I only hang with Sheepdogs...

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I will guarantee he can because I have no big brother, only a little brother who died of respiratory complications 2 days after he was born. I'm glad you've lived a safe life so far and I hope your record isn't broken during the remainder of it. Your examples are all of irresponsible gun owners not responsible ones. Had you ever hosted me in your home you'd have had guns on the property and never known the difference, unless you have a better trained eye than many law enforcement officers or someone attempted something illegal while I was there.

I'm sure the felon who breaks in would be just as deterred by your whistle as by my pistol. I'm sure he/they would be willing to wait the half hour or more it may take for 911 to respond. I'm just silly for being trained and equipped and capable of protecting my home and family. I should relinquish my responsibility to my home and family to others and depend on them to take care of it/us. Then I could be one of the majority, a sheep.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
TallCall, I know you're not going to change your mind, but I'd like to point out one error in your argument: responsible parents, be they gun owners or not, know that you cannot hide anything from children - especially if you're in the habit of leaving them unsupervised. The children who "find" guns, are being raised by criminally stupid parents - but parenting doesn't need a license, any idiot can do it. "Parent control" would benefit society a whole lot more than gun control, IMO.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Tallcal should know what really the truth is if he actually spent time in Africa, I did and saw what can happen to a disarmed population. But I will get to that later.

The article is a good one, it illustrates one important thing – we must be told in rather nice terms (wolves, Sheepdogs and sheep) about the real world.

What I find troublesome is the attitude of others with firearms. Maybe I am closed minded and have been exposed to too much in my life to side with people who seem to live in a world that they think that laws will protect you, they don’t.

I grew up with firearms; my entire family (extended) grew up with firearms. My cousins grew up with a loaded shotgun propped up in the corner of the kitchen and other relatives had rifles and handguns available to everyone. The funny thing is that not one of us every even considered that firearm as an item to use in an argument and no one has ever been shot accidentally throughout the many years.

Why is this issue a problem since the late 1960s?

How can we as a society from the turn of the century to the late 1950s could be so inept to allow unfettered access to firearms, in some cases explosives and automatic weapons to everyone?

Wouldn’t you think that with the accessible firearms during the first 60 years of the century that we would have so much crime and bloodshed in the streets that we would cease to exist as a country quickly with the anarchy going on?

See I already know the answer to this but a lot of people don’t and many believe that only the ‘protectors’ should only be armed. Those who choose to say that we need more gun control laws, less accessible firearms and a lot of other c**p have never seen what an unarm population can face.

What I find intriguing is the mind set that firearms and poverty are the root causes of crime. If this was true, going back to the first 60 years of the 20th century, wouldn’t the depressions of 1907 and 1929 cause a lot of crime for those times? You would think so by these so called experts, but in reality those two events did not cause a huge crime increase (meaning killings and shootings) but the opposite occurred. Petty crime was up, but capital crimes went down.

Same with the 1950s, a time of bigots and racism throughout America. I didn’t read that there were mass killing taking place or school kids getting shot because they were a different color. Yea there were other things but even with the access to firearms, we didn’t have any thing like today.

I really think that the late 1960’s was the real pivotal time for us to lose some of our rights and have society change for the worst. I clearly saw at that time the irresponsibility being espoused by the ‘hippies’ and the failures that this would lead to. Many think that I am full of it but think about what happened to being responsible for ones actions or paying for a crime that you committed – that all went out the door as a result of this 60’s c**p.

I feel parents play a part but I strongly feel anyone who is a parent is to blame for the schools, not just a few parents. No one wants to change anything, they all complain about it because their kid is doing good and has decent ethics, many parents tolerate the schools and their actions to shape kids into the image they feel is right – forget the parents.

We have entered into a society that we are forced to accept things, HipHop culture, Gays, Goths (I just love these guys and sooooo glad my neighbor moved far far away and rather have had a gay couple next door), the ‘urban’ culture and a whole bunch more. We watch as our children are desensitized to the point that a real gun is a toy, not a weapon (I mean playing video games and watching TV) but are sensitized to others feelings and trained in what I call a precursor to the thought police. As a side note I was surprised that a friend’s kid went to an autopsy only to find out what real blood and guts were about – boy she was really sick for a week (the point is she thought it would be like on TV). I told her my experiences and she threw up – boy am I mean!

One of the things since Columbine is the over sensitivity to weapons (or what is deemed a weapon) by the school in school. What a crock of s**t some of this has turned out to be. A first grader taking a butter knife to school to spread jam on her lunch and having to be expelled and having to go through a tremendous amount of pain and suffering because of it. How d**n stupid! (That was an actual case by the way.) The administrators making rules and bad judgment calls with weapons but ignoring the real problems, like bad teachers etc..

As for columbine, we could never stop that – it was planned out and executed by two determined kids who for the better part never really had a life. Columbine was a product of the no one ever fails, no one should every feel left out, everyone is special, words and thoughts hurt others, let’s not tell the kids what the world is really about type of education in public schools today. A suggestion that Leo had about the teachers and parents will never work, it is not even close to a solution as is prosecuting a first grader for possession of a butter knife. I feel that with today’s teachers in general, they would have to analysis the situation, call the union to ask their opinion and than see if there is an administrator who will make a judgment call. Parents, no way will some of these parents pull the trigger on little Johnny or Janey just because they are spraying the cafeteria with an AK47. Venturing to guess many people will hesitate because this is a child, even though a child with a weapon who will kill you.

So I know I am boring all of you, so here is my final comment;

There is a real reason why our founding fathers decided to allow an armed population, just look around in the world today you geniuses who don’t think there is a need to arm a population. Look at the Balkans (not just recently but in the 1880 – 1913), the Armenians – Greeks - Assyrians, Rwanda, China (Japanese war). Even today the UN wants to disarm everyone, hell they are trying to figure out how to tax you and I as they see fit – bypassing our constitution. Ask yourslef this; why does the UN have an army? and would you want the UN to protect you when they can't do the job with NATO and the US military backing them?

I would like to know what the difference is between us and the Swiss? I mean that they have access to firearms, not just a rifle but an assault weapons. They seem not to be killing everyone.

Tallcal, please answer my question.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I know situations such as Columbine could be lessened if those teachers and parents who are properly licensed and trained were not prohibited from access to the means to do so. I know this because if it happened when I was there I would act to bring an end to it. I know many others who would do the same thing. Those specific two individuals at Columbine might not have been deterred from initiating their rampage but some would by the knowledge they could be killed before or immediately after their crime begins. If it happened when I wasn't on campus of course I couldn't act because I wouldn't be an immediate responder. In any event, possession and carry on campuses by the appropriate individuals definitely can and should reduce the severity of incidents such as Columbine.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Actually Leo,my older brother died 10 years ago.He was a big game(and small game)hunter,and was armed to the hilt.He lived to kill things, lived on a large ranch in Wyoming.Although I loved him,in his later years he became extremly parinoid(to much listing to Rush I used to tell him)and it spilled over into irrational rage against anything and everybody who did not agree with him.It was very sad,he died with a heart full of bigatry and hatred.He and all his gun buddies were a very sad and angry group.
As I said,I will stay unarmed and oblivious with my whistle.
You are welcomme in my home anytime,just leave the cannon in the truck.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
This forum is great,I really appreciate that we can discuss these important issue's,points of view,and heated topics.No more name calling,OK Leo?Today I could be a sheep,who knows what I might be if you really get mad.I have been fighting and defending my point(s)of view my entire life,and appreciate that we have the freedom to do it.
I also grew up in a home with guns(and alcohol).My Dad hunted,and my oldest brother hunted.I hunted for a brief time as well.I have another brother,older by a few years,who never hunted,but had a bad temper and liked to drink to much.He got into the guns on two occations as a young adult.Both times he was drunk,and both times could have led to a very sad ending,but by the grace of God did not.
I grew up with privilage,my Father had money,and I was never needing for anything.Palo Alto was a very comfortable city to grow up in,with Stanford University as a big play ground.My friends and I enjoyed motorcycles,hot rods and surfing on the weekends.And then came Viet Nam.After loosing too many good friends,and feeling they died for politicians,I became a life long pacifist.It's not an easy commitment in this society.It means I must defend myself with whistles,teach my children that violence begets violence(never spanked them,not even once).The have both taken the pacifist route in their lives as well(now 30 and 32 years old)Somehting about spare the rod and spoil the child,a bunch of C**p.Both my kids are very well educated,paid for their education(by choice)and are members of the scientific community.
My travels oversea's have been work related.I have looked down the business end on more then one semi and fully automatic Russian made weapon in Zimbabwe,as well Indonesia and Chile.I have been pulled off a plane while it was being fueled in Panama by Noriegas thugs.
Now,the interesting thing is, these were all puppet governments that the USA had armed and supported by CIA coups.When they would not act in accordance with our policy,then they became our enimies.Go figure?
So,yes,it is no shock that we live in the most violent society in the world.WE have been exporting violence for generations!It's no surprise that our people are brain washed to believe that the only safe society is a well armed society.No surprise at all.For me,I have walked in the most deparate slums in Buenos Aries,at night,and been invited into peoples dirt floor homes to eat dinner.I have never felt safer.But you can bet your a** I would not take a stroll down Broadway in Oakland after sunset.
I honestly feel that the brainwashed in our country are those poor souls who believe that they are"safer"by living in a parinoid reality that dictates that they need to be an army unto themselves.I will never be convinced that it's what James Madison,or Ben Franklin or any of the framers envisioned.Go spend some time oversea's,not in fancy Hotels,or with pathedic tour groups that "protect" you,but go on your own and get a new perspective.
The largest contributos to realistic gun control are police officers associations.Talk to a cop about what he thinks about when he ir she goes out a night to face bad guys.And then they have to deal with the likes of Mel Gibson,what a feaking joke that guy is!!
By the way,did you catch Hillary nail Donny Rumsfiled at the hearing yesterday?No that lady rocks!
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Tall,watch out Leo may show up for dinner driving a Hummer with a 50 caliber. LOL
Latest bumper sticker." Guns don't kill people,drivers using cell phone do."
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It's because I share TallCall's mistrust of the government's motives, sometimes, that I feel safer knowing they don't control all the legal weapons in America. And that is what I think the founders had in mind.Even without the many tyrants that have controlled entire countries since, (and, as mentioned, many with considerable assistance from our government), they knew that power isn't always benevolent, or just. "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom" - whether it's a tyrannical government, a sociopath, or a moron with higher caliber guns than his IQ, we must not forget that there are those who would deprive us of our freedom.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Tall: With all your world travels to what, 35 countries?? What did you do smell the flowers??? Or, just the #####??? There are some few hundred to go!! Or, is that too far, or too much, or, too many or, to whatever????
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Tall: Actually it was pee hole that was bleeped above.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I have to respect TallCal and Rex plus others who believe strongly in their views that Sheepdogs are the reason the world is in the mess it is today.
However one comment that I read somewhere has always stayed with me and it is a simple statement.

There is and always will be Evil in this world.
When good people do nothing about it, EVIL TRIUMPHS

There are evil people in this world that want to do us in. Why,because we have freedoms,we enjoy a decent quality of life,we can go to sleep at night without dreading our doors breaking down by a oppressive government. These evil people simply want to destroy our lifestyles and subjugate us to their opressive lifestyles,force us to believe in their religion live by their ideas and not allow anyone to disagree with their ideologies.

Tall mentioned that he will not walk the streets of Oakland Ca at night, and I don't blame him,but the streets of Palo Alto are OK.
Why,because the sheepdogs in Oakland keepthe evil out of Palo Alto by whatever means are necessary. If there were no California sheepdogs the California wolves would take over.
What would you have ,an armed police force protecting you or should we be sheep and lets try to understand each other. Evil cannot be negotiated period.. My 2cents.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
I set up moving services for companies moving expats in and out.
The range of companies is from mineral engeneering companies to Intel to Apple to Levi's to GM to Steam Ship Companies and International airlines.
However,I took lots of side trips,once treking to the only glacier in New Guinea,18,000 feet above the Irian Jaya rainforest.I camped out with the head hunters for 4 days.I still have my p****us gord which they gave me when I treked down.
It will all be in the book,should be finished next year.
Titled "From here to Timbuktu",(been there to).
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
With all due respect Rich,my office is in Oakland.I come here everyday(close to the Port)so I know this City very well.Been coming here for 20 years.
Many of my co-workers live here.Really,like most cities in America,it's only certain neighborhoods that I would not walk down.
East Palo Alto,just a stones throw from Palo Alto, was murder capitol of Amrica for a year going back 10 years or so.My point is,there are no safe cities in America.Unfortunantly,we are the most violent country in the world.Period.Canada(guns are restricted to hunting weapons)does not even compare with the US.Go from Detroit to Windsor,and it's like going to Mars.People leave their doors unlocked.
I have been around,and I am 100% convinced that the evil that lurks in our country is driven by greed and corruption and the knowledge that if you stick a gun in someone's face,you can have all the power you need.The Constitution enables it to happen,and the gun dealers hide behind it.They knowingly sell to criminals.It's so clear,I really don't get the argument,and never will.
It's why I feel safer in the slums of many of the countries I've been privilaged enough to travel too.When people are concerned with eating,they don't care about having the best sneakers,or bling or clothes or dope etc.And you know what,since they don't expect to have it,their lives maybe simple,but they laugh,cry,love their children and have higher standards of morality then many Americans I know.
 

hill_top

Expert Expediter
tallcal, I don't always respond to people's political views. So I was waiting for someone else to mention this. You said you were dumb-founded by our framers to grant the right to bear arms. I think you need a TRUE history lessen. The people were granted that right to defend themselves against the goverment, as well as (if not more so)out side forces. I know hundreds if not thousands of gun owners that have NEVER fired a gun at anyone at anytime. I know a lot of people that went to Vietnam, some came back, some didn't. To say that is the reason for becoming a pacifist is B.S. If everyone thought like you, we would no longer be the land of the free. Thanks to people like you we are losing the part that says "home of the brave". If I were so scared of guns that I kept a whistle by my bed instead, I could never look my wife in the face again. ( not to mention, if someone broke in that had a gun, I'd probably be so scared I'd choke on it instead of blowing it) But like my Dad always said "I may not always agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death of me your right to say it. Since you won't.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
>The Constitution
>enables it to happen,and the gun dealers hide behind it.They
>knowingly sell to criminals.

This is such deep you know what the bull is gone because he'd be in over his head. Having worked in the industry for several years I can assure you someone has fooled you because this is liberal claptrap and not fact. Are there a handful of bad apples out of the hundreds in the barrel? Yes, and so there are a few bad dealers who are quickly weeded out and prosecuted. They are an extremely small portion of one percent. I've dealt with ATF and worked through enforcement audits and proceedings. I've seen the system working. This statement is totally erroneous and has no basis in fact. It sounds like an extremely broad generality that one would expect from Jeanine Garofolo or Jesse Jackson.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Wrong again my friend.It's called sell the gun to a friend of the felon,or a crime partner,who then,for a price,sells it back to the criminal.It go's on at every stinking,small minded,red neck gun show in the country.If you trust the Government (ATF)(Ruby Ridge boys)to be able to regulate this industry,good luck!It's the biggest scam hiding behind a Constitutional right known to man.
Infact,thre are people out there who make their living doing this very thing.Oakland recently released data showing that 75% of the guns confiscated from crimnals in Alameda county were legally purchased at gun shows(no longer allowed in this county)and sold to the criminals.Twenty five prcent were stolen.Conclution,ATF is doing not a thing except passing out permits.Their excuse when pressed by Alameda DA,sorry,funding is to low to follow up.Something called,you guessed it,Homeland Security.
It's the guns that are the problem.Like I said,give me a gun,and I have the power.Give me a whistle,and nobody's going to die,at least not by my hand.
If your so paranoid,I suggest that you may want to consider moving to a country where you don't have to worry about someone pulling a gun on you first,I can name a few.I'm sure glad my life is not consumed with questioning the motives of every thing that moves to the point I only feel safe with a heater on my person.
 

hill_top

Expert Expediter
Tallcal, I'm not a macho man. I just take advantage of our freedoms instead of taking them for granted. Ghandi changed the world??? I would not say for the better... Look around you at the world today. Or if you would like, look at how it was when he was around, nice change???
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm not paranoid at all. I am trained and prepared. I am confidant and comfortable. I am not dependant on others who are not present 24/7 for my protection or survival. I am intelligent and educated. I am a citizen not a subject. I am your best friend, although we haven't met and you possibly wouldn't acknowledge it. I can say that because I would respond to evil against you just the same as I would respond to evil against my family. I will not accept it. Guns are not the problem. No inanimate object on this planet is the problem. Criminals are the problem. Liberals coddling them are the problem. Restrictive laws that are only obeyed by the honest citizens are the problem. The solution is simple but hard. Liberals will never accept it because they are too soft and only accept softness. Objects never have been and never will be the problem. Misuse of objects is the problem. That isn't the fault of the object or the honest people. It's the fault of the soft people who do not allow the properly harsh punishments deserved. We will likely never agree on things, absent your having an epiphany, but that's ok. I have friends locally with an ocular defect, another many miles away is ok too. I still hold out hope for your awakening.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
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