I only hang with Sheepdogs...

Aviator

Expert Expediter
The following essay was written by Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, U.S. Army (Ret.) Director, Killology Research Group (www.killology.com). Colonel Grossman is a somewhat controversial figure - he authored the book - "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" - a very interesting topic that our politically correct society would rarely discuss. It is a long read, but you are probably sitting around waiting for aload anyway ;)

On Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves
By Dave Grossman
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there that will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."...


If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, which is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up! Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.

There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- From sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

"Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize; especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust, or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear, helplessness, and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in "Fear Less," his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically, at your moment of truth.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
What do you call the Marines that slaughtered (in cold blood)the women and children in Iraq 6 months ago?I call them sick dogs.
It would be nice if dogs and wolves and ##### cats could all be defined by 911(it would make w and his gang so pleased)but often the wolves are hiding in sheeps clothing.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A very clear and accurate portrayal of society. Unfortunately the sheep don't stop with denial. They have to do everything in their power to deny others the ability and means to be sheepdogs. It is unfortunate they have managed to strip away the rights and means of protection we all should have. Given the means and opportunity I would do everything in my power not only on behalf of my family but also of the undeserving sheep. Unfortunately the sheep have stripped me of much of that ability.

One can wish and hope the bad things only happen to those who've caused the inability to respond but that sadly isn't the case. Bad things happen to those who would properly respond if they could but aren't permitted to. As mentioned, most if not all of the 14 people in the Ft. Worth church could have been saved. Many of the Columbine students could have been saved. In all likelihood both towers and the Pentagon and the people lost in the Pennsylvania field would have been saved. Sadly the meekest/weakest of the sheep don't want that and have seen to it that it can't happen.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
>What do you call the Marines that slaughtered (in cold
>blood)the women and children in Iraq 6 months ago?I call
>them sick dogs.
>It would be nice if dogs and wolves and ##### cats could all
>be defined by 911(it would make w and his gang so
>pleased)but often the wolves are hiding in sheeps clothing.


Well, for starters, let's wait till they have had a fair trial. Once they have AND then IF they are found guilty, if you would have read the thing there is this in it " Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours."

Aviator
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Once again,for all to read,and hopfully understand,there was not one Iraqi flying,plotting,or in any other way involved with 911.This is not disputed by anyone,including Condi,Georgie or Donny.
They were all Saudi Arabians,with close links to the w's family.
So,instead of going after the wolves,the sheepdogs turned tail,and went and killed a bunch of sheep,(and lambs)who's country we invaded. Led by a bunch of sheep dog puppies,masquarading as sheep dogs.(Reservisits).Why do the flag wavers's continue to get the facts distorted, and backwards?As the real wolves continue to run wild,and our government continues to chase those not involed with 911,the American people are rapidly loosing faith in the lies and baseless arguments being put forth by civilian leaders who botched this military disaster.It has turned into a big civil war, with America in the middle without a clue as to what to do next.
Aviator,I don't dispute most of your comments,as the brave and fearlss soliders that defend freedom,such as the the brave Jewish solders who have had enough)are doing now,are to be respected.
They are fighting real,self avowed,terroists.REAL TERRORISTS!!!!
It's a shame that the hapless actions of this administration,as reflected by the right wing radio talk shows,continue to try and justify the death and wounding of so many American young people,not to mention the deaths and mutilations of inncoent Iraqi citizens as they try to defend their country against American invaders.
I wish I could find something in your comments to get excited about,but it's just more grist for the mill until this country finish's the real job,and go's after the real terroists.Unfortunatly,we are running low on sheepdogs,it's a pity.
I'm in line with 60% of the American people on this issue,so it would appear that correctness in the area of political belief has now swung,and we are longer a small group of left wing,bleeding heart liberals.See you in the fall.It's going to fun.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The point is much larger than the situation in Iraq. It isn't one conflict or one era or one anything. It's the general state of citizenry regardless of their citizenship. It's great and lots of fun to bypass the full picture and Bush bash. The full picture is much bigger and very well presented in the original post.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I sure hope Dave Grossman is a better sheepdog than writer, because the essay is so full of contradictions, unwarranted assumptions, and untruths, that it's basically drivel. To point out just a few:
Contradictions: "Sheep are not capable of hurting each other except by accident or extreme provocation" "If you have no capacity for violence, then you are a sheep" Which is it- no capacity, or only under extreme provocation? Both statements cannot be true.
Unwarranted assumptions: "Students, victims of Columbine, were big, tough, high school students, and under ordinary circumstances, they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids, they just had nothing to say to a cop" Does the author have knowledge to that effect, or is he generalizing, based upon his perception of high school students? And, were the female victims also "big, tough, high school students"? I personally know a lot of high school students, and not one of them fits the description given.
Untruth: "I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me, it's like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside, it is soft & gooey, but someday, it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without it's hard blue shell. Police, soldiers, and other warriors are that shell, & someday, the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators." He is seriously saying that the civilization we have now is evolving into something wonderful? Really? How many mass murderers troubled the founders of our American civilization, not counting the original inhabitants of the land? And,is he really suggesting that someday, predators will cease to exist, because of the warriors?
I appreciate the job that police and soldiers do, a job I know I couldn't do myself, any more than I could paint a masterpiece - I just hope they do it better than this man explains it.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
RE: Help!

Well it is a good article, but unless we get our s**t together we will lose our way of life really fast.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
With all due respect Leo,it is about Iraq.We are $400 billion and close to 3000 American lives into this mess.We were lied to about the reasons to go,we were misled on the mission,were ripped off by the likes of Halliburton for untold billions,and now we are stuck with no plan.
It is not just Bush bashing,it is the wholesale distruction of our country by Bush loyalists who were rewarded for putting the moron in power!!Your tax dollars and mine Leo,down the rat hole,lining the pockets of right wing rich who could care less about Iraq,or it's people.And Osama is the real winner.
American citizens are waking up to the rip off,and 60% agree with me Leo.Dream about it being different,applaud Bill O'and Rush for fighting the battle,but the gig is up.
Americans have smelled the rat,identified the rat,and the tide has turned.We will be a stronger nation as a result of being fleeced once again by the right,but it won't happen again for a while.
Talking about sheepdogs and wolves is as uesless to most American as a Bush press conference.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Hey TallCal,
What you describe, isn't this the same c**p that was also said about Vietnam and the war over there?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am not saying Iraq isn't a major issue in the world today. I am saying the original post isn't only about Iraq. It's also about the ongoing and escalating problems here at home with massacres in churches, schools and places of business because the multitudes of sheep have foolishly and stupidly forced laws disabling the sheepdogs from the means and ability to prevent them. We shouldn't be in Iraq. They should have been dealt with conclusively a decade ago when the original opportunity presented itself. That isn't the entire point of the message presented, at least not as I read it. It's also about our domestic problems with evil.

Would 14 people have died in the Fort Worth church if the police officer had been armed? Would they have if the concealed carry law had been in effect at that time and a properly trained and tested true citizen had been armed? The answer is as close to 100% no as it can be without being able to go back and replay it with the proper scenario. Most likely the event never would have occurred because the assailant would have known there could be someone there with the capacity to deal with him.

Would Columbine have happened if teachers and parents who have been properly trained and tested were allowed to carry concealed at schools? Probably not. If it did happen would it have ended sooner and with less loss of innocent life? Probably so.

That is another part of what the post is saying. It points out that those of us who are willing and capable of protecting the sheep are prohibited from doing so. Your children were safer whenever I had business at the school because I made sure my daughters were safer when I was around. You were safer if you were there. You never knew it and only the most trained eye might have possibly seen there was added protection. Thankfully there was never a need to protect your children or mine. There would have been no hesitation for either.

The sheep feel sorry for the poor widdle bad guys. Poor babies didn't get enough Twinkies when they were widdle or maybe they got too many. Poor babies need their gyms and free time when they're incarcerated. What a load of you know what. Prison should be so terrible nobody would ever do anything to go back once they got out. Third felony conviction automatic death penalty if convicted. Possesson of a weapon during the commission of a felony automatic death penalty. Our benevolent sheep won't hear of dealing appropriately with those who are evil just as they won't allow those willing to stand up against evil to do so. That's the scope of the point, not just Iraq.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
I'm still dumbfounded at the notion that our framers had in mind,by allowing malitias to arm themselves,that a free society would mean that ruthless gun mongers would peddle their death instruments(they know how to skirt the existing laws)and allow the wholesale killing of 12 year old crack dealers to grand father bank robbers.My most recent run in with Alabama shot gun toting idiots has only strengthend my resolve that gun control,real gun control,is the only answer.
But I don't wish to butt my head against that wall on this forum,as it will fall on deaf ears.
So blame everything but the problem,as usual,promote the likes of the NRA,and keep your heads deeply buried in the sand.
When every criminal,and every crack dealer,and every American of every pusuation is armed to the max,then we can all sleep well at night.NOT
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
TallCall: I agree with you 100% on Iraq & Bush, but think you're 100% wrong about gun control. The criminals & crack dealers already have weapons, & would continue to have them even under gun control, because they are criminals. I'd like the predators to have to wonder if the "prey" might be armed, & think about whether whatever they're hoping to get is worth the risk of getting shot.
I can't see gun control as being any more successful than Prohibition was, and for the same reasons.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You are one of the brainwashed sheep. Inanimate objects are inherently bad and do evil things all on their own. Take away the inanimate objects and utopia emerges. Yeah, right. Look at Morton Grove, IL. that stupidly enacted a law to do this and saw their crime rate almost double. Look at Kennesaw, GA. that enacted a law requiring every household to own a firearm and saw their crime rate drop 88%. Look at the last 20 years since these two places enacted those laws and the statistics have remained the same. The majority of evil doers are not so stupid as to realize a disarmed citizenry are victims and an armed citizenry are not. You are the one with his head in the sand if you believe otherwise. The problem isn't the guns. The problem is there is no automatic death penalty for abusing the right to possess them. The 1/3 of states with bans have far higher crime rates than the states that have possession and carry. The places like D.C. and NYC with total bans have higher crime rates still. The criminals will always be armed. It's part of the job description. The only question is whether there will be some capable and equipped to stand against them or whether you sheep will continue to enact laws castrating those who aren't sheep.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Well alright now,this is what the soapbox is all about!As a world traveler,and innocent observer of the coming and goings of other populations,from Mali(it's in West Afirca)to Irian Jaya(it's western New Guinea)to Australia to ,well,about 35 countries at last count,I have somehting to compare the good old USA to.
Now,I've never owned a gun, don't allow them on the property,and advocate a resonable form of gun control.If your thing is to go and kill God's creatures in the bush,have at it.Just as in Britan,or Australia,gun ownership for target shooting,blood letting of other mamals(excluding humans)happens with regularity,and is controlled.You can throw up all the parinoid misgivings about "them(the bad guys)and us(the good guys)"that you may choose to,but it really comes down to how many guns are enough?Half a million,1 million 2 million 100 million........Do you really feel safer knowing that anybody with $10.00 can buy a Saturday night special?
Statistics overwhlemingly support the notion that when there's a hand gun in the house,and somebody dies from it,it ain't the bad guys,IT'S YOUR FAMILY OR A FAMILY FRIEND(or the guy you found your wife or husband in bed with)!!Go figure.Next in line for massive over kill gun collections are the not so well endowed "men"(homophobes included)who are just so ##### sure the bad guys can't wait to get them(or their wives or girlfriends)their ready to blow their b***s off.Oh boy,don't want them in the neighborhood!!!
I'm in the moving business,and everytime some body asks me"do you ship gun collections",I go on alert.The basic line is"don't care what happens to the rest of the "s**t,those guns better arrive in one piece".Yes sir Sargent Major,Hup Hup sir.I mean really,get a life pal.
I keep a perfectly perfoming whistle next to my bed(and an alarm system on my house)and I will blow the whistle and call 911 if the bad guys come.I'm almost 60,and so far,no bad guys(other then the Narc's who once got their address wrong and circled my house and ##### near broke the door down).I wonder if I had a fully automatic"show"machine gun if I would have used it?Guess I'll never know.
This is not a popular position,but it's my position,and too many children have died from gun owners who"think"they have the guns hidden,who did'nt mean to.It just go's on and on and on.
Michael Moore hit on the head(his interview with Charlton Heston was priceless)in Bowling for Columbine.Absolutly nailed the entire argument for gun comtrol.Senile old f**t trying to explain the NRA positon(he's the spokeman remember),what a joke!!
I guess I will continue to live in oblivion of the need to arm myself,and vacation in the many wonderful and safe countries where I can walk at night and feel a alot safer then I do walking at night in most major cities in America.If I get shot,I'll let you know.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
First time I've been called a brainwashed sheep Leo........
I'll bet my big brother can beat up your big brother nah nah nah
 

stanleyshenko

Seasoned Expediter
He also is guilty of the fallacy of the 'excluded middle'.Well, not quite because he talks about the brave sheep dogs. But no matter, we are not just one or the other. How someone who is a sheep in one setting and wolf in the other? How about wolf, but maybe sheep or sheep dog in another setting. Nah, Grossman is too simplistic.

Another thing, gun ownership is one of the acts of genius the Founding Fathers put in the Constitution. I feel safe in a well armed society knowing myself and my fellow citizens are armed. I think it was Robert Heinlein who said 'A well armed society is a polite society'. True words to me.

I do not trust soldiers or policemen. Notice I did not say I don't respect them for the difficult job they do, only I don't trust them. Nobody should. Our founding fathers wrote a document called the Constitution of the United States that is nothing but one long text deliberately designed to cripple government power. Government is force and that is to be feared and held in check. Soldiers and policemen do not gaurantee or protect our freedom, we do. If we don't want to protect and defend it no soldier or cop can. Guns are not about hunting, guns are about freedom.

Good thread. A lot of good posts.

Stanley
 
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