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Since I'm not allowed to post on the The trump card thread!

Discussion in 'The Soapbox' started by Windsor, May 14, 2016.

  1. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    You already have opened that can of worms - see your quote that follows. Also, check out Hillary's positions on gun control.
    Clinton unveils plan for tighter gun control including executive action, expanded background checks | Fox News
    I'm very familiar with the 2d amendment in its entirety, and it isn't relevant to the above nonsensical statement.

    I would also suggest you learn how to use the Quote feature on this website. Turtle is an excellent instructor.
     
  2. Moot
    Confused

    Moot Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    Ah but he did! A real, reality TV show that he hosted. Death Valley Days was a retelling of actual events that occurred during the 1800's in and around Death Valley.
     
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    • Moot
      Confused

      Moot Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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      True!
       
    • Moot
      Confused

      Moot Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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      Don't! I made that mistake voting for another wrestler once and he won that election.
       
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    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      Yes there are. Not so much for visitors, though.
      No one is asking for the perfect answer, just a reasonable one will do. And you certainly don't need to limit yourself to the three options I gave above, as if you can think of more options than that, it would be awesome.
      No one that I know of is suggesting that we deport Muslims because they're Muslims, especially if they're US citizens. That would be unconstitutional. But the Constitution doesn't infer upon or guarantee anyone the right to emmigrate to here. For that matter, there's nothing in the Constitution that guarantees an alien the right to visit here.

      The Constitution itself, from which all federal powers derive, does not delegate to the federal government power over immigration, only over naturalization. Meaning, the federal government has the power to decide who is and is not, and who can be and cannot be, a US citizen. Immigration is handled through laws enacted by Congress. And even at that, Congress does not have any explicit power over immigration, per se. Such a power has been inferred from its power over naturalization, but naturalization (the power to determine who shall be citizens) is different from the power over immigration of non-citizens.

      We can infer such a power from two different clauses of Article I of the Constitution, however.

      The first is Article I, Section 8, is the section that tasks Congress the authority over naturalization by stating, "The Congress shall have power... To establish a uniform rule of naturalization." So Congress is who decides the rules for becoming a naturalized citizen. Since immigration is practically a requirement of being naturalized, we can also infer that Congress can make immigration laws, despite them not having been explicitly granted that power by the Constitution.

      The second clause is the non-importation clause in Article I, Section 9, which provides: “The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight.” (that's 1808). Meaning, any immigrants the states had let in prior to 1808, and were agreeable to allowing those immigrants to remain, Congress couldn't just up and deport them. Until 1808, the States had total control over immigration insofar as who was allowed to emigrate to their State. The negative inference from this clause is that Congress would eventually (after 1808) have a power to prohibit immigration (but the clause does not similarly imply that Congress would also have the power to force states to accept immigration, which is why several of the States got all bent out of shape and refused to accept refugees from Syria).

      While the federal government (Congress) is explicitly delegated the power of naturalization by the Constitution, the power of immigration is an inferred power, not an explicit power. Thus, when the government's motivation for enacting immigration laws is to further genuine compelling foreign policy goals, or, as it says right there at the very top of the Constitution, "in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity," the laws will be upheld.

      On the flip side of that, when the government's motivation is nativism or fear or hatred or favoritism, strict scrutiny will usually operate to defeat those laws. It may take a while, depending on the reasons for enacting the law in the first place. The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was the first significant legislation that set the most serious restrictions on a specific ethnic group. The Act outright prohibited the immigration of Chinese laborers, and was intended to last 10 years, but was renewed in 1892, and made permanent in 1902. When it was extended in 1902, it required each Chinese resident to register and obtain a certificate of residence. Without a certificate, they faced deportation. It wasn't repealed until 1943 (in no small part because two years earlier China became an official allied nation during WW II). Ethnic Chinese still couldn't own property or business until 1967.

      While on the face of it the Chinese Exclusion Act may seem like an act out of fear or hatred or favoritism, and the strict scrutiny should apply to repeal that law, but the reality is that domestic Tranquility, common defence, general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty outweighed the strict scrutiny of discrimination. The Supreme Order of Caucasians was just one of many anti-Chinese groups that regularly engaged the Chinese in violence. There were riots in the streets, murder was rampant from both sides, it was a real mess. The reason for the Act was not a secret, it was straight up because Chinese immigrants "endangered the good order of certain localities" and could eventually spread to most of the country.

      But very few Chinese who were already here were deported. The ban was on visitors and those wanting to emmigrate to here. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah. Trump, Muslims, visitors and immigrants.

      Not really. Not successfully, anyway. The right of the people from infringement to keep and bear arms is enumerated right there in the Constitution, and it is a right that cannot be revoked by legislation, whereas the privilege of Muslims to enter the country can be granted or revoked by Congress as they see fit.

      They believe the banning of guns to be unconstitutional because, like, you know, it is. Banning someone from the country for religious reasons, or any other compelling reason, like insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, is not.

      Well, I used the very imprecise term "bunch" because the analogy didn't really require a lot of specificity beyond that. You translated that to mean "SMALL" whatever small is. The intent in using "bunch" was to mean a lot, a significant number as to take notice of, rather than something small and insignificant, not to be bothered with. But more to the point, I didn't say it was a bunch of redheaded women kicking guys in the nuts, I said they they had posted online that whenever they see YOU specifically, they would be kicking YOU in the nuts. YOU are the target of the entire bunch. No one else. Just YOU.

      The kicked in the nuts analogy is always a little iffy, because every now and then you run into someone who actually enjoys that sort of thing. Or, you run into someone who really, really likes redheads and are willing to risk that the one who is approaching his isn't a part of the "bunch."

      Perhaps a better analogy would be a certain police jurisdiction, let's say the Evansville Police Department, puts out an BOLO for you. They want you bad. They've got every cop on the lookout specifically for you. Sure, the Evansville Police Force is a small number of cops, compared to all cops. So if you are across the river you're good to go. The Henderson police probably aren't looking for you, probably, and even if they're aware of the BOLO they might not really care since it's not their jurisdiction. But can you be sure? If you see one of Henderson's finest, unless you can be sure of his intentions, you're quite likely to avoid him.

      So again, what's the alternative? allow any and all Muslims into the country on a tourist visa as long as they tell us up front they won't hurt anybody?

      If you view it as bickering, then you probably shouldn't. If you view it as voicing your opinion and balancing that with the opinions of others, as a means of learning about different ways of looking at things, then posting your opinion goes a long way in fostering the debate and the exchange of ideas.
       
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    • davekc
      Caffeine Fix

      davekc Senior Moderator Staff Member Fleet Owner

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      That is almost a little too factual. You didn't address "feelings". :p Well maybe a little with the redheads. lol
       
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    • iceroadtrucker

      iceroadtrucker Veteran Expediter Driver

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      Moot Let me tell something that happened in Small town Named Turin Iowa. While I was in the Service Back in 82 The town had a vote for Mayor and Council members. Well They had write ins. The whole Town was Fed Up with the crap of the Town Council and the Mayor junk. There was a man named Frank Adams who was the towns Back Smith and ran the Black Smith shop in Turin. He had a Dog named Pepper (Pepper Adams) a Schnauzer. Well the Town wrote Pepper Adams name as a write in on all the ballots. Guess what he was Elected. Onawa the Next town over where the Court House who did the count had a tizzy fit. Did it happen Yup...

      Pepper Adams only Caine Mayor , Treasurer, council, a lot got done after that. Like I said the people got the attention of the Politicians.. YES WE Can we fight City Hall YOU BETCHA WE CAN......

      Throw those slugs outa Washington DC?? You Betcha We Can.

      Stand up to a Billion Dollar Company ?? You Betcha We Can!!! YES SIR!!

      Washington DC thugs
      State Thugs
      City Thugs
      Company Thugs

      They all can be taken care of BY (WE THE PEOPLE)

      When the United States Gov't & State Gov't & Companies cater to immigrant's and forget the Citizen's and the Vets its time (We The People) make a Stand!!!

      Enough is Enough...
      Makes me mad as all get up when They get free food vouchers Money, Health Care and Dental.
      While there are Vets out here that got to come up with thousands of dollars so their wives can have surgery that they need... Because the health care they pay for wont cover a 2nd surgeon. Really....

      To those that cater U Closed the Door so u think...
      In the service we are Trained to Breach the Wall.

      There was a good Submarine movie (Down Periscope) At the End of the movie
      The 2 Star Admiral Aboard a Nuclear Sub. Targeted that Renegade Sub (USS Mustang) and It was Acknowledged by the Mustangs Captain.
      However the Captain of the Mustang had already fired 3 of his Live Torpedoes. As you know in the End even though the Mustang Acknowledge Being Targeted They still won the Game as all 3 Live Torpedoes hit destroyed there Target.

      FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION!!!

      You all have a nice weekend...
      Garbage is take out..


      HTCSWICC.jpg
       
      Last edited: May 15, 2016
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    • iceroadtrucker

      iceroadtrucker Veteran Expediter Driver

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    • Scuba

      Scuba Veteran Expediter

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    • Scuba

      Scuba Veteran Expediter

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      I notice no one complained when bongo banned people from certain oops I mean the exact same countries
       
    • hapearce1
      Pacman

      hapearce1 Seasoned Expediter Owner/Operator

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      I respect others opinions, I really do, but sometimes I wonder how political opinions are formed.

      While there are a laundry list of conservative issues one could focus on, ditto could be said for liberals, in any election, the PEOPLE decide what’s most important to them.

      In 2016, most conservatives found the Economy and Illegal Immigration as most important to address.

      Now, late 2018, we can see why Trump was picked, no other conservative candidate had the strength to stand up to the Fake News. They were all marshmallows. Our Economy is growing, Unemployment at record lows, border security is taken seriously, and all the “Establishment” liberals and conservatives can do is talk non issues, like how he held his hands at a funeral.

      The Red Make America Great Again hat is America’s version of France’s yellow jacket.

      Seeing that for the last 36 years, a Bush or a Clinton was Secretary of State or higher for 32 of those years, and Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton were the Media’s darlings with all the donations flowing to them, most people would have written Trump in their own blood on those ballots.
       
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