Second Annual PPP TV News Trust Poll

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
How the game (and the audience) is played:

Gob Killed Earl Milford

That was funny. And tragic. And truth.

I've never been a fan of tv news, which is odd, being ADD - you'd think I'd prefer the short, quick, jump-to-the-next-clip style, but I hate it. I need to read it, so I can reread what I didn't quite catch, pause to check the background/cred of a source, double check the claims, and just think about how it fits with what I already know - television just doesn't allow for that. And they insist on telling me things I don't giveadam about [celebrities] till I turn it off.
I think tv is responsible for the 'low information' voters mentioned in Mr Lofgren's article, and that's worrisome.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I think tv is responsible for the 'low information' voters mentioned in Mr Lofgren's article, and that's worrisome.
Largely it is (responsible for) - and it is a taylor-made medium for accomplishing what it is doing (creating low information voters)

And that it is occurring, isn't by accident either.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Fox and Friends, opinion and news. My point exactly. And the opinion is so interspersed with the news that it's almost impossible to differentiate the two. Fox and Friends is virtually all commentary, where any news that gets delivered is so delivered expressly for the purpose of commentating on the stories. You can count on one hand how many news stories Fox and Friends reports on that is done so without commentary. That's done on purpose. It's textbook, literally.

As for always having opposing viewpoints, no, they don't. I've watched too many times where a single person will be interviewed, with no opposing viewpoint. Interviews about a news topic, incidentally, are not news, they are by design and by definition, commentary. I've also watched where they will interview someone and the interviewer actually gets combative with the person being interviewed, rather than maintain the unimpassioned objectivity of a reporter or interviewer.

On the rare occasions where Fox does present opposing viewpoints, it's always presented in the context of adversarial commentary, where the right gangs up on the left, because the interviewer is generally a part of the right. (Same thing happens on CNN, in reverse, and it's just as disgusting).

Don't be fooled, manipulated, hoodwinked into thinking Fox News is "Fair and Balanced" simply because they say they are. They're not. They give lip service to both, and it's done in the scope and context of the right-wing version of what is fair and balanced, which isn't fair and balanced at all.

As far as their ratings go, as if that's supposed to mean something, there are Reality TV shows with much higher ratings, none of which have anything to do with reality. Same as Fix News.

Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno

In other words, the number of people who watch Fox News is not evidence that they're fair and balanced, nor that they tell the truth, nor.... that's it's even news.



Your taking the one show Fox and Friends and lumping it in with all of the other Fox shows. Yes they are clearly a commentary/news show. I mean people aren't robots. They have opinions. If you just want hard news watch Special Report with Brett Bair first half hour. All news. Just the facts. No opinions.Robot like. Regarding the opposing viewpoints. Yes they do. They might not have them on at the same time,but they will have one person with a point of view and then will have the other person maybe a half hour later. I watch the shows and I've seen it done over and over. They have opposing view points on EVERY show. On the FIVE show they have Bob Beckel giving the liberal viewpoint on every show. Even on the strictly opinion shows like Hannity he ALWAYS has a liberal on his panel giving their viewpoint on every show. Oreilly the same. Your claim that Fox News rarely gives opposing viewpoints is just not accurate.We'll just have to disagree on that point. About your assertion that the interviewer becomes combative. In a way isn't that a good thing? You have guests come on that are mouthpieces for one party or the other and they just give answers from some talking points memo. I like it that they try to cut through the bull and get to the NEWS.
They might give the right wing version of news,but it is INCLUDED along with the left wing version. The difference is they are the only ones that do that on a consistent basis. MSNBC,CNN,ABC,CBS,NBC,PBS. give the left wing view and give the right wing view occasionally. You can see that Fox is outnumbered. By the way I view Fox News as a source. I don't view them as the final distillation,but they are by far the most accurate in their news.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Largely it is (responsible for) - and it is a taylor-made medium for accomplishing what it is doing (creating low information voters)

And that it is occurring, isn't by accident either.

I actually think that this apathy for information and the lack of knowledge comes not from the boob tube generation which I'm part of but rather by the lack of real concern from the WW2 generation who were sold the bill of goods over trusting the government. It seems that those who were blindly led to think that we can be better by continuing the programs that were started by FDR and those who were very left, and expanding on them to reach the goals which resulted in giving us the quagmire of programs that have returned nothing but debt to the country. Without the start in the 30s through the 60's, we would not come close to what we have today in lethargic and ignorant citizen who can't but help vote blindly.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Your taking the one show Fox and Friends and lumping it in with all of the other Fox shows.
Well, no, I'm really not. I was talking about Fox and Friends, but it's certainly easy enough to lump them altogether, since all of the shows come from the same marching orders. They are all, more or less, the same.

Yes they are clearly a commentary/news show. I mean people aren't robots. They have opinions.
Nothing wrong with that, except they try and pass themselves off as impartial journalists, which they are not.

If you just want hard news watch Special Report with Brett Bair first half hour. All news. Just the facts. No opinions.Robot like.
Oh, you need to watch his show a little more closely, and with a careful eye and ear. While the first half hour of Brett Bair's show contains more news than commentary, and while it is certainly robot-like, it's hardly free from commentary. It has loads of it.

Regarding the opposing viewpoints. Yes they do. They might not have them on at the same time,but they will have one person with a point of view and then will have the other person maybe a half hour later. I watch the shows and I've seen it done over and over. They have opposing view points on EVERY show.
Remember Hank Williams Jr? They never had an opposing viewpoint on ANY show. That interview was set up and designed to bash Obama, even though the story was Williams being removed from the Monday Night Football opening because of his remarks. Not only was the whole thing set up to deflect from the real issue, they failed to have an opposing viewpoint on either issue, the real one or the deflection.

On the FIVE show they have Bob Beckel giving the liberal viewpoint on every show. Even on the strictly opinion shows like Hannity he ALWAYS has a liberal on his panel giving their viewpoint on every show. Oreilly the same. Your claim that Fox News rarely gives opposing viewpoints is just not accurate.We'll just have to disagree on that point.
We'll have to disagree on what exactly is an opposing viewpoint. More often than not when an opposing viewpoint is shown on Fox, it's not to show an opposing viewpoint in order to give their viewers both side of the story, but rather the opposing viewpoint is more akin to a Christian being fed to lions. the opposing viewpoint is presented solely as fodder for discussion, usually about how wrong or absurd the opposing viewpoint is in the first place.

About your assertion that the interviewer becomes combative. In a way isn't that a good thing?
In almost all cases, no, it's an extraordinarily bad thing. You have someone (the interviewer) actually taking sides against someone they are interviewing. That's not journalism. The only time is becomes journalism is when the interviewer becomes combative towards someone who has done something wrong and refuses to admit to it, and the interviewer is trying to extract more facts. During a political interview, being combative is become part of the story, which should never happen with a reporter. Ever.

You have guests come on that are mouthpieces for one party or the other and they just give answers from some talking points memo. I like it that they try to cut through the bull and get to the NEWS.
I could get on board with that if they even attempted once in a while to cut through the bull of a right-wing mouthpiece, but they never do. And they don't because they are also part of that mouthpiece. They have their marching orders straight from the top, and it's no secret what those orders are.

They might give the right wing version of news,but it is INCLUDED along with the left wing version. The difference is they are the only ones that do that on a consistent basis.
No, no, no. Watch them more closely and with a jaundiced skeptical eye and you'll see it. Pretend they aren't Fox News and pretend you don't already buy into the crap they're shoveling, pretend you are going to grade them on Fair and Balanced without you yourself taking a position one way or the other on the content. Pretend you are not left or right, but clueless of which is which, and that they are not pandering to guttural and reptilian instincts. Pretend you don't agree or disagree with anything they say. Just watch and listen, and you'll see it.

MSNBC,CNN,ABC,CBS,NBC,PBS. give the left wing view and give the right wing view occasionally. You can see that Fox is outnumbered.
You're giving the networks named above far more credit than they deserve. They give the left win version of the news, and give the right wing view rarely, virtually never. And on the rare occasion they do, it's for the purpose of making the right wing position look bad, wrong or flat out stupid. It's fodder for liberal commentary, to be used as talking points for liberal views. It's the exact opposite of Fox News, where the same thing is done in reverse. You think it happen more fairly and more balanced, but that's because they keep pounding that mantra into your head to the point where you actually start believing it.

By the way I view Fox News as a source. I don't view them as the final distillation,but they are by far the most accurate in their news.
Then you are, sadly I fear, broken. They are precisely as accurate in their news reporting as the other networks you named above. The only difference is you agree with Fox's point of view, but that doesn't make them more accurate. It simply makes them more agreeable.

I watch Fox News rarely anymore, but occasionally, as a news source, but in the same way I watch the others rarely, but occasionally. To see what they are saying, contrast and compare, use other resources, filter for the Five Ws, and then make up my own mind. I implore you top not regard Fox News, or any other mainstream media as trusted or accurate, because they are all biased and agenda driven. Even if the agenda is the same as yours.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
FoxNews is no more "Fair and Balanced" as MSNBC or any other cable news network.

Here's a pretty good illustration of what FoxNews is all about.

They've taken the, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". to heights never seen before in journalism.


FoxNewsFairAndBalanced2006.jpg
 
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