With all the partner carrying going on,(One carrier brokering a load to the other)and how slow things are now.Why not let o/os work with more than one carrier?I mean its possible to get insurance that will cover multiple carriers and there authoritys?The lastest trend "open door policy" that they all proudly display on there web sites.Wait I can broker my own load by a broker they approve and after there cut its not even worth the risk/hassle.I know get your own authority and become a partner yourself lol.The only problem is most carriers frown upon that bcos they no longer have total control over a o/o waiting for the beep,or hold the truck hours on end for a potential load.With the high costs of your own authority,insurance 550.00,gps 100.00 ,45.00 for getloaded all for a cargo van and nobody wanting to pay more than .50 a mile for a load.Honestly how can a little guy even compete with the bigger companys,who have 10 vans,6 d units,4c units,2 e units and a semi on every corner.Lets not mention the fact that they even get priority over loads bidded on over the smaller company.Just seems to me like its a monopoly,a little company if its lucky scrapes up the crumbs after its been brokered several times .Or has to double book freight or ltls just to scrape by.Honestly somethings gatta give!!!How long before the colapse of expediting?trucking?How many companys will fold this year?
Partner?
- Thread starter Twizted1
- Start date
miker
Seasoned Expediter
it's hard ,or it's illegal?
CharlesD
Expert Expediter
Regarding such legality, I've often wondered about that myself. When I first got my authority, I was still leased to a carrier for a while before I went completely independent. Is the legal issue simply about displaying more than one set of numbers at the same time, or about actually running under different numbers at different times, with only the signage showing that you're running that load for?
CharlesD
Expert Expediter
The first post did hit on some of the problems that the small carriers face, but I don't think I'm any worse off now than I was when I was leased to a carrier. If anything, I'm probably doing a tad better than if I was still running exclusively for them, judging from converstations I've had with people still leased to that company and people leased to other carriers. Things aren't easy right now, no matter who you run for, but being on your own does at least give you a little more of a say in things.
I don't know where you got some of those expense numbers from though. My insurance isn't quite as high as that, and that's with two other owner/operators on my cargo. A lot of other people have told me that I'm getting a pretty good deal on my insurance though, so maybe those figures are accurate for some.
For me, the important thing is flexibility. I can think outside of the box a little. I can double up on a couple LTLs if things are looking pretty bleak in a certain area, or I can use an LTL just to cover relocation costs or a long deadhead to get a good load the next day. There are just more options than I had when I was sitting waiting on the phone call from dispatch. It's not easy, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I don't know where you got some of those expense numbers from though. My insurance isn't quite as high as that, and that's with two other owner/operators on my cargo. A lot of other people have told me that I'm getting a pretty good deal on my insurance though, so maybe those figures are accurate for some.
For me, the important thing is flexibility. I can think outside of the box a little. I can double up on a couple LTLs if things are looking pretty bleak in a certain area, or I can use an LTL just to cover relocation costs or a long deadhead to get a good load the next day. There are just more options than I had when I was sitting waiting on the phone call from dispatch. It's not easy, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
The OOs probably are doing loads for more than one carrier, however, theloads are contracted to the carriers the OOs are leased on to, with the carrier taking the responsibility, liability risks and insurance coverage (normally).
I don't believe it's possible to have an insurer cover multiple carriers with multiple authorities under one policy, or at the same time. It's possible to be independent under your own authority, and contract to carry loads from other carriers. But no free beeps with that option.twizted1 said:
If you're running under any given carrier, everything you do is documented under their name, reputation, safety rating, insurance rates, etc. If you were to go and book your own stuff, it would still be under *their* authority, yet they would have no control over anything you're doing. I think it's a great deal that Panther allows OOs to negotiate some of their own loads, but all done through Panther, and for only 15% of the gross. Maybe I don't fully understand that deal, but it sure sounds like an excellent one to me.
If you were to be signed on with CarrierX, and just go around booking your own stuff (under their authorities), you would actually be competing against your own carrier, thereby bringing prices down for your own fellow contractors at CarrierX. Your carrier is probably bidding the same load, however you as an OO might not get it, because there might be 100 trucks ahead of you for that one (ya, I'm exaggerating). If an OO doesn't like having to share the wealth, they're free to leave, and operate under their own authority.
I guess it could be likened to, say, a car dealership, where they have 50 salespeople on commission, and they take turns in who gets to serve the next walk-in. You betcha the dealership has control over the salesperson while he's representing the dealership, and the salesperson is welcome to leave and start his own dealership if he doesn't like sharing.twizted1 said:
It's really really tough, and a lot of work, which is why most are content to share and wait for that beep. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. Or, should I say.. golden goose.twizted1 said:
And isn't that the very premise of free enterprise/capitalism that you are all about? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Seems y'all have some conflicting principles.twizted1 said:
No answer for that one! Perhaps if we all worked our tails off like many of the foreigners do, for peanuts, we'll make it through to better times.twizted1 said:
and PS Twizted1, my comments aren't aimed specifically at *you*, just general, so don't get your socks knotted.
"Is the legal issue simply about displaying more than one set of numbers at the same time, or about actually running under different numbers at different times, with only the signage showing that you're running that load for?"
More than anything it's about displaying more than one set of numbers at a time. But it's not as simple as covering up one set of numbers in favor of another. If you have your own DOT numbers and operating authority, you cannot simply run under someone else's authority without being actually leased onto them, even if that lease is a 24 hour lease. And you must have a copy of the lease in the vehicle with you. Your own authority cannot be temporarily suspended, either. It can only be voluntarily revoked, and then reinstated after paying the $80 fee, all of which can take weeks.
So even if you cover your own authority on the doors and put a magnetic sign up, you're still actually running under your own authority, and you're failing to properly mark the vehicle as such, which is a violation of not only the marking regulations, but will also affect the MCS-150 Motor Carrier Identification Report that identifies the vehicles operating under its authority.
Far as I know, the only time you can run under someone else's authority is when they have a different operating authority than you do. For example, you have OP-1(P) Authority (Motor Passenger Carrier Authority) and you want to load up the bus passenger seats with freight and take it across state lines, you could run under their OP-1 Authority (Motor Property Carrier and Broker Authority). You could then cover up your DOT numbers and put a magnetic sign in there, but I'm pretty sure you'd still have to have a written lease agreement with the carrier, as they'd have to ID your vehicle in their MCS-150 report.
I'm sure there are insurance and other considerations, as well. I'm not sure, though, why anyone with their own authority would want to run under someone else's authority, since you either have the authority to haul interstate freight, or you don't, it's either your or theirs, and if you have yours, you're authorized, so you don't need theirs. And since the same authority that lets you run interstate also gives you broker authority, you don't need theirs to run the freight and get paid for it. And if you have someone else's DOT number on there, you're theirs, by lease, so there's that, too. Seems simple enough that if you have your own authority, you just accept the loads from wherever you can get 'em and be done with it.
More than anything it's about displaying more than one set of numbers at a time. But it's not as simple as covering up one set of numbers in favor of another. If you have your own DOT numbers and operating authority, you cannot simply run under someone else's authority without being actually leased onto them, even if that lease is a 24 hour lease. And you must have a copy of the lease in the vehicle with you. Your own authority cannot be temporarily suspended, either. It can only be voluntarily revoked, and then reinstated after paying the $80 fee, all of which can take weeks.
So even if you cover your own authority on the doors and put a magnetic sign up, you're still actually running under your own authority, and you're failing to properly mark the vehicle as such, which is a violation of not only the marking regulations, but will also affect the MCS-150 Motor Carrier Identification Report that identifies the vehicles operating under its authority.
Far as I know, the only time you can run under someone else's authority is when they have a different operating authority than you do. For example, you have OP-1(P) Authority (Motor Passenger Carrier Authority) and you want to load up the bus passenger seats with freight and take it across state lines, you could run under their OP-1 Authority (Motor Property Carrier and Broker Authority). You could then cover up your DOT numbers and put a magnetic sign in there, but I'm pretty sure you'd still have to have a written lease agreement with the carrier, as they'd have to ID your vehicle in their MCS-150 report.
I'm sure there are insurance and other considerations, as well. I'm not sure, though, why anyone with their own authority would want to run under someone else's authority, since you either have the authority to haul interstate freight, or you don't, it's either your or theirs, and if you have yours, you're authorized, so you don't need theirs. And since the same authority that lets you run interstate also gives you broker authority, you don't need theirs to run the freight and get paid for it. And if you have someone else's DOT number on there, you're theirs, by lease, so there's that, too. Seems simple enough that if you have your own authority, you just accept the loads from wherever you can get 'em and be done with it.
If you are running a van and leased to a carrier your insurance bill probably will not go up when you get your own authority. Most carriers have you over insured to help cover there rears also. I run an older van, have $50,000 cargo insurance and my monthly insurance bill is under $200. As far as signage and numbers go vehicles 10,000# and under are not required to display any markings at all. One thing to keep in mind is that when leased to a carrier they provide you a safety net, when something goes wrong they will be there to bail you out. When you get your own authority and become a carrier yourself and something happens, your on your own.
The insurance is with progessive commercial,thru transportation insurance agency.yes my limits are higher mill,mill,100k cargo.Fed-ex requires the extra mill liability.They quoted me 550.00 per van valued at 14k each and the o/o would still need there bobtail/non trucking insurance at 100.00 month.Does that sound right to you Charles?Every driver I added would need to be fully screened by them before they could even drive.Also I have no accidents or any other issues with my license and Im over 30.I feel like Im getting raped?
No problem,Im just blowing off steam
The OOs probably are doing loads for more than one carrier, however, theloads are contracted to the carriers the OOs are leased on to, with the carrier taking the responsibility, liability risks and insurance coverage (normally).
I don't believe it's possible to have an insurer cover multiple carriers with multiple authorities under one policy, or at the same time. It's possible to be independent under your own authority, and contract to carry loads from other carriers. But no free beeps with that option.
If you're running under any given carrier, everything you do is documented under their name, reputation, safety rating, insurance rates, etc. If you were to go and book your own stuff, it would still be under *their* authority, yet they would have no control over anything you're doing. I think it's a great deal that Panther allows OOs to negotiate some of their own loads, but all done through Panther, and for only 15% of the gross. Maybe I don't fully understand that deal, but it sure sounds like an excellent one to me.
If you were to be signed on with CarrierX, and just go around booking your own stuff (under their authorities), you would actually be competing against your own carrier, thereby bringing prices down for your own fellow contractors at CarrierX. Your carrier is probably bidding the same load, however you as an OO might not get it, because there might be 100 trucks ahead of you for that one (ya, I'm exaggerating). If an OO doesn't like having to share the wealth, they're free to leave, and operate under their own authority.
I guess it could be likened to, say, a car dealership, where they have 50 salespeople on commission, and they take turns in who gets to serve the next walk-in. You betcha the dealership has control over the salesperson while he's representing the dealership, and the salesperson is welcome to leave and start his own dealership if he doesn't like sharing.
It's really really tough, and a lot of work, which is why most are content to share and wait for that beep. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. Or, should I say.. golden goose.
And isn't that the very premise of free enterprise/capitalism that you are all about? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Seems y'all have some conflicting principles.
No answer for that one! Perhaps if we all worked our tails off like many of the foreigners do, for peanuts, we'll make it through to better times.
and PS Twizted1, my comments aren't aimed specifically at *you*, just general, so don't get your socks knotted.
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
i have a 2008 the doors are mostly composite material so magnets don't work well
Twisted, seems yer rates fer a cv ARE a bit high. My last rates for straights with like coverage wuz $415. Agency may be taking a bit more than their fair share.
If any of you would like a contact for a good agent. PM me.
The simple thing to do, regarding the signage issue, is, make a BOL for the freight showing your company (ABC trucking) as carrier, then jes git r done.
Authority in itself does not give you "brokering" authority. That is a seperate issue.
Pjjj, it is not "golden goose", it is already "roasted Goose" as in one already hunted, cleaned, cooked, an on da table, ready for someones tater hole.
If any of you would like a contact for a good agent. PM me.
The simple thing to do, regarding the signage issue, is, make a BOL for the freight showing your company (ABC trucking) as carrier, then jes git r done.
Authority in itself does not give you "brokering" authority. That is a seperate issue.
Pjjj, it is not "golden goose", it is already "roasted Goose" as in one already hunted, cleaned, cooked, an on da table, ready for someones tater hole.
This is also for NON-Hazmat,contract carrier,interstate,1k deductable and no broker authority.I was quoted almost doulble for haz coverage depending on what I would haul and quantities.The same goes for broker authority,the col is correct,Its individual from your regular authoritys along with the higher costs.I believe its a separate dot # also.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I approached the big guy at my last carrier to see if running double authority (his and mine) was ok with him. He said why waste the money on double insurance? Just go it alone.
Ah yes, the exact term escaped me last night.. someone to feed it to the tater hole would be nice too
Twizted .. just wondering (since your rates ARE high).. do you have 3 years verifiable commercial driving experience on file with your insurer?
Yes,When I filled out the application I stated that I was in the buisness since jan 06.The first quote was somewhere around 320.00 ish and then progressive came back said no bcos Im a new company and that "I had more liability bcos Im over the road"?Really makes me wonder why such a difference in prices and if you can insure a straight truck for the same price?I think Im getting the shaft over here.I called another company Brands insurance and they said close to the same thing.Anybody else care to share there premiums?I could atleast have something to go off of.
DougTravels
Not a Member
My insurance cost is 166.00 per month. I listed the truck value at 30k It is a straight truck under 26K GVW (Chevy6500). I go through Brown and Brown and they contract through transportation Insurers
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timothy_flood
Seasoned Expediter
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you have your own authority. why would you need your carriers insurance if yours covers the same coverage protection?