I've been warning about this
- Thread starter AMonger
- Start date
I don't remember any homosexuals in high school, except for one of my favorite teachers. He did not keep it secret but did not flaunt it either. He did his job in an exceptional manner and was a well respected teacher. Many sought him out for advice for things other than the history he taught. He taught us to think as well. He taught us to respect others, even hoods and nerds.
Maverick
Seasoned Expediter
Some have a picture of this poster being angry, gloomy, even enraged at times. Let's paint the proper picture and state clearly the real demeanor when coming on this forum........think Joe Fox to Kathleen Kelly? Matter of fact, when I'm home and the wife enters the man cave to witness typing amidst laughter, she says this "are you on that trucking forum again?"
The point? There is nothing bunched up here.
The true Christian does not hate or ridicule gays. We do not look down on them for who they are at present, but merely hope they come to know "the practice" is not condoned or encouraged. Now, for someone to claim the following of Christian doctrine, all the while practicing what God calls an abomination......quite a different matter. And the biggest bullies I knew in school were from non-Christian homes and I actually disliked them more than I would any gay person. So, do you believe the bashing of homosexuals comes from only ignorant people of the Bible? Or is it possible.....it comes from many other sources outside of your victory dance? Just askin.
Well.....it took a whole day to get there but at least we see the actual reason for your responses. As I said initially, your argument was never about "equal rights".
At least that's honest, and pretty much kills all the other arguments you've ever made. The truth has set you free!
You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but it's hardly a stretch of the imagination, it's observable reality. You can't see it objectively because you're a part of it and don't want to. I understand that.
That's not only unlikely, but incorrect. I fully understand the differences. I also fully understand that, even within Christianity itself, there are those who think, "MY Christianity is better than YOUR Christianity," and it's resulted in about nine thousand different flavors of Christianity who somehow all use the same playbook.
Yes, that covers most Christians, actually.
Interesting conclusion. Wrong, but interesting. Just because I disagree with something hardly means I know nothing about it. Not only have I studied it at length all my life, and was raised deeply steeped in it, but I come from a large extended family of chiefly preachers and pastors of many flavors of Christianity spanning the full range from the Church of the Sheeple to your flavor of Christianity, and over the years there have been many in-depth, mostly civil, family group discussions regarding those spiritual discernments of which you claim I know nothing about.
Some have a picture of this poster being angry, gloomy, even enraged at times. Let's paint the proper picture and state clearly the real demeanor when coming on this forum........think Joe Fox to Kathleen Kelly? Matter of fact, when I'm home and the wife enters the man cave to witness typing amidst laughter, she says this "are you on that trucking forum again?"
The point? There is nothing bunched up here.
You assume the "bible thumping hypocrites" reference was directed at you, specifically? Interesting - it isn't what I thought.
The true Christian does not hate or ridicule gays.
So we should consider that those who call gays 'perverts' are not 'true' Christians? And the priests & pastors who molest children, they aren't 'true' Christians either? What about those people who want gays excluded from their church & Boy Scout troop - are they 'true' Christians?
It looks like the number of actual true Christians is pretty small, so why should their religious beliefs prevail?
We do not look down on them for who they are at present, but merely hope they come to know "the practice" is not condoned or encouraged.
None of the gay people I know or know of are stupid - I'm positive they know that, and they know exactly which people don't condone it. And why.
In too many instances, [especially young people], the knowledge leads them to commit suicide.
Now, for someone to claim the following of Christian doctrine, all the while practicing what God calls an abomination......quite a different matter.
I'm not qualified to argue theology, but it seems to me that a God who instills a capacity for attraction to and genuine love [including the same physical expression that heteros enjoy] in some people, can hardly fault them for acting upon it. Unlike other forbidden behaviors [such as killing, robbing, assault], it harms no one, while the prohibition against their own pursuit of happiness harms the individuals involved. As pointed out in another post, the 'state' has a clear interest in promoting stable family relationships, and if some of those relationships involve committed same sex partners, they should be welcomed. Our society needs all the strong partnerships and parents we can get, whatever forms & colors they take.
And the biggest bullies I knew in school were from non-Christian homes and I actually disliked them more than I would any gay person. So, do you believe the bashing of homosexuals comes from only ignorant people of the Bible? Or is it possible.....it comes from many other sources outside of your victory dance? Just askin.
No matter what kind of home one comes from, the current practice of gay bashing ultimately derives from just one source: religion.
You are welcome to your religious beliefs, but you cannot insist that everyone else follow them as well.
Maverick
Seasoned Expediter
Sorry, not a part of it as explained. Somehow I think you missed it.
No, there is only one, and those who have created the other 8,999.
Spiritual discernment is not something to understand, it's something either you have, or don't have.
I'm not one who is constantly bamboozeled by those who go to war under cover of religion. Leaders have been doing this for years and it works most every time. Using your premise of Christian backed wars.....can you provide an instance whereby a great preacher has led his troops into battle? Spurgeon? Whitfield, or even a modern day true Christian?
This country did not go to war due to all the immigrants who were sick of it from Europe and many migrated here for freedom to worship following the Reformation. How did these leaders get around that? You make the people believe they're under attack, ridicule the dissenters by challenging their lack of patriotism, and get foolish God fearing people to believe your actually trying to free some country from an oppressor.
This Christian is not fooled by any of it.
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Maverick
Seasoned Expediter
Again, you must not be reading my posts. I'm the one person here who is NOT bashing anyone, nor do I force my views on anyone. Your so used to religious bigots that you can't spot someone who is not?
At what point did THIS poster try to force a belief on anyone here? I've merely tried to point out what a true Christian believes, while pointing out the bigots who are not being true to God's word.
You can hate Christians all you want, it's your right. But don't expect me to hate you, or anyone else back, because I don't. I may take offense to being called a liar (which indicates willful intent) but you can throw about any other stone my way.....if it makes you feel better.
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Yes. It's a very small, very select group. It's so small that they've been told not to even bring their baseball glove because there won't be enough there to field two teams.
I disagree, but it also depends on what you mean by that. The current practice of gay bashing can be traced directly to the obnoxious, in-you-face, "ACCEPT ME EMBRACE ME DAMMIT!" tactic of preaching of tolerance, because gays are bashed by religious and non-religious folks alike. Even people who have great tolerance and empathy for gays get their nerves worn a little thin with ambivalence. Like I've said in the past, you don't ever have to have heard of religion or read the Bible to know that homosexuality is wrong, and even those who would easily tolerate it (like me) get a little tired of the ubiquitousness of it all.
Everywhere you look, on TV, movies, in the press, it's an over-the-top "Gay is Great!" message, intentionally done in order to foster familiarity and comfort, because the things you are familiar with and comfortable with you are more likely to be accepting and unafraid of. But that's not what's happening at all. There is a backlash, and it'll get really bad at some point where enough is enough. The pendulum always swings the other way. It's no coincidence that the increase in gay suicide is in perfect lock-step correlation with the increase in gay rights advocacy, and the more assertive the advocacy, the higher the suicide rate, because of that backlash.
Did you know the Disney Channel now has a show that features a "nuclear family" of two lesbians and their kid?
No, I got that. I understand it complete. And the other 8,999 say the same, exact thing.
In that case, you'll have to give me you own special definition of discernment, because you're using it a manner I'm completely unfamiliar with. My understanding (or discerned comprehension, if you will) of the term is to have an accuteness of judgement and understanding of distinct differences between things. I am assuming that by you telling me that I have no spiritual discernment that I do not, in fact, understand any of the differences between your One True Religion and all of the others. If that's the case, you are incorrect.
Good for you!
That's quite a loaded question. Before I could answer it, we'd have to agree on the definition of "great preacher" and of "true Christian," both of which we are unlikely to do.
And I'm glad for it.
"Accept me" and "embrace me" are not synonymous. There are many, many things we can accept without embracing, and homosexuality is one of them. I don't believe it's "wrong", it just is. It harms no one, and therefore, I have no problem with it.
I don't see the over the top "Gay is great" message, but then, I avoid tv, so maybe that's why. If it is out there, perhaps it's a form of that very backlash you mention: gays have just had enough of being denigrated for what they cannot help being. Do they not have the right to pursue their own happiness? Does that conflict with anyone else's rights? I'd say yes, and no.
It's hard to determine the gay suicide issue, because it wasn't common for them to be 'out' in earlier decades - they may have committed suicide at similiar rates, but not been known to harbor homosexual desires.
Maybe you see the gay issue as being prominent because it annoys you, much like those Christian billboards annoy the h#ll out of me, lol: they're everywhere.
I don't see the over the top "Gay is great" message, but then, I avoid tv, so maybe that's why. If it is out there, perhaps it's a form of that very backlash you mention: gays have just had enough of being denigrated for what they cannot help being. Do they not have the right to pursue their own happiness? Does that conflict with anyone else's rights? I'd say yes, and no.
It's hard to determine the gay suicide issue, because it wasn't common for them to be 'out' in earlier decades - they may have committed suicide at similiar rates, but not been known to harbor homosexual desires.
Maybe you see the gay issue as being prominent because it annoys you, much like those Christian billboards annoy the h#ll out of me, lol: they're everywhere.
Tell that to the gays. They make no discernment, to coin a phrase, between the two. Anything less than fully accepting and embracing homosexuality as being normal is unacceptable to them. "Accept me for what I am and embrace me as normal," is the agenda.
Chicken-egg. It's the prominence and pervasiveness of it that annoys me.
Your tithing dollars hard at work, mostly spreading the message of fear.
I do like this one, though. Caused quite the stir in New Zealand when St Matthew-in-the-City Church in Auckland, uhm, erected it.
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Please stop with the 'hate' characterization - it's a long way from dislike, distrust, disagreement, etc, to hate. It's just a current buzzword that loses authenticity from overuse. I don't hate Christians, period.
Nor did I call you a liar - it's perfectly possible for people to see things differently while being truthful, is it not?
I'm happy to debate with you, long as you leave the theology and Bible references out of it. I know little of the former, and believe in none of the latter.
Maverick
Seasoned Expediter
Your right Cherri....it was not you who called me a liar, and I can see where the post wording might leave one to believe it was directed your way. It was not.
Yes, words do get a little worn out around here, and I used hate, when dislike may have been a better choice of words. Have a great day, be safe out there, and thanks for the response.
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I don't dislike Christians, either. What I dislike is the presumption that their beliefs predominate [or should], because I disagree on both counts. I'd say the same about Jews, Muslims, or any religion that presumed the same, but it's only the Christians who are doing it.
When people object, they're accused of "bashing" or hating, rather than being heard.
And the rise of the 'religious right' in political power is a huge reason the Republicans can't even tread water, much less make headway. Most people don't agree with their agenda, but the candidates who don't agree don't get the financial support needed to run, much less win office. The religious extremists are strangling their own [political] party, and they don't seem to care, either.
When people object, they're accused of "bashing" or hating, rather than being heard.
And the rise of the 'religious right' in political power is a huge reason the Republicans can't even tread water, much less make headway. Most people don't agree with their agenda, but the candidates who don't agree don't get the financial support needed to run, much less win office. The religious extremists are strangling their own [political] party, and they don't seem to care, either.
"I'd say the same about Jews, Muslims, or any religion that presumed the same, but it's only the Christians who are doing it."
You are right. Muslims today are just blowing up anyone they can to force their ideas on us. Christians in the US are just spouting off for the most part. That is FAR worse than blowing up marathons.
You are right. Muslims today are just blowing up anyone they can to force their ideas on us. Christians in the US are just spouting off for the most part. That is FAR worse than blowing up marathons.