I was just messing with ya. I decided you probably needed it.
Well in that case it's OK!
Boycott the NFL
- Thread starter LDB
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Well in that case it's OK!
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Oh yes ... which is undoubtedly why we adopted JIT ("just in time") inventory control/manufacturing ... which they honed to a fine art ...
That's not really a cultural thing (the context of LOS' post), but more of a business model thing.Oh yes ... which is undoubtedly why we adopted JIT ("just in time") inventory control/manufacturing ... which they honed to a fine art ...
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
True ... but it's just possible that business practices might be a reflection of broader cultural values.
It's possible, but JIT inventory doesn't seem to fit into that context. If it did, then JIT, or Lean Manufacturing, would only work in certain cultural paradigms. The fact that it works in all cultures would indicate that it's not culture based, but business based.
The Toyota system was based on the Ford system, but the Ford system was not sustainable in post-war Japan (or for very long in post-war America). It held on in America for as long as it did only because of cultural attitudes in the mindset held over from the Great Depression. It allowed auto manufacturers to take advantage of workers in harsh ways. But they were unsustainable in a world market, and Japan knew it.
It was Japan's culture (and the fact that they were starting from scratch) that allowed them to hone it to a fine art, but it wasn't the culture that created it. While American manufacturing was more concerned with processes (Bessemer, what each worker did, how each worker process worked together, etc.), Japan took the American ideas largely ignored by American manufactures, like Motion Studies and process charting, including value added processes that occurred in between or outside the worker processes, and implemented them as part of a whole manufacturing concept. It was more efficient and cost effective, rather than a cultural reflection.
US manufactures saw that, and eventually copied it, but initially only copied the superficial aspects of Lean Manufacturing, and failed. What they did was, in effect, copy one sentence out of context and tried to apply it to something else for their own purposes.
letzrockexpress
Veteran Expediter
It's possible, but JIT inventory doesn't seem to fit into that context. If it did, then JIT, or Lean Manufacturing, would only work in certain cultural paradigms. The fact that it works in all cultures would indicate that it's not culture based, but business based.
The Toyota system was based on the Ford system, but the Ford system was not sustainable in post-war Japan (or for very long in post-war America). It held on in America for as long as it did only because of cultural attitudes in the mindset held over from the Great Depression. It allowed auto manufacturers to take advantage of workers in harsh ways. But they were unsustainable in a world market, and Japan knew it.
It was Japan's culture (and the fact that they were starting from scratch) that allowed them to hone it to a fine art, but it wasn't the culture that created it. While American manufacturing was more concerned with processes (Bessemer, what each worker did, how each worker process worked together, etc.), Japan took the American ideas largely ignored by American manufactures, like Motion Studies and process charting, including value added processes that occurred in between or outside the worker processes, and implemented them as part of a whole manufacturing concept. It was more efficient and cost effective, rather than a cultural reflection.
US manufactures saw that, and eventually copied it, but initially only copied the superficial aspects of Lean Manufacturing, and failed. What they did was, in effect, copy one sentence out of context and tried to apply it to something else for their own purposes.
They can thank Bill Deming for Statistical Process Analysis. He went to Chrysler, Ford and GM with it before he went to Japan. The rest is history. One more time the big 3 knew better... They should've been liquidated... GM and Mopar anyway.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that's necessarily true.
It's possible for something to generally reflect some aspect(s) or attribute(s) of (a) culture, and yet be a sound business principle.
The success (or lack thereof) in implementation of the principles (and subsequent adherence to them) in a particular culture might well be affected by the particular culture itself. In fact, a good deal of the remainder of your post (unquoted) could be said to make that case.
Well, no, it's not necessarily true, as there are usually exceptions to most things, but it's generally true. Layout's statement was true, in the general context, as Japanese and American cultures are so different that you can't just take the ways of one culture and plop them into the other and have them work.
What you did was take Layout's statement, snip one sentence out of that context, and used it to create a different, specific context in order to disprove the original, general statement. Can you guess which logical fallacy that is?
Deming took his ideas to Japan because the Big 3 [fatuous arrogant morons] told him to, "Made in Japan" being then synonymous with cheap throwaway junk. They said Japan needed help improving quality, not us - they really believed they'd always have a captive market for whatever they built, right? No need to improve quality, we're selling plenty! [And people blame the unions for everything]
Rebuffed and [probably] stung, Deming took it to Japan, where the culture of politeness required them to listen without snickering when he said he could turn their reputation around in 3 years. He did it in two. [I'm going on memory with that - but the fact is he delivered what he promised, and in much less time than he expected.]
It wouldn't be half so infuriating if the American auto manufacturers had learned from the experience, but they're still arrogant morons, IMO. It's downright embarrassing.
WanderngFool
Active Expediter
Queue the lynchmobs - I'm about to say that capitalism isn't serving our needs as well as we'd like.
Did the corps meet their quarterly top line and bottom line targets? Did the bigwigs get their bonuses? Mission accomplished. No eye to the future - no need for all that yin yang. <- kinda like a pun only not so much lol
From this post I can make a couple of guesses. One, you don't have a very good understanding of the Japanese culture. Two you don't understand how BOTH the unions AND the companies HERE, in our culture, would, first, not like "JIT", and second, how BOTH would cause the problems we have with "JIT" here, which led to the birth of the expediting industry.
"JIT" works better in Japan DUE to their culture, nothing to do with snickering, and does not work as will here, due to OUR culture, snickering or not. It is FAR more complicated than that, and it's roots go back for thousands of years, in BOTH cultures. It is not as easy to change as some seem to believe it is.
The vast majorit of American's, and I would guess yourself included, would be very reluctant to live under the cultural restrictions that the Japanese are quite happy in.
"Queue the lynchmobs - I'm about to say that capitalism isn't serving our needs as well as we'd like. "
What system out there is working better? How well has Marxism worked in the Soviet Union, OH WAIT, there IS no Soviet Union any longer. China is heading for a crash. Almost, if not all, of the world's countries are in more debt than we are and MOST of our uncovered debt is in socialist programs. What's your solution?
And don't get on the LynchMob they are VERY good people. I know George quite well, he makes great goose calls. Of course they ARE used for fun, which the socialists are trying to outlaw!
LYNCH MOB CALLS (LMC) - GOOSE CALLS - DUCK CALLS - BROTHERHOOD
What system out there is working better? How well has Marxism worked in the Soviet Union, OH WAIT, there IS no Soviet Union any longer. China is heading for a crash. Almost, if not all, of the world's countries are in more debt than we are and MOST of our uncovered debt is in socialist programs. What's your solution?
And don't get on the LynchMob they are VERY good people. I know George quite well, he makes great goose calls.
Of course they ARE used for fun, which the socialists are trying to outlaw! LYNCH MOB CALLS (LMC) - GOOSE CALLS - DUCK CALLS - BROTHERHOOD
WanderngFool
Active Expediter
"Queue the lynchmobs - I'm about to say that capitalism isn't serving our needs as well as we'd like. "
What system out there is working better? How well has Marxism worked in the Soviet Union, OH WAIT, there IS no Soviet Union any longer. China is heading for a crash. Almost, if not all, of the world's countries are in more debt than we are and MOST of our uncovered debt is in socialist programs. What's your solution?
And don't get on the LynchMob they are VERY good people. I know George quite well, he makes great goose calls.
LYNCH MOB CALLS (LMC) - GOOSE CALLS - DUCK CALLS - BROTHERHOOD
China is not heading for a crash. China executed a "soft landing" and is trying desperately to reel their economy in as it tends to overheat which creates it's own set of problems.
Japan was kicking our butts pretty well and sometime around 1990 or 1991 we convinced them that their currency was too undervalued and they needed to correct that. And then they plunged into the "lost decade" and then another lost decade. Hope Abenomics will turn them around. Note that we're trying the exact same attack against China but they ain't buying it. They saw Japan's blunder and they'll do just enough to appease us if necessary but no more.
My post was intended to be light-hearted I am serious when I say that capitalism needs to be controlled a little. The invisible hand of the market doesn't always do it's job. Witness the "Minksy Moment" we just went through with our economy. Where was the invisible hand of the market when it came to housing prices? Or credit default swaps? Or S&P or Moody's AAA ratings for anything they didn't understand?
Can you tell me the last time we had a truly free market? Not in my lifetime for sure. Watch for China to crash. I am not talking a currency. Europe is not far behind. By the way, just how much more "control" do we need? We can't even fart without getting permission from the EPA now. Everything is regulated, going as far as what light bulbs we can buy and how much water our toilet uses. We are now FORCED to buy manipulated insurance products that we neither need or want.
I LOVE the part when the Feds prossecuted Madoff for his "Ponzi" scheme, when the did EXACTLY the same thing with SS. They point fingers as industry as they bankrupted SS, Medicare and Medicaid. They have run us into 17 TRILLION+ dollars in debt and headed for 20 QUICK and they say capitolism is the problem?
By the way, the housing crash was caused by the federal government getting involved where they had not business. Iif anything is clear, government has NO idea about how business works. IF they did, we would not be SO far in debt. There is no way to get out of debt. We are bankrupt as a country.
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Again: WTH does that have to do with anything?! Are you implying that my comment about the culture of politeness indicates a desire to live under the same cultural restrictions as the Japanese?
When you 'connect the dots', I gotta wonder how you come up with a snail from an outline of a camel....
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Yes ... and while you're watching just remember that the individual that wrote the above said - IIRC - that Obama would be rounding up and interning his enemies in prison camps within a couple months after the election ...
... the 2008 election that is ...
First off, the politeness is only ONE part of the culture in Japan. Politeness would have had little to do with why "JIT" would be accepted quicker and work better there than here. The parts of the culture, like strict obedience when ordered, does not sit all that well here. We question more. It is the order and a much stricter adherence to the idea of living up to the responsibilities and expectations of your position that makes it work better.
In a very loose way one could describe Japan as a "beehive" or "ant colony". Everyone has a function and a place. Everyone is expected to do the job assigned, failure is not an option. That is one of the reasons their kids do better in school, they are expected to do well, parents, and the society in general, demand it, and the parents are expected to make sure that they do. There is little of the "feel good" stuff we have here. The work is demanding, and rather than lower standards to make it easier for the less gifted they expect the less gifted to work harder to make up for the lack of gifts. There are no trophies for just showing up.
No, I did NOT imply a desire to live under a culture like they have in Japan, I said that most American's, I suspect you, would not want too. You would like the "politeness" part but I have no doubt you would NEVER accept many of the traditions that they have or that their culture demands.
We, in the US, need to look a ways to develop systems that work within our culture. We need more "leaders" as opposed to "bosses" both in the work place and in politics. We do better when ideas pass from one level to the next, in both directions.
We DO however, need to start demanding that our kids do better in school. The "FLUFF" has to go. No participation trophies. There has to be intense competition, at all levels, the the best have to be allowed to excel. There has to be clear winners and losers. We once had that, we threw it out, the results show.
letzrockexpress
Veteran Expediter
True, which is why vehicles such as "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin and Litecoin are on the rise. They cannot be manipulated. Their value is what it is. Unfettered, global and unshakable, their value is dictated 100% by the free market. Current world currencies could easily end up obsolete.
Anything can, and will be , manipulated. There are always those who seek to gain advantage through other than "rightful" means. The current world currencies may well become obsolete. That type of upheaval tends to happen through other than peaceful means. "These are the times that try Men's souls"