Ron Paul wins Virgin Islands with 29%...

[Jefferson3000]

It is hard to know what would've happened otherwise. There have been obvious anomalies in almost every state. Most were against Paul, but also Santorum and Gingrich at times. The interesting thing though, is that the beneficiary of any such abnormality in statistics is always Romney.

It is statistically possible to win the nomination without actually winning ANY state's popular vote. The only qualification as I understand it is that the candidate must secure the vote of a majority of delegates in at least one state. Reagan nearly pulled a coup against the incumbent Gerald Ford in in '76 by taking the delegates from all the unbound states. This is also how Abraham Lincoln got the nomination in 1860, with about four other contenders, of whom he was nowhere near being the front runner.

One thing is for sure, it will be an historical convention.

 

[aristotle]

By what right or reason should a candidate doing so poorly as to score only 5-10% of the popular vote expect any acknowledgement whatsoever?

Too many Ron Paul supporters trek into the conspiratorial tall grass believing their guy has been cheated. Seemingly, a persecution complex permeates this candidacy and Paul himself sets the tone. So fantastic is the devotion to Ron Paul that his followers cannot or will not understand the Paul message is a resounding flop. Being in a state of denial, or to save face, his devotees say, "we were robbed." Ron Paul is finishing dead last in several states. Wake up.

 

[davekc]

Is Romney stealing the election? Maybe, but no real proof has been presented, just theories and stuff by bloggers. If there was, democrats would be all over it as they currently think Romney is their biggest threat based on their own omission. Where is the truth? Like all things political, follow where the money is being spent.
That includes both sides. Very little is being spent to do anything with Paul.

 

[Pilgrim]

The John Birch Society? OMG! You mean those wackos who stand for an originalist, Founding Fathers-type of interpretation of the US Constitution by supporting a Constitutional Republic, of limiting the powers of government, advocating strong State's Rights, and advocating personal liberty and personal responsibility? The ones who are against the redistribution of wealth, economic interventionism, collectivism, totalitarianism, communism, socialism and fascism? The nutjobs who are against a One-World-Government, The United Nations, NAFTA, CAFTA and other political free trade agreements? Those crackpots who believe the Constitution has been watered down and devalued purposely to favor political and economic globalization? Those morons who dare to allow themselves to be characterized by others as a conservative, right wing patriot group?

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you, that Ron Paul would have any association with such a group. It's appallingly a-Pauling.

Cute, but straight from the label on the Paul-aid bottle and not quite inclusive of what the JBS has stood for since its inception in 1958. But it's been said that "if you like Ron Paul you'll love the John Birch Society" and it's understandable why they go together so well.

For those not familiar with JBS, over the years they've espoused such notions that Dwight Eisenhower was a communist agent and the US at the time was under the control of the Communist Party; Wm. F Buckley, Jr denounced them as "idiotic" and "paranoid", thus banning them from the mainstream of conservative political activism. Other conspiricy theories involved the control of the US by the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Illuminati, and the Rockefellers. They've been regarded over the years as a far right fringe group, and would certainly fit the mold of a group in sync with other Paul fringe fan clubs. Lately, they've been trying to develop a more mainstream persona, even becoming a sponsor of CPAC. Regardless, no serious contender for national political office would want his name associated with this group.

Ron Paul's World - NYTimes.com

Far-Right John Birch Society 2010 - ABC News

http://www.conservapedia.com/John_Birch_Society

 

[Turtle]

Well, it wasn't meant to be all-inclusive of what the JBS is now, or has ever has stood for since its inception in 1958. It was meant to cite the ideas they and Paul have in common, as a means of illustrating why he would associate with such a group. I agree with some of Paul's ideas, but not all of them, and I'm certainly not going to pick a singular idea about the man and then use that one idea to define him as a whole. I can say the same thing about Romney, Santorum, even Gingrich. Bad ideas don't necessarily negate any good ideas. The same holds true for the John Birch Society. They have some really bad ideas and some really good ideas, and I'd be a fool to dismiss them and their good ideas outright because of some of their bad ideas.

 

[AMonger]

...and yet, somehow, the primary, brought to you by Diebold, will likely show that the tremendously motivated Paul voters somehow decided to vote for someone else. Odd, isn't it?

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[AMonger]

Until the validity of elections is restored, proof isn't really possible. As long as manipulable machines are used, there can be no verifiable election.

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[AMonger]

By what right or reason should a candidate doing so poorly as to score only 5-10% of the popular vote expect any acknowledgement whatsoever?

Too many Ron Paul supporters trek into the conspiratorial tall grass believing their guy has been cheated. Seemingly, a persecution complex permeates this candidacy and Paul himself sets the tone. So fantastic is the devotion to Ron Paul that his followers cannot or will not understand the Paul message is a resounding flop. Being in a state of denial, or to save face, his devotees say, "we were robbed." Ron Paul is finishing dead last in several states. Wake up.

Look at RLent's post. That's entirely representative of how things happen, time after time. Ron Paul fills halls with supporters universally known to be fanatical and zealous, and they just evaporate on election day? You don't have to be so rancher to recognize manure. I posted a couple weeks ago a link to a page showing the numbers, how votes appear to be shifted in every primary.

As long as votes are tabulated by a company who has openly said their guy would win, no fair election can take place.

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[AMonger]

Not to mention, Paul's results under-perform in relation to exit polling. Curious, huh?

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[AMonger]

That's what leftists do, not conservatives.

2012: Ron Paul or not at all.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[RLENT]

Cute, but straight from the label on the Paul-aid bottle and not quite inclusive of what the JBS has stood for since its inception in 1958.

No, actually what is cute is continued attempts at using logical fallacies to tar those you oppose (or despise) politically .... I'm half expecting to open a dictionary to "logical fallacy" and see your avatar there ...

So, let me see if I have this straight: is it your premise that because someone was (or is) associated in some manner or another with the JBS, or that they have some degree of agreement with at least some of the stated goals or ideals that the JBS espouses, this somehow tars them ?

If that's the case, then let's see if we can have some real fun with it.

First, let me ask you some questions:

1. Are you opposed to Communism ?

2. Are you opposed to unlimited, unrestrained government ?

3. Are you opposed to the redistribution of wealth by the state ?

4. Are you against Socialism ?

5. Are you against Fascism ?

6. Are you in favor of a Constitutional Republic as the form of government for these here United States ?

If you answered yes to any of the questions (1 - 6) above, then you share and hold in common certain ideals of the John Birch Society. At this point you may protest that these are fairly general things that anyone any might share in common with some other individual or group - even someone who holds erroneous, misguided, or otherwise highly detestable views.

My answer to that would be: precisely

But as we continue to explore this further we will see that the above is only the tip of the iceberg with respect to your own connections to (possible, highly likely, and clearly evident) and support of (including financial support) the John Birch Society ....

Let us continue:

7. Were/are you an admirer or supporter of Ronald Reagan ?

8. Were you in favor of impeaching President Bill Clinton ?

9. Were/are you a fan or supporter of Barry Goldwater ?

If you answer in the affirmative to any of the above then you also are also espousing causes or supporting candidates and officeholders which the John Birch Society or it's members also espoused and supported.

10. Are you a fan and admirer of John Wayne ?

If the answer to question 10 is yes, then you are an admirer of a member of the John Birch Society. Even if the answer to the above is no (that you are not a fan), I will assume that is highly likely that you have, at least once, seen movies in which John Wayne appeared. Possibly you paid (one way or another - box office, videotape, DVD, cable subscription) to see this feature .... in which case you would be funneling money (through royalties) to a member of the John Birch Society .... and quite possibly indirectly funding the JBS.

11. Are you a member of Gun Owners of America ?

If the answer to question 11 is yes, then you are a member of an organization which was founded by a John Birch Society member, California State Senator, H._L._Richardson

12. Have you ever purchased any food or drink from the Carl's Jr. fast food chain ?

If the answer to question 12 is yes, then it shows further evidence of your willingness to patronize members of, and possibly financially support - even if indirectly - the John Birch Society. (The Carl's Jr. chain was founded by Carl_Karcher, a member of the John Birch Society)

13. Do you (or your family) purchase or consume loaves of bread which are sealed with the common plastic clip that is used for that purpose ?

If the answer to question 13 is in the affirmative (which seems highly likely, given the prevalence of these clips being used to seal loaves of bread), then you have been, are, and probably will continue to fund the John Birch Society into the future.

You see the common plastic clip used to seal loaves of bread was invented by Floyd G. Paxton - a member, a director and past President of the John Birch Society - and is manufactured by the Kwik Lok Corporation based in Yakima, Washington with manufacturing plants in Yakima and New Haven, Indiana .... and part of the proceeds for each clip go to the John Birch Society.

14. Do you regularly read and/or quote or link articles from the American Enterprise Institute ?

Of course, anyone who is at all paying attention knows that AEI is a place you have repeatedly referred to, linked to and quoted.

Prominent conservative Phyllis_Schlafly, founder of the conservative Eagle_Forum, was once a researcher for the American Enterprise Institute ....

Mrs. Schlafly also was once actually a memberof the John Birch Society (something which apparently Dr. Paul never was) .... ergo AEI is connected to the JBS ....

I'm curious whether in light of this shocking revelation whether you consider the fact that Mrs Schafly - a highly respected figure in many conservative circles - was once a member of the John Birch Society (a fact that indicates at least some fundamental agreement with their values at some point or another) somehow "taints" her ?

As we can see above, it's quite possible that you yourself may have many connections to the John Birch Society (and I didn't really spend all that much time on it) ..... but now, let's explore some possible "other connections" you might have ....

15. Have you ever read the "Turner Diaries" or "Hunter" ? (LDB - you be sure to pay real close attention here)

16. If the answer to question 15 is yes, did you purchase the book ?

If the answer to questions 15 and 16 are affirmative, then you are reading material written by Andrew Macdonald - which was a pseudonym used by William_Luther_Pierce - the founder of the white separatist National_Alliance (originally the American Nazi Party) and you may be funding a white separatist Nazi (even if indirectly) .... and even if you got the book for free, this might indicate an inclination on your part to read material written by folks who ascribe to those sort of beliefs ....

17. Have you ever referred to President Obama as our "boy President" ?

I don't need to ask what the answer is to the above question - I've checked using the Advanced Search feature, searching on your screen name, search term "boy President", Soapbox only - the answer is a resounding yes, returning 28 total instances of you using the phrase.

You seem to be quite a fan of that phraseology for some reason or another .... enamored with it even ....

I think that the above is ..... highly interesting - both in light of fact that you have in the past repeatedly tried to tar Dr. Paul with racism (through connections which could be termed tenuous at best) ..... and in light of the fact that you indicate your location to be "TN & AL" ... both places where racism was once highly prevalent (often passed down generationally) ... and where it is not entirely unknown by any stretch of the imagination, even today.

Just curious here - on the Tennessee aspect of that location, that wouldn't happen to be anywhere near Pulaski by chance would it ?

Well .... no matter really ....

BTW, for some strange reason or another, this whole last aspect sort of seems to remind me of those right, who are often very vocally anti-homosexual ..... and then later are outed or come out of the closet .... but then again, it may entirely unlike that .... or not ....

If you've managed to make it this far and have come to the conclusion that the above is all rather silly (and it is indeed), then my only question is:

So why do you continue to do it ?

If you intended this most recent post to be some masterstroke of your command of logic and reasoned, sane thought, then I would have to say:

EPIC FAIL

 

[Jefferson3000]

I doubt I was ever entirely a "party guy" for the GOP. To be a "party guy," I would need to champion the whole "anyone but a Democrat" idea. Of Dems have their version of that as well. But at this stage, I fail to see how either party represents the people of America. No, they represent the special interests. They both work for the same folks, even if they portray different favors, why aren't the Dems openly trying to stop Ron Paul? Probably because they think that under ordinary election situations, that he is being handled perfectly well by those in his own party. However, I still do not believe that this is a normal election cycle, and Paul is not an ordinary candidate. Obama doesn't mind going against Romney. They have the same healthcare, foreign policy, and Keynesian economic view. Goldman Sachs, Citi, Ally, and Chase, whose CEOs are all intertwined into the Federal Reserve system. The whole right vs. left is merely a ruse to keep our eye off the ball.

Here is my assessment of what I see occurring in this cycle, especially in the GOP. Gingrich and Santorum are irrelevant choices. The "powers that be" within the party want Romney. Period. newt and Rick are there merely to muddy the water and detain a Paul assault on Romney. We've only seen one instance so far of a head to head match up with the two, and that was in Virginia. Despite the rhetoric that Paul is a "5%er," Paul took 41% of the vote. Yes, he lost, but 41 is nothing to sneeze at either. I doubt that Newt or Rick know they are being used by the system, as I'm sure their ego is being fed by the leadership that they need them to stick it out so that America has a "conservative alternative." *rolls eyes*. Nonetheless, this is just a Lee Atwater style gimmick to subdue Paul until after April when the states go winner-take-all. When did I decide this? When I saw that Rasmussen poll that came out last month, where for the first and ONLY time, Santorum and only Santorum was shown to beat Obama in a general election. When I saw that, I knew they were going to try and raise the zombie to life one more time. They had to and they did, just before he was ready to fold.

 

[RLENT]

Heheheh .... ya gotta love it when the real criminals have the stupidity to call the police on those who are actually trying to get them to follow the rules. These guys must be taking lessons from someone on self-delivered footbullets:

Missouri Caucus Anecdotes: Arguments, Arrests, and a Good Day for Ron Paul

The Missouri caucuses may have marked Ron Paul’s most successful day of the 2012 campaign, as anecdotes from across the state indicate a strong showing.

To varying degrees, proceedings grew contentious between Paul supporters and local GOP officials. The gist of the disputes: GOP organizers said the Paul backers were boisterous and obstructive. Paul backers wanted to be heard.

While speculation has been noted on a national level that Ron Paul and Mitt Romney are somehow colluding in the 2012 race, anecdotal evidence from Missouri suggests some cooperation: In counties where Paul supporters showed well, Romney supporters and Paul supporters appeared together on mixed delegate slates. Local GOP officials said they couldn’t say, one way or another, whether Paul and Romney backers seemed to be cooperating in any organized way at individual caucus sites.

In St. Charles County, organizers and police shut down the caucus amid a bitter dispute between Ron Paul supporters and the caucus chairman. Two Ron Paul supporters were arrested, then released. A police helicopter showed up. The caucus was held in a high school gym, and about 2,500 people attended. “It’s like the Hatfields and the McCoys around here,” former St. Charles GOP chairman Tom Kipers said of the ongoing dispute between county GOP leaders and Paul supporters. http://abcn.ws/xY22zt

The Kansas City Star reports that things got contentious in Clay County, too: ”In Clay County, arguments between Paul supporters and others became so intense that the caucus chairman threatened to have voters removed by force. … [Paul supporter:] ‘We raised a number of points of order, points of information, points of parliamentary inquiry, many of which have been ignored.’”
Missouri caucuses marked by contention, with no clear victor yet - KansasCity.com

Boone County, which encompasses Columbia and the University of Missouri, elected a slate of Ron Paul-backing delegates, after Paul supporters succeeded in electing their own caucus chair. (That’s a normal part of caucus procedure: the first vote taken is on who will chair the meeting.) One GOP member described the Paul supporters as “loud, boisterous,” and “obnoxious” at the meeting — although the local GOP chairman said things were civil and that GOP officials get along fine with the Paul people there. The caucus elected 48 Ron Paul delegates and 5 Mitt Romney delegates, according to a local GOP official.

Greene County (a large GOP county in Southwest Missouri, encompassing Springfield) elected a mixed slate of 65 Ron Paul delegates, 40 Mitt Romney delegates, and six Rick Santorum delegates. “A few [caucus attendees] got a little loud,” said Danette Proctor, the county GOP chair who presided over the caucus. “But I just said, ‘Be quiet.’”

In keeping with what seems to be a trend, a Ron Paul supporter in Lincoln County alleged that GOP officials violated caucus rules in an attempt to silence Paul supporters. Quote from a Ron Paul supporter, as posted on a blog: “They practically ignored the State GOP guidelines and rules. The severely butchered Robert’s Rules of Order.” Note: GOP caucuses (in Missouri, as well as in Iowa) are governed by Robert’s Rules of Order, although Missouri counties can use their own rules … and then adopt new rules after electing a caucus chairman.
Breaking: Election Fraud in LINCOLN Co. Missouri Caucus | Lorien Johnson

...... snip .....

The state GOP acknowledged that it had heard of a few disagreements at caucuses around the state, but nothing else on par with what happened in St. Charles.

Missouri Caucus Anecdotes: Arguments, Arrests, and a Good Day for Ron Paul

 

[Jefferson3000]

It was an intriguing day in MO for sure. I saw an AP headline around midnight where the MO state GOP issued an apology for the behavior of the St. Charles GOP officials in shutting down the meeting. The promised that they indeed would reconvene and elect delegates.

RLENT,

I read that article you linked. Too hilarious. Lots of people wrote Paul off as a failure when he said he was after delegates. I don't think they understood the process.

 

[AMonger]

It was an intriguing day in MO for sure. I saw an AP headline around midnight where the MO state GOP issued an apology for the behavior of the St. Charles GOP officials in shutting down the meeting. The promised that they indeed would reconvene and elect delegates.

This happened in numerous places 4 years ago, too. The local mafia boss (that is, the local GOP party chair) would check out the situation at the caucus, see it was loaded with Ron Paul backers and that he was going to win in a landslide, and announce the caucus was canceled. I don't know how they ended up selecting delegates after that, but it wasn't according to party rules, and the right man didn't get 'em.



--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[layoutshooter]

This happened in numerous places 4 years ago, too. The local mafia boss (that is, the local GOP party chair) would check out the situation at the caucus, see it was loaded with Ron Paul backers and that he was going to win in a landslide, and announce the caucus was canceled. I don't know how they ended up selecting delegates after that, but it wasn't according to party rules, and the right man didn't get 'em.



--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

Posts some links with stories on this. I would love to read them.

 

[RLENT]

Posts some links with stories on this. I would love to read them.

I'd try Googling "2008 Nevada GOP Convention Ron Paul" if you are really interested .... that ought to get you started. It's no secret that it occurred.

But in case you pressed for time, here's what can eventually happen when the corrupt PTB try this crap .... keep in mind that RP supporters have already taken over the Clark County GOP - which is Vegas - and has the largest population in Nevada (and the largest amount of delegates to the state GOP convention):

"Ron Paul Nevada Team Continues Winning Streak in GOP County Conventions

HENDERSON, Nevada – 2012 Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul swept all state delegates from Nye County and a strong majority of state delegates from Douglas County in these areas’ respective GOP county conventions held Saturday. Yesterday’s success story from Nye County is especially notable because the county party establishment leadership attempted to break the rules in order to win, and ironically this effort destroyed their ability to send any representation to the state convention.


Nye County Republican Party leadership attempted to fill empty precinct delegate slots with people who failed to be elected or even participate in the February 4th caucus precinct meetings. Ron Paul supporters, however, worked tirelessly to ensure that the Republican Party rules were upheld and that Nevada State statutes were complied with. The 12-term Congressman from Texas’ supporters refused to allow the convening of a convention with unelected delegates. This delay in starting the convention ultimately frustrated the less-dedicated establishment attendees who refused to play by the rules.


After a tiring circle of threats from the chair to shut down the convention unless attendees would turn a blind eye to the cheating, Paul supporters elected a chair determined to conduct the proceedings in a fair manner. When this blow was dealt to the current Nye County Republican Party leadership, they all departed – forfeiting any intention to represent or lead their county to the state convention. The end result in Nye County was a fair, compliant election of a slate of delegates and alternate delegates to the state convention, all backing Dr. Paul.


Farther west in Douglas County, Ron Paul supporters locked down more than half of the 108 state delegates and many alternate delegate positions. Fortunately, Douglas County citizens were able to make their voice heard loud and clear without having to circumvent the obstacle of an establishment determined to override the people.


Reflecting on the powerful impact the Paul conservative movement has in Nevada, Ron Paul 2012 Nevada State Chairman Carl Bunce said, “Supporters of Dr. Paul are reshaping Republican politics in Nevada. They have the stamina and determination to bring the party back to its limited government roots, county by county.”


“Beltway insiders might dismiss it, some in the media may choose to overlook it, and establishment party hacks will at times cheat, but nothing can stop the Ron Paul-influenced reawakening of the conservative movement in America. Voters are smarter than the representation they’re getting and the empty rhetoric of fake conservatives and serial hypocrites,” said Ron Paul 2012 National Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton.


“Republicans understand Ron Paul is the only candidate who can challenge status quo candidate Mitt Romney, defeat Obama, and Restore America Now. Proof of this is ordinary citizens including first-time political activists investing their time to become the delegates required to win Dr. Paul the GOP nomination,” added Mr. Benton.


The Nye and Douglas successes add to a decisive victory in Clark County, the populous county encompassing Las Vegas. In Clark, Paul secured approximately 60 percent of the delegates heading to the state convention, and won a supermajority of the Clark County Republican Executive Board. Progress and momentum such as in these examples is hardly limited to Nevada. It has occurred in other states including Washington and Missouri."​

 

[layoutshooter]

Thanks, I did not doubt that it happened. Just was asking if he had any links. It helps to post them for those of us who are not as good on the internet as others.

 

[RLENT]

Thanks, I did not doubt that it happened. Just was asking if he had any links.

Sure, no prob ...

I don't have anything bookmarked or I would have linked it ...

It helps to post them for those of us who are not as good on the internet as others.

Yup (it's a big internet out there) - that why I provided the search terms that ought yield some easy results ....

 

[layoutshooter]

Sure, no prob ...

I don't have anything bookmarked or I would have linked it ...


Yup (it's a big internet out there) - that why I provided the search terms that ought yield some easy results ....

Many in here may find this strange but I REALLY HATE computers and look forward to the day when they go away. I know that will never happen, but, if I ever find a way to do what I want with the rest of my life I will seldom use one. Don't need them on the "River" (The Straights of Detroit) or Lake Erie.