian police failed to prevent the entry of terrorists into Israel.” For many readers this response was enough, and many others probably didn’t care. But I knew what we did. We avenged the deaths of six Israeli soldiers with the deaths of 15 Palestinian police officers. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

I will never forget that evening, the evening when my friends and I were transformed from soldiers of an army of defense to soldiers of an army of vengeance. We changed from soldiers sent to defend our families into murderers of innocent people.


A few years after that night, I broke my silence because I believed that the Israeli public needed to know what takes place, in its name, on a daily in the occupied Palestinian territories. I am breaking my silence again today because I believe that the Israeli public and its leadership need to know what they are asking for when they call for revenge. They need to know that when they seek revenge they are actually asking us to turn today’s soldiers – our friends, siblings, and children – into murderers. It is the same bloody transition my friends and I underwent back in 2002.


With respect to the victims of vengeance on both sides, and for the sake of the youths sent to be turned into murderers, the time has come to stop this cycle of revenge.


*O.K. served as an officer in the paratroopers reconnaissance unit during the Second Intifada and is a member of Breaking the Silence.
How an army of defense became an army of vengeance

Barbarian: It's all in the eyes/mind of the beholder ...

Shoot ... some barbarians even think that others are the barbarians ...
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The ones that were responsible have been arrested. That is how a democracy works. Has anyone been brought to justice for the killing of the three teens? No.
It really is irrelevant to have a score card with the amount of rockets and casualties if it is used as an argument as to who is the guilty party. Israel is responding to unprovoked attacks. As usual they are responding from a constant barrage of attacks. So in defending themselves they hit harder back and the usual suspects whine that it isn't fair. And as often the case,the amount of civilian casualties is due mainly to Hamas using them as human shields.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The ones that were responsible have been arrested. That is how a democracy works. Has anyone been brought to justice for the killing of the three teens? No.
It really is irrelevant to have a score card with the amount of rockets and casualties if it is used as an argument as to who is the guilty party. Israel is responding to unprovoked attacks. As usual they are responding from a constant barrage of attacks. So in defending themselves they hit harder back and the usual suspects whine that it isn't fair. And as often the case,the amount of civilian casualties is due mainly to Hamas using them as human shields.
So much ignorance and misinformation there it's really hard to know where to begin ...

The human rights community's consensus: Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza

Alex Kane on July 17, 2014

gaza_destroyed_home.jpg.size_.xxlarge.promo_.jpg
A Palestinian family leaves its house in Gaza City after it was damaged in an Israeli airstrike. (Photo: MOHAMMED ABED / AFP/GETTY IMAGES)​

When the Israeli military wages assaults on Gaza, their spokesmen, former officials and sympathetic journalists blanket the airwaves to justify their military policies as targeted and precise. But during this attack on Gaza–and previous assaults–a consensus among human rights groups has emerged: Israel is committing war crimes in strikes that are wiping out civilians.

Since the start of Israel's "Operation Protective Edge," Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and United Nations officials–the heavyweights when it comes to interpreting international law–have all issued reports and statements slamming Israel for violations of international law. Those organizations have also said Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups firing rockets are committing war crimes since their volleys are indiscriminately aimed at Israeli civilians.

Israeli spokespeople have pointed to a number of military policies they say are aligned with international law to deflect criticism from the growing civilian death toll in Gaza, which is at 164, according to the UN. One policy frequently cited is the so-called "knock on the roof," when Israel launches a less-lethal projectile to warn the inhabitants of a home in Gaza that they are about to be attacked with munitions. Another policy Israel says is justified is attacks on the homes of Palestinian militants, with Israeli spokespeople claiming that homes store armaments in them.

BsnpBbaCcAAuBRK-580x580.jpg
An Israeli army Twitter post​

And Israel has also pounded home the message that civilian deaths are occurring because Hamas uses Palestinians as "human shields." No evidence has been presented that Hamas does so.

"We’re doing everything to keep civilians out of harm's way," Ron Dermer, Israel's ambassador to the U.S., said today during a Twitter Q and A on the conflict. "No country in history has more rigorously upheld international law when its homeland under attack."

But human rights organizations have dismissed many of Israel's claims. In response to Israel's "roof knocking" and warning policies, Amnesty International's Philip Luther, the Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme, said that "There is no way that firing a missile at a civilian home can constitute an effective 'warning'. Amnesty International has documented cases of civilians killed or injured by such missiles in previous Israeli military operations on the Gaza Strip." In addition, some accounts from Palestinians in Gaza indicate that families "warned" of an airstrike were not given enough time to evacuate–or that there was no warning at all.

"Civilian structures such as residential homes become lawful targets only when they are being used for military purposes," the report states. "Attacks targeting civilians or civilian property are unlawful, as are attacks that do not or cannot discriminate between civilians and combatants." Israel has claimed that these attacks on civilian homes occur because they are used as "command and control" centers by Hamas and other groups–but Human Rights Watch dismissed those claims, saying there was no evidence to justify them.

Sarah Leah Whitson, Human Rights Watch’s Middle East director, said in a statement that "the presence of a single, low-level fighter would hardly justify the appalling obliteration of an entire family. Israel would never accept an argument that any Israeli home of an Israel Defense Force member would be a valid military target." Whitson echoed what UN human rights chief Navi Pillay said when the assault on Gaza began.

"We have received deeply disturbing reports that many of the civilian casualties, including of children, occurred as a result of strikes on homes. Such reports raise serious doubt about whether the Israeli strikes have been in accordance with international humanitarian law and international human rights law," said Pillay.

Tellingly, there has only been one instance of the Israeli military claiming that a strike was on a home that stored weapons, according to Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. The group also documented the military’s changing explanations of strikes on homes.

On July 8th, the Israeli army said that they bombed the homes of Hamas activists "involved in terrorist activity"–a clear violation of international law, since mere involvement in "terrorism" in the past does not allow an army to legally bomb their house. The next day, the army changed the wording of statements concerning the bombing of houses, stating, with no evidence, that houses they hit "functioned as command and control infrastructure for the organization."
The human rights community's consensus: Israel is committing war crimes
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
When have any national committee's been on Israel's side. Most the world would rather they be gone

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
When have any notional committee's been on Israel's side.
If you were really informed on the matter (rather than just thinking that you are) you would be able to provide an answer to that question ... rather than being forced to just pose it as a rhetorical device ...

The article that I provided previous to your post in fact references condemnation by such organizations of Israel's opposition for their actions as well.

Most the world would rather they be gone
More empty rhetoric ...
 
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hossman2011

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I will tell ya what... The hamas cowards hide amongst the civilians that has been verified by multiple agencies and countries, not by a humanitarian organization that has a problem with any type of violence... Israel has dropped leaflets and made phone calls letting civilians attacks were coming.. Seems MORE than reasonable to me... If I lived in an area that had terrorists embedding themselves around my family... I m not sticking around and waiting for them to get their *** blown up.... Can't afford to leave? It costs next to nothing to freaking walk!!! You stick around? The results are because you chose to be involved...
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Their just a peaceful loving group, poor little guys are misunderstood.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
According to that article, they are both guilty.
Since the start of Israel's "Operation Protective Edge," Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and United Nations officials–the heavyweights when it comes to interpreting international law–have all issued reports and statements slamming Israel for violations of international law. Those organizations have also said Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups firing rockets are committing war crimes since their volleys are indiscriminately aimed at Israeli civilians.

Looks like Israel is now starting its ground invasion. Had to know that was coming.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I stopped on my post to answer the phone and then came back. I was dragging my feet.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From article:
Heading toward the exit, we were overwhelmed by the jet-like sound of two rockets being launched from somewhere near the school. Hamas, or some or militant group, clearly is hoping the Israelis won’t strike at the launchers, which are kept underground until the moment of firing, because they’re close to the school and so many refugees.

As the Hamas-made missiles screamed off into the sky, leaving a white vapour trail, the kids all cheered. One older boy of maybe 12, shouted in Arabic “They’re R160s,” named for the late Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi who was assassinated by Israel in 2004. These are the big, long-range rockets usually reserved for Tel Aviv, Jerusalem or the airport in between.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/w...fugee-shelter/article19650579/?service=mobile
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They were probably planted in there to make Hamas look bad.
Article:
(AFP) – The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees said Thursday it was investigating after finding 20 rockets hidden in one of its vacant schools in the Gaza Strip.

It condemned the incident as a “flagrant violation” of international law and said the rockets had been removed and the “relative parties” informed.

“Yesterday, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered approximately 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip,” the agency said in a statement.

“UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations,” it continued.

“This is a flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law.”

It said the incident was the first of its kind, warning that it “endangered civilians including staff and put at risk UNRWA’s vital mission.”

The statement said UNRWA “informed the relevant parties and successfully took all necessary measures for the removal of the objects.”
http://weaselzippers.us/193488-hamas-rockets-found-in-un-school/
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Their just a peaceful loving group, poor little guys are misunderstood.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123
Probably the same poor little guys that were caught on video celebrating in the streets after the 9/11 attacks. The cold hard fact is that during war there will be civilian casualties, and a lot of these civilians are not only victims of the actions of the same Hamas terrorist organization they elected to govern them, but also supporters and collaborators of those who launch rockets from their neighborhoods, schools and mosques. Fortunately, Netanyahu - unlike Obama - understands the virtue of the ruthlessness necessary to defeat those whose goal is to eliminate his nation and his people from the face of the earth. Churchill - unlike his predecessor - recognized this same fact when faced with the Nazi threat against England.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
NBC pulls reporter out of Gaza for reporting in an even handed and unbiased manner, instead of reporting in pro-Isreal fashion. Film at eleven.

That ought to tell you something.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It might tell us that Hamas in Gaza is getting blown all to h*ll, with civilian casualties all around available for the usual photographs and videos. BTW, when did the mainstream media develop a bias towards Israel?
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Maybe they consider honest biased.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123
 
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skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Lets send some gang members from Detroit and Chicago to Gaza.They love to shoot folks, but ugh, which side do we put them on...................? Probably Hamas will shoot them if they go there, and Israels tanks would run over the gang memembers because their pants would fall down..........
 
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