Backhauls what does your Carrier you for them.

[nightcreacher]

back haul has ruined the trucking industry for the owner opp.
It started back with deregulation.
what is back haul for one is front haul for another.No matter which direction you are going,it costs you the same to operate your truck.Some of the expedite carriers have their expedite customers,and when your not in an expedite area,get you a non expedite load,which you may call back haul,especially when it doesnt have an expedite rate,but keeps you moving.
One advantage to having your own authority,you can put together an LTL load ,or a couple exclusive use loads,which will have a very high revenue,even better than expedite.
Where I am now,are rates very between customers,but we dont actually do back haul,infact some of the loads that return me to my home area, pay better than the loads that send me out.

 

[jaminjim]

back haul has ruined the trucking industry for the owner opp.
It started back with deregulation.
what is back haul for one is front haul for another.No matter which direction you are going,it costs you the same to operate your truck.Some of the expedite carriers have their expedite customers,and when your not in an expedite area,get you a non expedite load,which you may call back haul,especially when it doesnt have an expedite rate,but keeps you moving.
One advantage to having your own authority,you can put together an LTL load ,or a couple exclusive use loads,which will have a very high revenue,even better than expedite.
Where I am now,are rates very between customers,but we dont actually do back haul,infact some of the loads that return me to my home area, pay better than the loads that send me out.

You would combine several exclusive use loads??

 

[ATeam]

While the terms have a long history in the tucking industry and the use of them varies with the situation, the notion of backhaul and headhaul freight makes my skin crawl. It irritates me when someone tries to convince me that I should take a lower rate of pay because it is backhaul freight.

I don't' haul backhaul freight, or headhaul freight; I haul freight. As an expediter, I have no place to get back to unless it is time to go home. With every load, I have a place to head to but do not call the freight headhaul for that reason. It matters not what the freight is called. It matters what the freight pays.

 

[Bruno]

Our drivers like to call them back hauls, but really they should be calling them a back up loads. Nobody wants to do a load for less than your carrier pays you. It all depends on so many factors also. You have to ask yourself if you would turn down a back haul load paying $2.10 a mile for a straight truck from LA,California to Nashville, Tn. That is $1.785 per mile after your carrier takes 15% off the top. Not me, we have done these loads about 10 times since being with Panther. Yea, you can make $4.00 a mile but if the load is 60 miles is really worth it?

 

[nightcreacher]

When the customers are useing logistics companies for their loads,the rates of these loads keep getting cheaper.You can call them back haul or what ever you want.THe brokers know where the high paying freight is,and if your depending on broker freight,the only way to saty at a high pay per mile ,is take loads that either no one wants,or are going to low paying areas.For instance,I get almost 2 bucks a mile from the Reno to the east coast,but my loads out to Sparks are under 1.20 PER MILE,,and they are pharmaceutical loads. The round trip money is good ,but the loads out suck.
I get 1.50 per mile from ohio to Texas,and 1.90 back to Pa,cause no one wants to go there,and there is a long dead head to get reloaded

 

[Bruno]

When the customers are useing logistics companies for their loads,the rates of these loads keep getting cheaper.You can call them back haul or what ever you want.THe brokers know where the high paying freight is,and if your depending on broker freight,the only way to saty at a high pay per mile ,is take loads that either no one wants,or are going to low paying areas.For instance,I get almost 2 bucks a mile from the Reno to the east coast,but my loads out to Sparks are under 1.20 PER MILE,,and they are pharmaceutical loads. The round trip money is good ,but the loads out suck.
I get 1.50 per mile from ohio to Texas,and 1.90 back to Pa,cause no one wants to go there,and there is a long dead head to get reloaded

Steve I understand where you coming from. I don't move cheap freight. Now if we can put two $1.00 a mile loads on the truck going the same way. Yes that is a different story. At TST Expedite they would put two and three loads on the truck if we could fit them all. TST would pay you full rate on all of them. We only got .80 a mile and .90 going into Canada all tolls paid. but fuel was a lot cheaper back then also. Jay Hobbs and Bob Teshey are so great guys and I learn a lot from Jay on how to do paperwork going in and out of Canada.

 

[lugnut1]

This thread contains the beginning elements to a new thread that would define for future “transportation specialists”, our term for truck drivers, and a standard terminology that the majority of those who get behind the wheels of Americas CMV can depend as they work within the transportation industry.

Possible title: A morphology of transportation terms as posted and defined by EO members and ratified via members.

I have seen "polling post" on EO that would allow for the voting on the best definition for terms as chosen by, well I hope you get the idea.

 

[greg334]

Once again you assume that I don't get it. The term back haul used by many in regards to a load that gets the driver out of the area where they are headed to.

Blah Blah Blah...

Sorry Dave, the problem is you don't get what most who have posted in the thread are saying, I even agree with Phil on this one. You insist on it being called something it isn't for most of us and you don't understand that we do not operate out of a home base like the rest of the industry. Most of us go where the freight goes and know what it takes to get back to a paying area - many companies pay for a relocation while many of us plan on relocating which is built into our rate.

Here is my conclusion about the subject, it doesn't matter what happened in the past or if your drivers like the term, if a company is willing to put inexpensive freight on your truck and call it whatever to move that truck, it shows that the company isn't using the capacity in the best interest to produce the most revenue. For many, it is no problem NOT to use that term, it may not be on our vocabulary or in our business models because we are capable of using the capacity we have to make the most revenue per mile or load while skipping over those inexpensive single exclusive use loads that cost all of us money.

 

[Bruno]

Sorry Dave, the problem is you don't get what most who have posted in the thread are saying, I even agree with Phil on this one. You insist on it being called something it isn't for most of us and you don't understand that we do not operate out of a home base like the rest of the industry. Most of us go where the freight goes and know what it takes to get back to a paying area - many companies pay for a relocation while many of us plan on relocating which is built into our rate.

Here is my conclusion about the subject, it doesn't matter what happened in the past or if your drivers like the term, if a company is willing to put inexpensive freight on your truck and call it whatever to move that truck, it shows that the company isn't using the capacity in the best interest to produce the most revenue. For many, it is no problem NOT to use that term, it may not be on our vocabulary or in our business models because we are capable of using the capacity we have to make the most revenue per mile or load while skipping over those inexpensive single exclusive use loads that cost all of us money.

Greg

Okay the term back haul some use it to get them a load home. Some use the term to get them out of the area where they are delivering too. It's just a word or term Greg. Nobody is saying that it has to be cheap freight either Greg. That is YOU that is always saying that you can put small loads together to make what you need to make a profit per mile. Now that I have pointed that we have done that your changing your tune and saying " it shows that the company isn't using the capacity in the best interest to produce the most revenue".

Now I think putting 3 small loads on a truck going to Canada back in 1998 paying .90 a mile all to the same plant is very good money. When your getting $2.70 a mile mainly when all the runs was over 500 miles each. Did it happen all the time? No, but it does happen. We would still have a truck on with TST if US customs wasn't such a pain towards drivers.

As far as Phil goes, I'm sure he feels the same way I do. SAY NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT. We have a set amount that our trucks needs to make per mile and we keep to that. I haven't been doing this since 1995 to lose money as you may think. My company has grown more in the last three years because of what I have LEARNED from people like Davekc, Ken Jackson, John Elliott and yes even Phil on business matters. If you ever took the time to get to know these people instead of looking down on them. You will find out that they are bunch of people with a passion for the business.

With that being said Greg, not everyone runs a business the same way as you Greg. I know you mean well, but you need to STOP trying to tell people how to run their business. We are all not dumb and we didn't get to where we are because we are dumb. You post things like " You just don't get what MOST people are saying " it very insulting to people. Some won't say anything to you because you like to attack everything that they may say. Like you do with Ateam. This just happens to be one of the few times that you agreed with Phil.

Now, I will say it again Greg. You have a lot to offer to the members of EO, but your always right way of posting is getting old. Lets just say you run your business one way and I run mine another way. It's not a bad thing, if we all did the same things in life, life would be boring. Now isn't life great here in the United States of America that we have the freedom to run our business's different than each other. Be safe out on the road if your still driving over the road.

 

[lugnut1]

"We are all not dumb and we didn't get to where we are because we are dumb."

You imply some of you are dumb, which ones, and just where do you feel you are?

 

[chefdennis]

Me me me ...i am dumber then a box of rocks....

 

[Turtle]

Nearly every load I take is a backhaul. Well, I haul it in the back of the van, anyway.

 

[Bruno]

You imply some of you are dumb, which ones, and just where do you feel you are?

No, I talking about the members of Expediters Online. I guess I should have clarified that better. Sorry about that.

 

[Bruno]

Me me me ...i am dumber then a box of rocks....

I would have disagree as your drive for Load1 brother.

 

[Rocketman]

I would have disagree as your drive for Load1 brother.

Yeah but he makes lots of mistakes. Im told he keeps showing up way early at some of the deliveries

 

[Bruno]

Yeah but he makes lots of mistakes. Im told he keeps showing up way early at some of the deliveries

Better to be early than late. LOL

 

[CharlesD]

I would say that the majority of carriers aren't booking the majority of their freight from a specific geographic location, with the exception of some of the big boys, so the whole idea of a backhaul is something concocted by brokers to try to find that one guy who either lives or works out of the area that load is going to. What's the point in paying a full rate on anything anymore because every piece of freight out there is somebody's backhaul. The whole idea just let's brokers pad their profit margins on certain loads.

 

[nobb4u]

What all of you are referring to here as backhauls are actually broker loads. There is no such thing as a backhaul in the trucking industry, unless you are using loads to return your trucks to their normal dock.

I know it is a technicality in terms but a load, is a load, is a load. It doesn't matter what it pays or where it is going, it is freight. And if it pays a rate you are will to run for then take it and don't worry what it is called.

 

[greg334]

Okay the term back haul some use it to get them a load home. Some use the term to get them out of the area where they are delivering too. It's just a word or term Greg. Nobody is saying that it has to be cheap freight either Greg.

Yep it is a term that has no real place here because most of us do not operate out of the same location and many use the term to indicate cheaper or rather less than profitable loads to move the truck. A lot of people, I think you are one of them who said it was cheap freight so where am I wrong?

That is YOU that is always saying that you can put small loads together to make what you need to make a profit per mile.

Yep I sure do, and amazingly there are a lot of people operating like this. One thing that you didn't get before but since you were explained what I was saying, you now do this?

Now that I have pointed that we have done that your changing your tune and saying " it shows that the company isn't using the capacity in the best interest to produce the most revenue".

You didn't point out much and if you think I'm changing my tune, think again. I am saying that you, the truck owner/driver is cutting yourself short by allowing the company to tell you to move without fully compensating you for the move. What that means is say your company asks you to move from St Louis to Atlanta, it should be a move at your full rate, not a relocation rate. The cost of running the truck is no different whether it is loaded or not. SO your company can look for a load that gets you to Atlanta or pay you a full rate if they need in Atlanta but most of them will never do that.

Now I think putting 3 small loads on a truck going to Canada back in 1998 paying .90 a mile all to the same plant is very good money. When your getting $2.70 a mile mainly when all the runs was over 500 miles each. Did it happen all the time? No, but it does happen. We would still have a truck on with TST if US customs wasn't such a pain towards drivers.

That was then this is now. IF you are comparing the loads then to today, then that's a problem you need to work out because this industry and the world is a lot different. AND why worry about the drivers, are they that lazy to put up with customs and get past it like thousands of other drivers do every day.

As far as Phil goes, I'm sure he feels the same way I do. SAY NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT. We have a set amount that our trucks needs to make per mile and we keep to that. I haven't been doing this since 1995 to lose money as you may think.

I think Phil's point is that it has ZERO to do with a worn out cliche but rather the business practices that he and others have. What I mean is that he looks for loads, not partial loads or loads that pay marginal rates without compensation - as in if he can take three loads at a $1.20 a mile to go somewhere within his criteria, then he will take it. If it is not one that fills his needs than nope it is a no go for those loads. He knows exactly what I am talking about as he now is experiencing the same exact way I have been operating for the past four years. Maybe you should operate like that for a bit?

As for Say No to Cheap Freight, I had an interesting discussion with a Canadian "expediter" yesterday and it seems that the problem with cheap freight is that everyone seems to accept the $1.50 a mile plus FSC as a good rate and this allows the shipper to fish for cheaper rates. In other words, if you accept that $1.50 a mile, you are part of the problem - not the solution. In this business, a truck should not move for less than $2 a mile base rate when it is leased onto one of th big carriers - regardless what some say.

My company has grown more in the last three years because of what I have LEARNED from people like Davekc, Ken Jackson, John Elliott and yes even Phil on business matters. If you ever took the time to get to know these people instead of looking down on them. You will find out that they are bunch of people with a passion for the business.

I have met a lot of people with business passion, and excluding Dave, I can tell you that those who have taught me about this industry are doing a lot more than others you mentioned - a lot more. I'm not going to drop names or make a big deal out of it because I don't derive my business from EO or some social networking thing. Don't forget where my connections are as I explained them and they seem to keep me well informed and educated more so, so it is why I have become more diversified and will be more in the next coming year - how about you?

With that being said Greg, not everyone runs a business the same way as you Greg.

I know that, but what's the point ... this thread isn't about telling anyone any different way of running a business but it seems that many here are saying the same thing as I - they don't like the term. I, like those are offering a differing opinion which I understand from the angle of your posts, you don't like that idea of having the differing opinion.

Outside of that, I don't like to be part of the cattle in the yard.

I know you mean well, but you need to STOP trying to tell people how to run their business. We are all not dumb and we didn't get to where we are because we are dumb.

Well first I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their business - and why bring it up again? - I am offering another point of view but this time I will repeat the same point - I am not alone on this subject. I also know most who read this understand that I am not trying to point out stupid crap, you seem to be doing that yourself.

You post things like " You just don't get what MOST people are saying " it very insulting to people.

Actually Dave, this was directed to you without any other way to put it. You missed the entire point that many are saying the same exact thing as I am but you didn't get that If it is insulting to others, then maybe they need to rethink what was said. But regardless, I am not going to mince words or worry about feelings when I am making a point about how terms are used, misused or outdated - which the subject word is misused.

Some won't say anything to you because you like to attack everything that they may say. Like you do with Ateam. This just happens to be one of the few times that you agreed with Phil.

OK I don't care, been beaten up before and p*ssed off people who ran away but I can't care. I can repeat that for you if you don't get it.

As for Phil, and the "attacks" for some really odd reason you seem to forget what is going on so I won't get into that and spare others the history BUT I came to the conclusion what you seem to do is to make a big deal out of nothing when you can't come up with anything other than a defense for your posts.

Now, I will say it again Greg. You have a lot to offer to the members of EO, but your always right way of posting is getting old.

Really?

Let's see ...

I do pretty well with my writing style, I must remind myself this is a forum and nothing more than that when I'm writing posts. The style of writing is sometimes abrupt, sometimes lacks the sympathy that others have and sometimes comes across as authoritarian but ... so?

If it is getting old, maybe it is because you can't deal with it or because others are not reading the posts?

Don't know and really don't care.

I don't see why you have to bring this up when I made a simple statement and than you get all bent about it then have to open another thread to make you feel good about what was said here when you know a few members and I are right about what you asked.

It is like the picture contest thread that you won, you accused me of calling out Lawrence and that's not what happened from my point of view. I asked a simple question - I looked on the map for RT 24 and could not find it but I could find US 24 and CR 424 and so on. You posted a picture of a truck stop in Ohio after YOU said it was in Indiana. I asked because I don't like ambiguity, my thing is if I'm driving on that road, it would be nice to know where the place is but you got all defensive and then incredulous about the issue. Do you accept loads that say "pick up in Lordstown and take it to Detroit" without knowing what is going on the truck or who the shipper is?

Here is another example - http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/general-expediter-forum/51148-not-exactly-electronic-log.html

See Dave, I have been testing these things out and got to tell you I offered some info that others didn't - you didn't (didn't provide links to anything (google is a wonderful thing but...) also didn't add anything that wasn't subject centric or told anyone how to run their business. You should read the post and think about how it is written and what info is there.

Lets just say you run your business one way and I run mine another way. It's not a bad thing, if we all did the same things in life, life would be boring. Now isn't life great here in the United States of America that we have the freedom to run our business's different than each other. Be safe out on the road if your still driving over the road.

I'm still trying to figure out what you are talking about, I guess someone will have to explain it to all of us.

 

[Bruno]

Yep it is a term that has no real place here because most of us do not operate out of the same location and many use the term to indicate cheaper or rather less than profitable loads to move the truck. A lot of people, I think you are one of them who said it was cheap freight so where am I wrong?



Yep I sure do, and amazingly there are a lot of people operating like this. One thing that you didn't get before but since you were explained what I was saying, you now do this?



You didn't point out much and if you think I'm changing my tune, think again. I am saying that you, the truck owner/driver is cutting yourself short by allowing the company to tell you to move without fully compensating you for the move. What that means is say your company asks you to move from St Louis to Atlanta, it should be a move at your full rate, not a relocation rate. The cost of running the truck is no different whether it is loaded or not. SO your company can look for a load that gets you to Atlanta or pay you a full rate if they need in Atlanta but most of them will never do that.



That was then this is now. IF you are comparing the loads then to today, then that's a problem you need to work out because this industry and the world is a lot different. AND why worry about the drivers, are they that lazy to put up with customs and get past it like thousands of other drivers do every day.



I think Phil's point is that it has ZERO to do with a worn out cliche but rather the business practices that he and others have. What I mean is that he looks for loads, not partial loads or loads that pay marginal rates without compensation - as in if he can take three loads at a $1.20 a mile to go somewhere within his criteria, then he will take it. If it is not one that fills his needs than nope it is a no go for those loads. He knows exactly what I am talking about as he now is experiencing the same exact way I have been operating for the past four years. Maybe you should operate like that for a bit?

As for Say No to Cheap Freight, I had an interesting discussion with a Canadian "expediter" yesterday and it seems that the problem with cheap freight is that everyone seems to accept the $1.50 a mile plus FSC as a good rate and this allows the shipper to fish for cheaper rates. In other words, if you accept that $1.50 a mile, you are part of the problem - not the solution. In this business, a truck should not move for less than $2 a mile base rate when it is leased onto one of th big carriers - regardless what some say.



I have met a lot of people with business passion, and excluding Dave, I can tell you that those who have taught me about this industry are doing a lot more than others you mentioned - a lot more. I'm not going to drop names or make a big deal out of it because I don't derive my business from EO or some social networking thing. Don't forget where my connections are as I explained them and they seem to keep me well informed and educated more so, so it is why I have become more diversified and will be more in the next coming year - how about you?



I know that, but what's the point ... this thread isn't about telling anyone any different way of running a business but it seems that many here are saying the same thing as I - they don't like the term. I, like those are offering a differing opinion which I understand from the angle of your posts, you don't like that idea of having the differing opinion.

Outside of that, I don't like to be part of the cattle in the yard.



Well first I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their business - and why bring it up again? - I am offering another point of view but this time I will repeat the same point - I am not alone on this subject. I also know most who read this understand that I am not trying to point out stupid crap, you seem to be doing that yourself.



Actually Dave, this was directed to you without any other way to put it. You missed the entire point that many are saying the same exact thing as I am but you didn't get that If it is insulting to others, then maybe they need to rethink what was said. But regardless, I am not going to mince words or worry about feelings when I am making a point about how terms are used, misused or outdated - which the subject word is misused.



OK I don't care, been beaten up before and p*ssed off people who ran away but I can't care. I can repeat that for you if you don't get it.

As for Phil, and the "attacks" for some really odd reason you seem to forget what is going on so I won't get into that and spare others the history BUT I came to the conclusion what you seem to do is to make a big deal out of nothing when you can't come up with anything other than a defense for your posts.



Really?

Let's see ...

I do pretty well with my writing style, I must remind myself this is a forum and nothing more than that when I'm writing posts. The style of writing is sometimes abrupt, sometimes lacks the sympathy that others have and sometimes comes across as authoritarian but ... so?

If it is getting old, maybe it is because you can't deal with it or because others are not reading the posts?

Don't know and really don't care.

I don't see why you have to bring this up when I made a simple statement and than you get all bent about it then have to open another thread to make you feel good about what was said here when you know a few members and I are right about what you asked.

It is like the picture contest thread that you won, you accused me of calling out Lawrence and that's not what happened from my point of view. I asked a simple question - I looked on the map for RT 24 and could not find it but I could find US 24 and CR 424 and so on. You posted a picture of a truck stop in Ohio after YOU said it was in Indiana. I asked because I don't like ambiguity, my thing is if I'm driving on that road, it would be nice to know where the place is but you got all defensive and then incredulous about the issue. Do you accept loads that say "pick up in Lordstown and take it to Detroit" without knowing what is going on the truck or who the shipper is?

Here is another example - http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/general-expediter-forum/51148-not-exactly-electronic-log.html

See Dave, I have been testing these things out and got to tell you I offered some info that others didn't - you didn't (didn't provide links to anything (google is a wonderful thing but...) also didn't add anything that wasn't subject centric or told anyone how to run their business. You should read the post and think about how it is written and what info is there.



I'm still trying to figure out what you are talking about, I guess someone will have to explain it to all of us.

You mean just you Greg.


Did that make you feel better Greg. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself, you don't have to prove anything to me or anyone else. As far as what we do you can think what ever you want as to what we do. I know what we have been doing since I started back in 1995. Now If you think that we are crazy enough to deadhead or empty move our trucks hundreds of miles your wrong, because we don't. Now I don't care what you or others do Greg and I'm happy if your doing well. Not everyone has to post what they make or how they run their business. That is all I'm saying Greg. Also when I'm looking for a load for one of our trucks it's starts out at $2.50 per mile if you must know. I know how to run a business and this is not a contest to see who does the most money Greg. I'm not here to toot my own horn, just help others if I can. Others have helped me on things, even you helped me when your not about who's doing things right and who is doing things wrong.

Greg, I hope you and your wife have a Happy Thanksgiving and be safe IF your out on the road.