More BS about Fatigued Drivers
- Thread starter gjmcclain
- Start date
Yesteryear
Expert Expediter
Yeah Wellarmed! Me thinks you need a nap! 
How often has this law been used and is this law being abused by officers?
There are many laws on the books that are just dust catchers.
I am not saying I agree with the law I am just wondering if this another law that OOIDA has blown out of proportion?
There are many laws on the books that are just dust catchers.
I am not saying I agree with the law I am just wondering if this another law that OOIDA has blown out of proportion?
This one MAY be for real. There are more and more drivers being taken off for 10 hours based on these check lists. There is a lot of talk out there on this from sources other than OOIDA. I even heard mention of it on a lawyer call in show NOT connected to trucking. They were discussing whether or not these checklist are Constitutional and if not, what will happen to the agencies that use them to put drivers out of service. Much of the so-called evidence is antidotal and therefor is suspect. Both MN and IN DOT officials have stated that they are using these check lists. It is the numbers of drivers affected that is suspect. It needs to be watched. IF and I say IF they are using this as OOIDA and others claim they are then it must be delt with in the courts based on Constitutional grounds. Layoutshooter
greg334
Veteran Expediter
To me there is an issue of medical privacy rights, you don't relinquish them because you are a trucker, the DOT has not yet written guidelines on sleep disorders and the states have yet to address the issues within their policy making bodies. Until that time, this is a form of profiling and extortion.
If I am asked for my long form, I question whether or not the officer has the right to see it, let alone interpret it. The short form from all I am told is the only thing that they need to see. He is a law enforcement officer, not a medical doctor and can not make medical judgement calls on who needs X amount of hours of sleep and who doesn't.
The issue of safety is not the force pushing this, but it may come down to a cash cow for doctors who left GP and moved into a specialized field. The hard push form the "experts" who are putting together the guidelines for the DOT seems not to be obvious to many in this profession but if one is to dig deep into their connections, it may be just like the Pharma companies helping the government write Medicare part D.
If I am asked for my long form, I question whether or not the officer has the right to see it, let alone interpret it. The short form from all I am told is the only thing that they need to see. He is a law enforcement officer, not a medical doctor and can not make medical judgement calls on who needs X amount of hours of sleep and who doesn't.
The issue of safety is not the force pushing this, but it may come down to a cash cow for doctors who left GP and moved into a specialized field. The hard push form the "experts" who are putting together the guidelines for the DOT seems not to be obvious to many in this profession but if one is to dig deep into their connections, it may be just like the Pharma companies helping the government write Medicare part D.
At the risk of sounding stupid, which has never bothered me before, are we even required to carry the long form with us? Layoutshooter
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I did a search, and the threads I read at other forums indicate that you have to have either the card or the long form, but not both. One driver said he was asked by Maryland DOT to produce his long form. However, according to JJKeller, the longform is confidential, and you do not have to produce it to possible employers. IMO, being asked to produce it for a DOT inspection is putting yourself into a possible discrimination situation... especially for this 'fatigue driver survey'.
Here's the JJKeller link for those interested:
Recordkeeping do’s and don’ts of DOT medical examination forms- IOTW2115 - J. J. Keller & Associates, Inc.
Here's the JJKeller link for those interested:
Recordkeeping do’s and don’ts of DOT medical examination forms- IOTW2115 - J. J. Keller & Associates, Inc.
Thanks, I did not think you needed it with you but I was not sure. Mine is locked up in my safe at the house. We are now in the process of looking for a small tape (not digital) recorder to use IF we are ever "asked" to do one of these surveys. I want tape because I think digital is far easier to alter than tape is. They are just getting very hard to find. Layoutshooter
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
so you digitally alter it and put it back on tape .whats the differance if somebodyis going to tinker like that digital or analog will make little differance
You are most likely right, I just remember reading somewhere that the digital recorders are not as accepted in courts as tape. Much like our accident cameras use film rather than digital. Layoutshooter
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well the point is that the survey is the long form, answering medical questions is the same as presenting the long form to the officer. I know that many are not getting what I'm saying, but if I am asked about my sleep habits or my prescriptions, then it is an inquiry of my medical condition which is beyond the short form.
As for a recorder, digital is just as good as tape, to be exact the reason we have film cameras are because of cost (hint what carrier hands digital cameras to truck drivers?), knowing this first hand, a good digital image (recording) with some time stamps is the same as film and holds up in court.
As for a recorder, digital is just as good as tape, to be exact the reason we have film cameras are because of cost (hint what carrier hands digital cameras to truck drivers?), knowing this first hand, a good digital image (recording) with some time stamps is the same as film and holds up in court.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
You can when you are in court but.....
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
What do you think Miranda is?
Obviously you didn't read the thread about this.
http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...rum/36126-video-worth-its-weight-silence.html
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Don't make it sound like "I plead the 5th". Just say "I'd rather not speak to you, officer; because you are trained in the art of deception and coersion; and I am not ready to say something you might construe as an admittance of guilt. In other words, I don't play tongue hockey with the devil."
They are NOT looking out for your best interests. Anyone who's looking at me to find faults, and expects me to show them, can kiss my butt. I'm not saying a word!
Actually, I would tell the cop that I saw a video where a law professor and a police officer said to never talk to cops. That should raise his eyebrows.
They are NOT looking out for your best interests. Anyone who's looking at me to find faults, and expects me to show them, can kiss my butt. I'm not saying a word!
Actually, I would tell the cop that I saw a video where a law professor and a police officer said to never talk to cops. That should raise his eyebrows.
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Just refuse to answer the survey but be sure you are recording the conversation and be sure you inform the officer that you are recording the conversation for legal purposes. Get his/her name and badge number on tape. Layoutshooter