Question on Weigh Stations !

[rmctt2]

Does anyonr know the states that require "ALL" Commercial Vehicles to stop at Weigh Station AKA "Chicken Coops" ?
This includes CV's and Sprinters !
I know KY is one..
Was driving through NY,NJ,CT,RI on I95 last night..
I was misled by what the sign said in NJ and I think I drove past a Chicken Coop that was open..
I am in a Sprinter..
Thanks
RMCTT2

 

[Jefferson3000]

Alabama is one. Cargo vans also must log in that state. Going in and out of FL, all cmv's are to stop at the Ag. Inspection station.

 

[Turtle]

I'm in a Sprinter, too. But unless I'm placarded, I'm not a commercial vehicle.

 

[pete222]

If the Sign for the Weigh station says ALL Commercial Vehicles and you have commercial plates (tags) You should stop better safe than sorry Most times they will wave you threw

 

[RLENT]

I'm inclined to go with your view on this Pete.

Part of the problems come about as result of poor signage in my opinion at the scales - is a van considered a "truck" ? (As in "All Trucks Must Enter ...." ... "All Commercial Vehicles over X" would be much clearer) Probably depends on who ya ask - someone driving an 18-wheeler may not consider it to be ..... but a DOT officer or scalemaster may - or may not.

Another part of the problem stems from the definition of "commercial vehicle" which is generally a state definition, and "commercial motor vehicle", which is defined by the Feds, and which definition is often adopted by states - and who may, themselves, differentiate between the two.

This is what I do know from my own personal experience of either reading actual text of motor vehicle statutes, or reading publications put out by state DMV's or DOT's, and lastly by direct personal observation.

Virginia: If you are a commercial vehicle and have a GVW of 7500 lbs. or more you are legally required to scale. I found this out by reading a PDF available on the Virginia DOT/BMV website.

Michigan: If you are a commercial vehicle with a GVW of greater than 5000 lbs. (I think) you are required to scale in Michigan. I found this out by reading the actual Michigan statute pertaining to scaling. Having said that, I can say that I have driven by open scalehouses on I-75 in MI probably no less than 40 times (before I was aware of what the law actually said) and have never been chased down - along with observing a number of vehicles similar to mine doing the same thing as I drove by. Since I became aware that I was legally required to scale, every MI scalehouse I have passed has been closed.

Iowa: At every scalehouse I have passed in IA the signs have said that only vehicles of 10,000 or more (and maybe placarded ?) are required to enter the scales. Since I don't haul hazmat and I am under 10K I never enter Iowa scales.

Finally, Kentucky: I entered a scale on 75 southbound in Kentucky because I had heard here on EO that vans were required to scale - since that time I have received conflicting information on it. Interestingly, when I scaled that time in KY I was redlighted and required to go up to the scalehouse with my papers. When I entered the scalemaster seemed to be mildly amused that I had entered the scale (my take on it) - he asked to see my registration - and the only thing he was interested in on it was what was my GVW. As soon as he was able to locate that he said "Ok, thanks." Like I said, my take was that he was not really expecting me to scale .... which may say something (or not)

Jeff: Are cargo vans required to log in AL if they are not hauling hazmat ? It is my understanding that if they are not hauling hazmat, there is no logging requirement ?

Richard: What did the sign say in NJ ?

 

[Yankee]

the federal law says 10001 or greater you log otherwise no you do not have to log period if your logging than its because the company you haul for requires you to read the federal dot law

 

[greg334]

I'm in a Sprinter, too. But unless I'm placarded, I'm not a commercial vehicle.

SO turtle you do this for free?

If you haul for compensation and/or for hire (including contracting), you are commercial.

The state of Michigan is flaky, a lot of the dot officers don't care about vans but a few are by the letter guys/gals and will get you. There are actually two statutes that define commercial vehicles on the books in the state, but only one defines the weight for scaling.

I talked to my rep in the Michigan house about this issue and he listened and asked a bunch of questions and understands the problem so I really hope that he will do something about changing it back to the 10K+ limit for scaling.

 

[Jefferson3000]

Hey Greg,

Didn't you have an experience at a scale house in AL once while you were in the B unit?

 

[fastman_1]

Alabama Requries a Van to Scale. I know of a van that was Shut Down for 8 Hours for No Log Book This was A few Years ago But It Happened.

 

[greg334]

Hey Greg,

Didn't you have an experience at a scale house in AL once while you were in the B unit?

I didn't have any problems in the van, they looked at my log and told me to go but I got a full inspection and a lecture at the only scale house in Alabama in the truck. The officer was really nice but he was quick to point out the facts.

 

[RLENT]

Yankee - don't think your statement is completely true - since it doesn't address the fact that one also has to comply with state laws as well as federal. And in the case of AL they apparently do require vans to scale and log - my only question on that (which remains unaddressed) is whether AL requires logging for a van that is not placarded or hauling Hazmat.

fastman - can you shed any further light on this ?

 

[greg334]

Yankee - don't think your statement is completely true - since it doesn't address the fact that one also has to comply with state laws as well as federal. And in the case of AL they apparently do require vans to scale and log - my only question on that (which remains unaddressed) is whether AL requires logging for a van that is not placarded or hauling Hazmat.

When I pulled into the scale on I20, I would assume that his command when I pulled into the parking spot and he stood next to my van "I want to see your insurance, registration and log book, please" meant that I did indeed as a van have to log. No hazmat, no nothing except 2000lbs of metal.

 

[RLENT]

Greg,

Great - that was exactly the clarification I was seeking. Thanks much.

 

[Suds43]

All CMV's have to log in AL. including vans..........placarded or not.

 

[RLENT]

Yeah Suds - your reply is exactly what I was talking about with the confusion about definitions. I drive a Sprinter with a GVW of 8550 lbs. - it is not a CMV (commercial motor vehicle) at least from a federal perspective - by virtue of the fact that it is under 10,001. It is however a commercial vehicle. There is a difference.

 

[buckeyewildman]

been in a van the last 4 years never went through any scale or touched a log book as far as Kentucky goes talked to the scale master in northern ky. he said they just make fun of any vans that come through there scale this is the one on 71 south also have a friend used to work at scales on 71 between Cincinnatti and columbus and he said they don,t want the vans in there scales now i,m not saying don,t go through the scales in some of these states its just i never have since i got into a van from my experience and this includes Al. and Va. if your doing something stupid they will enforce all laws if you drive legally and the speed limit they won,t come after you just my experience

 

[Jack_Berry]

so does a van have to log just for the time in al or the last 7-8 days also? there are no hos for under 10,000# so what are they looking for exactly, a vir and vpir for the last 7 days? the pro number?

 

[greg334]

so does a van have to log just for the time in al or the last 7-8 days also? there are no hos for under 10,000# so what are they looking for exactly, a vir and vpir for the last 7 days? the pro number?

I did what Terry said that he does. The previous 7 days are off duty, the day I traveled I logged it exactly as I would drive a truck, pretrip, departing city and time, etc....

 

[terryandrene]

What Greg said. Additionally, for the purpose of the AL regs, I start my on duty period effective when I accept a run offer that takes me to or through AL. Everything before that is off duty. Common sense applies here, as you can't be expected to resurrect the past seven days when you were subject to neither the Federal nor Alabama HOS regulations. However, all bets are off if Officer Bubba thinks differently.

 

[Turtle]

SO turtle you do this for free?

If you haul for compensation and/or for hire (including contracting), you are commercial.

The Sprinter has Commercial license plates issue to me by the Commonwealth of KY, and yet KY doesn't consider me a commercial motor vehicle for the purposes of logging or scaling. They defer verbatim to the FMSCA in that regard.

The state of Michigan is flaky,...

Surely you jest

... a lot of the dot officers don't care about vans but a few are by the letter guys/gals and will get you. There are actually two statutes that define commercial vehicles on the books in the state, but only one defines the weight for scaling.

I talked to my rep in the Michigan house about this issue and he listened and asked a bunch of questions and understands the problem so I really hope that he will do something about changing it back to the 10K+ limit for scaling.

One statue defines "commercial vehicle" (257.7 - “Commercial vehicle” includes all motor vehicles used for the transportation of passengers for hire, or constructed or used for transportation of goods, wares or merchandise, and/or all motor vehicles designed and used for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry any load thereon either independently or any part of the weight of a vehicle or load so drawn.),

and another defines "commercial motor vehicle" (257.7a - same as FMSCA wording),

and yet another defines "truck" (257.75 “Truck” means every motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.).

On scaling, Statute 257.724, Part 5, states: A driver or owner of a commercial vehicle with other vehicles or trailers in combination, a truck or truck tractor, a truck or truck tractor with other vehicles in combination, or any special mobile equipment who fails to stop at or bypasses any scales or weighing station is guilty of a misdemeanor.

257.723 is the part where it deals with all commercial vehicles weiging more than 5,000 pounds, about the door lettering.

I couldn't find anything about weight with regard to scaling. According to 257.724, if you drive a truck as defined by the great state of Michigan (designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property), then you gotta scale in Michigan.

Every time I've ever pulled into a Michigan scale house, they tell me I don't have to scale in Michigan. Flaky? Ya, you betcha.

so does a van have to log just for the time in al or the last 7-8 days also? there are no hos for under 10,000# so what are they looking for exactly, a vir and vpir for the last 7 days? the pro number?

In Alabama I always stop at the scale house, and I always have my log book ready. Panther won't put placarded HAZMAT on a van, but I log for Alabama the same way I logged when hauling HAZMAT for Con-Way NOW. If I was a commercial vehicle at any time in the last 7 days, that's how it gets logged, and if I wasn't, then it gets logged as OOS.