I only hang with Sheepdogs...

[greg334]

>Ghandi changed the world, read a little more my macho friend.

Where did Gandhi change the world and why are we not following his ideals towards the utopia that seems to be a goal for some? We can’t practice Satyagraha unless we have a safe world to practice it in. He knew this and knew that if the Japanese took India or Germany took England that all bets were off and they would be worst off. He did not support direct involvement in the war itself but non-violent moral support of UK.

Unfortunately we don't live in his time; we are subject to a world that lost the ability to use logic and common sense and to have common goals.

We face a group of people who for the lack of a better statement deserves and needs to be destroyed not only for our survival but the world. This enemy stands for everything that we fought to destroy in the world in the past. They only see their way – no other way is acceptable.

We have internal problems due to freedoms that are no longer respected by all and we face with one such freedom where the media has taken sides with the enemy who would destroy them first on the road to subjugate and enslave the population in general.

We allow people like Cindy Sheehan and Rev Phelps to spread their hatred and bitterness even though they help stir up more hatred and bitterness in our country which helps the enemy.

Taking the guns away from everyone is what the UN, the EU and other countries want to happen here, they want us to falter and fail. They dream of a time where we will be considered a second rate country and powerless to participate in the world as we see fit.

Countries like France are still mad at us because of our diplomatic work and their loss of power because of it, starting with TR and the Japanese - Russo war in 1905 and although the 20th century we have had a part in the peace of the world. The latest is we are going to end up forcing Israel to stop their effort to eradicate the terrorist and we will end up losing them as an ally in the Middle East.

Gandhi; nice try.

 

[highway star]

I was finally able to take the time to read this thread today. I have to agree with Talcal on what a great addition the Soapbox is. This is an excellant and civil debate.

I don't have much to add, Rich covered me pretty well in message 31. As far Iraq, I think the Middle East should be looked at as a region. Sadaam was a very powerful man in the region and clearly fit the definition of evil. The Middle East is a better place without him.

Talcal mentioned Canada in regard to guns. My Grandmother was from Windsor and it is remarkable how much of a difference it makes crossing the river. I don't think there are a lot of outdoor cafes in Detroit. But, just a couple hundred miles to the east things change a bit. Toronto has a great deal of violent crime, much of it involving guns. My Canadian friends are quick to point out that the guns come from the Lower 48, instead of acknowloging that maybe restrictive gun laws are'nt what they're cracked up to be.

 

[ACE]

Hi Tallca101,
Your Ideas on gun control was shared by past leaders like Hitler and Stalin to name a few.
Criminals always will have guns and find ways to get them.
I believe that if you are a responsible person why should the Govt. tell me that I can not protect myself or my family from a threat. My piers will judge me if I used reasonable force not the politicians.

 

[ACE]

This country was largely built on violence. We defeated the Native Americans -Indians-and expanded. We Defeated Mexico and received most of the Southwest.We defeated Spain and received the Phillippines and part of Cuba. We supported Panama split with Colombia so the Canal could be built.

We are a violent nation but I prefer living here than in Canada. Remember their population is 1/10 the size of ours,and they have awful weather.

I do not understand why people who are citizens of the U.S.A. get upset or do not support our desire to support people who will further expand our influence in the world.

But this is nothing new we had people in the North protest and riot for the end of the civil war. President Lincoln had people arrested in the press for writing critical editorials about the war. People did not want us to be involved in WWI or WWII that was Europes problem.

These same type of people are using this thought process to undermine our mission to change the face of the Middle East and to lesson the strength of violent fanatics that want to reach our shores and disrupt our lifestyle. I am not concerened if Sunnis or es kill each other or if they want to live in the stone ages. I am concerned when their ideas conflict with the interests of the U.S.A.

Our Forefathers would not use violence as a first option. Neither do we today.

 

[LDB]

Here's an excellent article that clearly explains things.

http://www.jim.com/cowards.htm

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[stanleyshenko]

Ghandi changed the world? Oddly enough, so did Jesus Christ. Is is strange how Jesus never told us to disarm but to buy a sword if we didn't have one; told the soldier to be content with his pay when asked how he could do the right thing; when his own disciple cut off the ear of the high preist's slave with his sword when they came to arrest Jesus in the garden that night?

One other thing, it is point of law settled by none other than the Supreme Court of the United States that the police have *NO* legal obligation to protect you from harm. The only time they have a legal obligation to protect you is if you are under arrest because you no longer have the ability to do so yourself. You are under their care and protection once under their control.

Call a cop or blow your whistle, but you can't blame them if they can't make it there to help you in time. Rely on yourself to protect yourself. I do.


Stanley

 

[mrgoodtude]

This is an emotional subject for me....I guess as a loyal sheep I believe in God 1st and foremost: I believe in the prophecy of end times: and I believe in my son who has to be the sheepdog (a ##### fine sheepdog I might add). I don't understand or at least can't justify our occupation in Iraq and I feel for the innocent involved. I talked to my son on leave and asked him how he felt about going there and he told me he doesn't know ##### about why we are there but he knows his "battle buddies are going and he has to be there too" (quote) and thats enough for me.
Right wrong or indifferent we will stand before God one day and I only hope some of us are worthy to stand.
Mike

 

[tallcal101]

Hi Stan,
Well,this argument is going no where.
I'm not sure of your stature Stan,but the good lord blessed me with a 6 ft 7 inch frame,I go 230.I work out regularly,don't smoke or drink,and keep fit.Although I don't mean to intimidate,I can be intimidating as hell.More then one little man with the big complex has f*****d with me in the past,and with few exceptions,I have not had to defend myself.If I'm wearing my cowboy boots,I'm 6 ft 9.
When I go to place's that I know are full of wanna be big guys(you know what they look like,this countries full of em),and they want to dare me,I look down at them and smile a warm grin,and don't get out of their way.Don't need a cannon.

 

[stanleyshenko]

TallCal,

Good point. But imagine someone of your stature as a bad guy. Imagine someone not of your stature or mine (a mere 6' 2" in cowboy boots) as the potential victim? Imagine someone's aged mother and father, or wife and child, or perhaps the infirm or crippled. Now what do we have here? A "fair" fight? Now imagine honest tax paying non-criminal people who lack stature but are armed. Would it be fair to say they are my equal (or yours) in whatever nefarious shemes I plan against them? Should I have anything to fear from them if I was (and am) a law abiding tax paying citizen like themselves? No, I think not. And that, my friend, is the point I am making.

It is easy for us to dismiss the need for protection due to the gifts our Lord and Creator bestowed upon you and me, but these gifts were not bestowed equally on everyone as is plain to see. Sad, but true.

I fear no law abiding well-armed citizen at all. The criminals should fear me and them.


Stanley

 

[greg334]

As it goes, some criminals will say that the bigger you are, the bigger the target. I don't think size matters if someone wants to make you a victim.

Oh just FYI, the series of car jackings and killings in Florida about 10 years ago was because tourist are unarmed and the criminals knew it.

 

[LDB]

Yes, the targets being rental cars from the airports carrying tourists who couldn't fight back.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Big Iron]

There is only one problem with gun laws:
Gun laws only affect LAW ABIDING citizens.

 

[tallcal101]

Thats it,lets make sure grandma is locked and loaded!Great idea,wish I had thought of it myself.How about the neighbor with the Father with Alzimers,need a gun in that house.
Sorry,more guns in the hands of citizens will never be the answer.How do you think guns end up in the hands of bad guys?This ain't brain surgery here my man,they are stolen and sold for prifit.Often by "good"guys(legal,at least on paper,gun owners).The gun makers don't care how many guns end with the bad guys,the more the marrier,it's all about profit for the merchants of death.Chaos,and social disorder are considered wind fall times for the gun makers(legall and illigal).
Ok,there is good news.Take a month in China,no guns allowed.Let the fear gradually slip away,as you find yourself in the middle of 1.5 billion people,and immersed in their culture,food and history.I've done it many times,for many years,its good for the souland it's a wonderous feeling.And it's really cheap!!
Be safe

 

[tallcal101]

And Columbine occured as a result of a legal gun owner buying automatic wapons and ammo for a couple teenagers who had the cash.
Check out
Bowling at Columbine(if you dare,the devil was on the production team)OHHHHHH BEWARE,THE TRUTH IS A DANGEROUS THING,BUT DON'T TELL ANYONE,SHHHHHHHHHH

 

[greg334]

Tallcal,

First thing you need to do is learn about the weapons laws. These kids did not purchase 'legal' automatic weapons. Buying a class 3 weapon (that is what a machine gun is, a class 3 weapon) is not easy and cheap. others may explain to you in detail the taxes you pay and sometimes the inspections that need to endure. I know several people who have class 3 weapons and they keep them locked up and no one has any way to gain access to them.

the second thing is that the fault of columbine lies with the parents and most of all the school itself. there was enough signs to warn the administration to intervien, enough kids knew these two weren't wrapped right and the parents never really cared.

The third thing is of course China is a safe place - of course you don't need a gun. I am all for the idea that only responsible people own a gun and also feel that china's form of drug rehabilitation is the only way to go but I will never see ether one of those things happen here.

If we try their form of justice tried here, it would be a bloodbath in the streets. there is a trade off in their form of justice, it is called limitation on rights and in some cases no rights at all. you are censored, you are subject to all kinds of spying and for the most part the progress that the chinese enjoy today can be taken away in a flash if the leadership feels that life is getting too much out of thier control. It may be a great place to visit but their ideals are far from progressive or justifiable.

 

[tallcal101]

Sorry Greg as usual, you bypassed the facts.Those automatic weapons were purchased for the boys by a legal aged adult,who passed all ATF hocus pocus,and gave the boys the guns,for a small profit.It is not disputed,it is the facts,and you can see the whole story,should you choose to,on,you know the name of the movie.Not arguing China's,or Zimbabwe'a or anyones Criminal justice system.Talking about taking a trip.But,I realize,China sounds like the dark side of the moon to many.Too bad,they have 4800 years more culture then us,and have preserved it.
By the way,have you checked out the latest criminal justice system in W's favorite Middle East country,Saudi Arabia? The home of the 911 pilots?The pilots who were ignored by the FBI,because it was,oh never mind...........The fall elections are coming up,yippee!!!

 

[tallcal101]

No guns,no need for gun control
It actually works in many western countries,perfectly civilized countries at that.
By the way,the west was not won with six shooters and rifles.Big lie,big big lie.It was "won"(settled)by agra business,water diversion and fat cat bankers from the east.
Wild Bill and Anne Oakly were circus performers.Hate to burst your bubble.

 

[greg334]

Well Tallcal your funny.

I got to say that I am right.

Yes the person who purchased the weapon was wrong to sell it to them but the person did not sell these guys any automatic weapons - period. What he sold them was a single TEC-DC9 semiautomatic pistol (weapon of choice for MS13 and other nice community groups) - the other weapons used was two shotguns and a semiauto rifle and if I read right were provided by their parents.

The sad thing is that outside of the firearms they used the following
48 -- Carbon Dioxide bombs
27 -- Pipe bombs
11 -- 1.5 gallon propane bombs
7 -- gas or napalm bombs
2 -- 20 pound propane bombs

Let’s go after the people who sold them all the material that was used to make these 'bombs' – would this make you happy. Outlaw propane, gasoline and co2?

In addition to this, they only fired 188 rounds but a lot of the building damage was done by the bombs. This is not amount of rounds fired for automatic weapons - like that LA thing where thousands of rounds were fired.

As much as I hate something like this happening ever, it is avoidable when people don't take their children seriously enough to know when there are serious problems. Gun laws will never help, if someone wants to hurt others they will always find a way.

You need to read the Jackson county and the secret service reports instead of listening to Air America's report.

Ok yes you are right; China has had 4800 years to get it right.
They at times (all through their history) to do the right thing like;
Kill off all their ruling class several times and change governments a few times
Kill off all intellectuals a few times – professors take note
Controlling the press with violence
They got the spying thing down really well and know how to influence politicians
Oh and they know how to be patient, very patient

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking China - I find it a fascinating country and want to go there to see it first hand. I would also think that with their diet, they could market weight loss tourism really well and make millions from many of us FAT Americans.

The other thing is that YES the FBI and the CIA both knew these terrorist but who was it that put in place the policy that the two can not share any information? I and most of the intellegnet people who have a grip on some of this stuff know that the importance to share info is at the top of the list.

Did you guess who yet?

Let me give you a hint; Janet -kill them anyway- Reno’s deputy AG.

Still guessing?

Ok Jamie Gorelick – who should not have been on the 9/11 commission.

See before this memo (order), agencies reluctantly shared information. The p*ssing match between the CIA and the FBI has been around for a long time and it was not the problem with 9/11 – the memo and the Clinton administration trying to micromanage the intelligence agencies was the major problem. In addition to this, Carter – the old fart who is senile – took the Church and Pike committees’ suggestion and pretty much tied the hands of the CIA and other agencies. He gave us FISA and FISC beside a bunch of other things. Oh Carter did NOT stop the CIA from assassinating foreign leaders that was Ford and Regan. I don't by any means think that Bush has yet to put together a real intellegnce system, there is a lot of more work needed to be done including finding out who is leaking information and convice them of treason.

AND if you want to know why I strongly believe in strong responsible gun ownership, you mentioned one country I was in that took care of it’s citizens really well. Look up ZANU-PF to see what I am talking about. Been there, Saw it.

 

[LDB]

As usual, the liberals provide distorted facts to villanize inanimate objects and Cal has been fooled by them. There were no automatic weapons. There was one illegally transferred semi automatic weapon. The rest were fully legal. The bigger issue as pointed out is the school and parents ignoring a blatant problem. The BIGGEST issue is the prohibition of legal firearms in the hands of trained and licensed individuals from schools. Had that been my daughters school at a time I was on campus it would have ended sooner with less loss of life. I would have ended it. There are many equally competent individuals, including some of the teachers. Heaven forbid that we make a school a truly safe place to be by allowing the right armed people on campus.

Cal, fyi, the incidence of bystanders or others being accidentally or incorrectly shot is 3 times greater in police shootings than in properly trained citizens such as myself. I don't expect to convert you. You are too far gone. That's sad but it's how it is. I'll just continue doing what's right and if Columbine comes to where I am I'll deal with it in the correct manner.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tallcal101]

Thank you Leo,I respect your opinion,as you know.I'm not trying to convet anyone,especially on this forum.I know where I stand,and if you will excuse me,I'm not brainwashed,and have held firm to my position since the second time my brother,in an intoxicated state,aimed the family shotgun at me and my friends.Drunk legal gun owners are the same as sober legal gun owners,as they use their Constitutional right to bare arms in any state of mind.
Where does it say in the Costitution you have to be sober to blow someone's head off,because he made a pass at your wife,or stole your son's bike?Unfortunatly,it happens each and every day in this country.The most dangerous place to live in the World.
Liberal or not,guns kill people from all sides of the fence.
A Conservative Board of Supervisor member in San Francisco(retired cop)walked into the Mayors office,blew him away,then went to another Board members office,who happened to be gay,and ended his lifes,then was to chicken **** to end his own life.I mean,I could go on and on,but will not bother.
Just for your information,I have many,many liberal friends who are members in good standing of the NRA.I just remind them that any club that has Charlton Heston as the spokesman better have a good legal team.
Better get used to librals Leo,looks like this country is fed up with Republicans,or what ever they call themselves.They are more splintered then one of Barry Bonds broken bats!