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ON and QC speed limiter

layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am leaning towards NOT limiting my truck to meet these laws. I feel that they are dangerous. Having said that I would still like more information. I know that it is a computer thing now. How much to do it and fix it back? Is there a "computer tool" to do it yourself? If so, how much and how hard is it to use? Is there a potential for computer problems if you continue to switch it back and forth? Layoutshooter
 
redytrk

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I am told this parameter can only be accessed and changed by qualified tech`s. Cost is about $100.00.

Bye Bye Canada.
 
Doggie Daddy

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
Ihave heard there is software being sold by vendors (and not the manufacturers) to be able to change the speed limits yourself.

I don't think that I would put my warranty at risk by accessing the ECM and making changes,so it's bye bye ON and QC.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
My truck is no longer under warrenty so that is not an issue. I will not pay $100 per shot. I don't like the law in general, losing that much of my engine could make getting out of trouble difficult if not impossible in certain situations. Some stats I have seen place a figure of 20% of the time you are avoiding an accident you are accellerating vs braking. If correct that is putting a lot of people in a lot of danger. I thought I had heard it could be a "self adjust" and was looking for more info. No matter what I find I still lean towards no runs to those areas. I just wonder what the carriers are going to say about it. Layoutshooter
 
piper1

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
You can buy units for under a $1000 that will allow you to change the setting and do most of what the dealers do, you will get to see what they see and change whatever they can change (except HP), which in my opinion is worth it. Would be nice to know what the problem is before they tell you a $tory.
These units are not hard to use.

You could change it back and forth 15 times a day for the next 10 years....other than being a very boring activity it won't harm the ECM at all.

Also, the law is in the "education" phase right now (no tickets) and I'm sure by July 1 there will be a cheaper way to do this.

Any dealer that wants a $100 bucks to change the setting is ripping you off. The hardest ones to change are CAT's and that only takes 5 minutes, a Detroit can be done in 3.

I've realized I keep yapping about doing it yourself, I am going to get together a list of what is available to do this with and what the tool will cost. Give me a few days to do the homework......
 
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layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Thanks Piper1, I am sure that many in here would be interested in what you find. I know I will. I need all this info to make an informed decision. I still have a problem with the safety factor. I can't wait to hear what carriers are going to say. Are they still going to require the ability to go to Canada? It will be interesting. Layoutshooter
 
PalletJack

PalletJack

Expert Expediter
All this talk about temp speed limiters is fruitless. The Canada law is specifc.

Trucks operating in Ontario must have the speed electronically limited to 105 km/h

Trucks cannot have devices in truck to modify the speed limit set in ecm. save your 1000$

Any history in your ecm that shows you going more than 105 kmh = a ticket and fine of 250 to 20,000 cdn dollars

If you get a warning before July 1st, a ticket after that date might be extra costly if you did not heed the warning
 
highway star

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
What the law refers to is something like a switch on the dash to set a limiter. As I understand it, what Piper is referring to would be legal. There is no device, that I've ever heard of, that can permanently set a speed limiter, never to be changed again.

As for me, I've got about 2 weeks left that I can go in for my FAST card interview. I'm currently with a carrier that doesn't do Canada, but I was going to get the card just to have it if I needed it in the future. But, the speed thing makes me want to say the heck with it.

Please don't yell at me Piper, I know you're a bit passionate about this issue.
 
PalletJack

PalletJack

Expert Expediter
1. Part VI of the Highway Traffic Act is amended by adding the following section:

Speed-limiting systems
Required use by commercial motor vehicles

68.1 (1) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations.


(2) Except as authorized by the regulations, no person shall,


(a) deactivate, or permit a person to deactivate, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system; or

(b) modify, or permit a person to modify, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system such that it ceases to function in accordance with the regulations.

Tampering device prohibited

(3) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway if the vehicle is equipped with, has attached to it or carries,

(a) a prescribed device or prescribed equipment; or

(b) another device or equipment that is designed to disguise the fact that the vehicle is not equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations.
 
RLENT

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Hey there Pallet ....

Can ya point us to a link to the actual legislative language (like on an Ontario or Quebec government website) that backs up what you are saying (quoted) below ?

PalletJack said:
Any history in your ecm that shows you going more than 105 kmh = a ticket and fine of 250 to 20,000 cdn dollars
Click to expand...

Or are ya jus' talkin' ..... ?
 
piper1

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
PalletJack said:
All this talk about temp speed limiters is fruitless. The Canada law is specifc.
Click to expand...

The only law published and passed so far is Ontario.

[/quote]Trucks operating in Ontario must have the speed electronically limited to 105 km/h

Trucks cannot have devices in truck to modify the speed limit set in ecm. save your 1000$[/quote]

If you have a scan tool in your truck they are going to need a reason to look for it, like if you set it at 105 after the cop pulls you over for doing 115. If you set the speed before you get to ON and then wrap the tool up and throw it under the bunk, Nobody will know the difference, if they check you out, you'll be compliant because you are set at 105.

[/quote]Any history in your ecm that shows you going more than 105 kmh = a ticket and fine of 250 to 20,000 cdn dollars[/quote]

I'm sorry but that's just WRONG! You have the legal right to exceed 105 in a whole lot of other places, for the Ontario scale guys to get into your ECM far enough to actually establish a time stamp on the max speed is just not going to happen. Also, 90% of ECM's leave the factory with a silly reading already in them (CAT's all say 127 mph). Unless your truck has been set up to log overspeeds and has had that value set at 105, your ECM isn't even going to record that stuff.

The "device" provision in the law is to fine the guys who have a device in the truck that they use to tamper or program the speed above 105 while they are in Ontario ie the little truckstop gizmo that plugs into your lighter etc. If you get caught going 115 or more they are going to pull you over and get the "tech guys" to scour your truck for a "device". In other words you gotta be doing something to attract attention to yourself, 115 km or 72 ish MPH is "an attention getter". (Kudos to Sherrif Buford T Justice!)

[/quote]If you get a warning before July 1st, a ticket after that date might be extra costly if you did not heed the warning[/quote]

Sure will, just like if you get a warning for anything else and then be stupid and do it again.

Highwaystar, no yelling. I'll just have to put on my list of people I want to meet when I'm south of the fence!!:)
 
piper1

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
PalletJack said:
1. Part VI of the Highway Traffic Act is amended by adding the following section:

Speed-limiting systems
Required use by commercial motor vehicles

68.1 (1) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations.


(2) Except as authorized by the regulations, no person shall,


(a) deactivate, or permit a person to deactivate, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system; or

(b) modify, or permit a person to modify, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system such that it ceases to function in accordance with the regulations.

Tampering device prohibited

(3) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway if the vehicle is equipped with, has attached to it or carries,

(a) a prescribed device or prescribed equipment; or

(b) another device or equipment that is designed to disguise the fact that the vehicle is not equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations.
Click to expand...

And all of that applies when you are IN Ontario Only!

BTW, there have no "prescribed" devices set forth into law yet. The gizmo's are covered by clause B for disguising or defeating.

I'm talking about a way to be compliant and then run however you want when you leave Ontario. I am NOT condoning or advocating breaking the law IN Ontario.
 
highway star

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
They can't ticket for what you "might" have been doing. If they plug in and you're set in compliance, you'd have to be good. Any of us "might" do a lot of things...
 
piper1

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
PalletJack said:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-files/39_Parliament/Session1/b041ra.pdf

consider this. some ecm contain history. If you run 113 km/h legally in Michigan and the OPP sees 113km in their scanner, they just might consider you sped in ON and give a ticket. Good luck explaining. That'll be $250 cdn please. Your run profit should cover that.
Click to expand...

If the "113 event" has no time stamp on it, he can't prove you did it in Ontario either. No ticket. When you cross the border, your lic plate and crossing time are logged in a Gov't database (I think Homeland security runs it) and the MTO, and OPP have instant access to it (they use it all the time to catch guys with false logs). So if the 113 event does have a time stamp on it, he knows when you were in Michigan and when you were in Ontario.


That said, I am throwing in the towel on this issue. I have explained over and over again what the law does and does not do. I do not say things on here lightly, I know the law, I am still connected to the industry very well (my old job was to understand this from a fleet perspective) and all I am trying to do is let people know they don't have to wipe Ontario loads off their money making radar, the economy is too lousy for folks to ignore a good paying load. But it seems the "F them" or just plain misinformation and CB talk is what folks want to believe. Go ahead, stay home. More loads for me maybe.

I will post when I have the scan tool research done and anyone who wants it I will send them a PM with the info. I am done publicly talking about this.
 
termite289

termite289

Expert Expediter
Ok, this is real simple, dear ontario and quebec you are not my only customer. and all the other customers want their freight on time. so im sorry to say that your freight will either be sitting at a warehouse in buffalo, or detroit, or on the shippers dock. was nice while it lasted, and i love canadian bacon.
yall have allowed cars to drive like maniacs, and picked on trucks one time to many. i don't mean to be offensive but i am NOT turning my truck down. and if the states do this as well, i will go home.
 
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