That would be my thought. If someone had been lurking 9 to 10 years as claimed, they would have had the answer to this years ago.
- Status
That would be my thought. If someone had been lurking 9 to 10 years as claimed, they would have had the answer to this years ago.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
I guess since you put this in bold letters, then my gut feeling has been right on target. Thus, another reason I finally decided to join.
I can't remember EVERYTHING that has gone on here on this website over the last 9-10 years. If something did go on within EO and those guys, it doesn't ring a bell at all. I do think it's kind of odd though that company that runs under 2-3-4 different names is out there on their own and not associated with this site in any shape or from.
But, under more reasonable thinking, Yes, there is a reason why the dozens of big named expediting companies are here working together and that one company is not. I think my odds would be better keeping up with the companies that are here over that one renegade company that's out there in lala land on their own. Know what I mean.
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Brisco
Expert Expediter
??Independent Expeditor??
As in trying to get out there in the "expediting territory" and obtaining customers on my own with just a cargo van?
OR.....
Try to do what that guy did here a 3-4 months ago. Buy a CV and contract it out with 4-5 different expediting companies on his own?
That guys thread did catch my attention with what he was up to. But, he was being very vague on his background and what he was doing to make it work.
My opinion, he was either a dispatcher, a freight finder, or a freight broker for one of the major players here who was taking his knowledge on how to "find freight" and then sending the freight he was finding on his own to one of the 4-5 companies he was working with and dispatching it under their authorities and such. I'm probably wrong, but very close in the same sense.
I'd appreciate any advice and information on "Independent Expediting" with a cargo van Greg. I may join your fan club after all.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well if you read all of that for years, then you have it covered and don't need my advice.
However it is puzzling, and you may have your reasons but why worry about driving for a company when you have the knowledge to be an independent owner from the experience alone. It seems that the effort of finding some company is greater than striking out on your own.
However it is puzzling, and you may have your reasons but why worry about driving for a company when you have the knowledge to be an independent owner from the experience alone. It seems that the effort of finding some company is greater than striking out on your own.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
Ahhhh, OK, I see what you were trying to ask. IMO, I don't think I would have that much of a chance at actually surviving in an industry that I have never actually gained any "Real Time" experience in and in an area I have not worked in yet.
In other words, how could any of these shippers up there in the North/Northeast that have been dealing with "Expediting" companies for years and years ever take a little guy from Texas with just a Cargo Van who has never expedited before seriously when he comes knocking on their door seeking them as a customer? Plus, expenses would be tremendous the first year or 2 if someone from Texas ever did give such a venture a try.
Now, I had almost this same discussion on one of my other boards just 3-4 months ago when I was thinking about running a 14-16ft Box Truck for Shippers out of the DFW area.
Here is part of that conversation I had with many "LTL" guys there. My answers and thoughts came from my experiences and from knowing how freight companies worked in this DFW area along with a realistic view of what I might be up against if I tryed to get out on my own on such a venture:
And another part of that conversation:
This is just part of a 3-4 page conversation I started up on my other board. Learned valuable information there as I am learning here. I have not abandoned that idea just yet, but it definately will not happen tomorrow. Know what I mean. Freight is just not out there.
I would be looking at a huge ordeal that has failure written all over it if I attempted to chart my energies not only in an industry I have not worked in yet, but also in a territorial area I know nothing about.
Now, to this inquiry you made, "and you may have your reasons but why worry about driving for a company."
Well, I don't know. Ya know. That's been a deep thought I have had for years.
I hate to keep having these loooooong conversations, but I'll keep this one short, OK.
Before I got into the "Contract Driving" industry, I owned and operated an "Auto Paint & Body Shop", a collision center. I had 12-15 employees on the payroll at all times, a dozen insurance companies I did work for, dozens of side commercial companies I did work for, so on. For 7 years my mind was focused on my business 18-20 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. When I had the opportunity to sell that business to 3 of my employees who had been with me ever since I first opened it up, I jumped on that chance without any hesitation. I still remember sitting in that Bankers office the day he handed me that 6 figure check thinking to myself, Never Again.
Never Again to me meant that I would never get myself into the position to where I would have to answer to so many people when it came to conducting business and making a living.
If I were to ever get out their on my own as a start up Independent Expeditor and that venture just happened to grow and grow, I would be in the same ulcer/headache ridden boat that I was in back then. Ask any "Fleet Owner" here, he'll tell you the same thing. If they get a chance to walk away "ahead" of the game, I guarentee each and every one of them would.
I have been comfortable with the smaller "Contracts" I have been able to get here within the DFW area and I have just had to answer to 1 maybe 2 people at a time with those contracts too.
Driving for an expediting company, or any other delivery company, and having them find my deliveries for me would suit me just fine. I answer to one dispatcher, and the rest of the "getting the delivery process done" will be all on my shoulders from there on out. I won't to have worry about billing, setting up the delivery, multiple calls looking for deliverys, past due accounts, collecting, yada yada yada. Know what I mean. All I would have to say to the customers is "Yeah, IT IS A GREAT DAY, ISN'T IT? Sign here please............." And that right there makes a huge difference not only in a mans health, but also his mindset.
Good question Greg. Hope my answer helped.
Can't say I agree with this statement. We have had many opportunities to walk away on the plus but chose not to. We actually like the business. We have two other non-trucking businesses that we have been involved in for a long time, and our opinion of those is the same as well. If we didn't like it, we wouldn't do it.
We aren't in a position that "we have to".
As for shopping "customers", most in a van that operate with their own authority, are obtaining the majority of their freight from other carriers. That can be both good and bad depending on many things. You will find many posts with that information. They already have established that relationship. There of course a few exceptions, but not many when talking about vans.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
Now, if you tell me the thought has never crossed your mind in the "24" years you have listed in your sig, then I have 2 words for you:
"JOE WILSON!!!"
Maybe the offers to "walk away" came during the times you were in your "we actually like the business" moods. But I bet there were probably also times when that inkling was there to just "Get Out" of the trucking business.
Don't worry, it's part of the nature of a business owner. And don't worry if you wish to deny it too. That's just part of mankind. Man just hates to be called out on an issue he has been called out on.
Yeah, I have read about "Current and Experienced" Expeditors that have gotten out there on their own. Even a Cargo Van driver or two. But, that's what would put me behind the pack if I wanted to be an "Independent" expeditor right from the get go. I don't have the "hands on experience" nor am I "currently" an expeditor. My opinion, that's just not an option on the table whatsoever.
Besides, if I truly wanted such a headache as this would bring about, I'd just run out tomorrow and write a check for a Dodge 4500 off the lot. Run down the street and get me a 40ft GN Trailer. Obtain the insurance needed to file for my own Authority, and work with brokers and the load boards running LTL freight out of Texas and surrounding states.
Nah, I'd rather just get me a nice Chevrolet 3500 with a 12ft spartan box to stay under 10K. Keep 8ft for freight, and build out the other 4X8X7high into a really nice stand up sleeper. Then equip it with a nice HD TV with Direct TV, a Sat/GPS 7" screen set up in the dash, thick custom bucket seats, portable shower in the back, porta potty, and so on, and go make deliveries all across the country.
It's not going to happen tomorrow, that much I know. If and When? That part I do not know.
My ears are burning!
Doggie Daddy
Veteran Expediter
Well Briscoe with all that "stuff" in your cube van and wanting to stay under 10K you wont be able to put in enough freight to make it worth anyone's time or effort to put you in their fleet.Just sayin.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
?????
There are Sprinter Vans with full Bunk Set-ups such as this running all over the NE as Expeditors under 10K.
A 12ft Spartan is not a "Box" Truck.
Overview - Chevy/GMC Spartan Cargo Van - Supreme's Delivery Van | Van Bodies | Supreme Corporation
Plenty of room to have a comfortable bunk set up in and still carry 2 "Tall" pallets up to 2500-3000 lbs. Same heighth as a Sprinter. GVWR at 9600. Absolutely no difference than a Sprinter only less expensive to maintain and will last 3-4 times longer than a Sprinter.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK...
a 159" cutaway GVW is 9600 unless you order the 10k chassis and those are hard to find (oh unless it is used)
Curb weight for the chassis comes in about 5600lbs (thank you GM), a little more for the 55 gallon option (60lbs plus 160lbs in fuel) and a little less without power anything. This is also the single rear wheel chassis. Dually adds about 200lbs more.
The box - say you get the 12 foot Spartan, that weighs 1586lbs in standard configuration but let's say 1600. That's for the 72 inch high box, but you are looking at 84 inch so add another 120lbs.
So.... 5600 plus 1720 = 7320lbs right there.
If you have a 10K chassis, then ok you got 2680 to spare but if you have the 9600lb chassis, well that's 2280.
OK now let's look at the weight of the necessary stuff....
E track sections weigh in at 16lbs per 10 feet or 1.6 lbs a foot. With 12 feet you need 19.2 lbs of E track for each one in the truck or if you are like most and have 4 E track setup, then that is 76.8 lbs.
And of course straps will come in at 15 lbs. and if you use wood sockets and 2X4s, that is another 8 to 10 pounds.
Oh lets not forget about the plywood, many people put down plywood on the floor to protect the floor, ah never mind.... it is too much trouble putting a floor down on top of a floor.
Now the fun stuff. I took the upper end weights.
That nice HD TV is 15 lbs with mounting bracket.
the Direct TV unit and the dish with mounts most likely will come in at 25lbs - unless you get one of them fancy Vue cubes and that is well 38 lbs.
Sat/GPS 7" screen set up in the dash well thats another 5 lbs.
Thick custom bucket seats, ok I am going to guess on this one... custom who? figure 40 to 60 lbs extra for the seats, mounts.
That portable shower in the back, another 20 lbs (don't forget water)
The porta potty (never leave home without it) 20 to 40lbs depending on the liquid and solid transfers you make but let's go with the top number.
You may notice that I haven't mentioned a bed, or personal items which normally that all comes in around 100lbs.
Nor did I mention a power source for all of this, normally 2 extra batteries at 80 lbs.
And last is a spare tire (80 lbs), safety equipment (20lbs) and tools (50 lbs)
Now all of that comes about 575 lbs! and I didn't get to the electric stuff to hook up the 'sleeper'.
But that doesn't include you, the driver which I will use my weight - 250 fat lbs.
So let's recap;
The 159" 9600 chassis with 55 gal tank single rear wheel comes in at 5820
The 12 Supreme Spartan with 84" height comes in at 1720
All of the stuff, fun and otherwise plus personal cr*p comes in at 575
The driver at 250
This comes to 8365
And with 9600lb GVW, it leaves you with 1235 lbs.
after all of that...
1- if I am wrong about any numbers tell me. The chassis numbers are from GM, they differ from the publish sales numbers because they are actual weights - I rounded them for simplicity. Supreme gave me the box numbers for their standard box without outfitting the options, it is a plain 12 foot box with barn doors and an top hat.
2 - The different between a sprinter and this set up is the sprinter is lighter by at least 1000 lbs if 1500 lbs, Turtle or Piper or someone else can tell me an exact curb weight. The difference is between a simple engineered sheet metal shell and a complex fiberglass reinforced plywood shell.
and Finally, if I am missing something, tell me.
a 159" cutaway GVW is 9600 unless you order the 10k chassis and those are hard to find (oh unless it is used)
Curb weight for the chassis comes in about 5600lbs (thank you GM), a little more for the 55 gallon option (60lbs plus 160lbs in fuel) and a little less without power anything. This is also the single rear wheel chassis. Dually adds about 200lbs more.
The box - say you get the 12 foot Spartan, that weighs 1586lbs in standard configuration but let's say 1600. That's for the 72 inch high box, but you are looking at 84 inch so add another 120lbs.
So.... 5600 plus 1720 = 7320lbs right there.
If you have a 10K chassis, then ok you got 2680 to spare but if you have the 9600lb chassis, well that's 2280.
OK now let's look at the weight of the necessary stuff....
E track sections weigh in at 16lbs per 10 feet or 1.6 lbs a foot. With 12 feet you need 19.2 lbs of E track for each one in the truck or if you are like most and have 4 E track setup, then that is 76.8 lbs.
And of course straps will come in at 15 lbs. and if you use wood sockets and 2X4s, that is another 8 to 10 pounds.
Oh lets not forget about the plywood, many people put down plywood on the floor to protect the floor, ah never mind.... it is too much trouble putting a floor down on top of a floor.
Now the fun stuff. I took the upper end weights.
That nice HD TV is 15 lbs with mounting bracket.
the Direct TV unit and the dish with mounts most likely will come in at 25lbs - unless you get one of them fancy Vue cubes and that is well 38 lbs.
Sat/GPS 7" screen set up in the dash well thats another 5 lbs.
Thick custom bucket seats, ok I am going to guess on this one... custom who? figure 40 to 60 lbs extra for the seats, mounts.
That portable shower in the back, another 20 lbs (don't forget water)
The porta potty (never leave home without it) 20 to 40lbs depending on the liquid and solid transfers you make but let's go with the top number.
You may notice that I haven't mentioned a bed, or personal items which normally that all comes in around 100lbs.
Nor did I mention a power source for all of this, normally 2 extra batteries at 80 lbs.
And last is a spare tire (80 lbs), safety equipment (20lbs) and tools (50 lbs)
Now all of that comes about 575 lbs! and I didn't get to the electric stuff to hook up the 'sleeper'.
But that doesn't include you, the driver which I will use my weight - 250 fat lbs.
So let's recap;
The 159" 9600 chassis with 55 gal tank single rear wheel comes in at 5820
The 12 Supreme Spartan with 84" height comes in at 1720
All of the stuff, fun and otherwise plus personal cr*p comes in at 575
The driver at 250
This comes to 8365
And with 9600lb GVW, it leaves you with 1235 lbs.
after all of that...
1- if I am wrong about any numbers tell me. The chassis numbers are from GM, they differ from the publish sales numbers because they are actual weights - I rounded them for simplicity. Supreme gave me the box numbers for their standard box without outfitting the options, it is a plain 12 foot box with barn doors and an top hat.
2 - The different between a sprinter and this set up is the sprinter is lighter by at least 1000 lbs if 1500 lbs, Turtle or Piper or someone else can tell me an exact curb weight. The difference is between a simple engineered sheet metal shell and a complex fiberglass reinforced plywood shell.
and Finally, if I am missing something, tell me.
Doggie Daddy
Veteran Expediter
I guess I had my terminology wrong by calling it a cube van (I'm not a vannie) but I felt confident enough from reading past posts here to know with what he wants in it that it was gonna be heavy.
I also have a problem with the statement that it will be cheaper to maintain than a Sprinter and last 3-4 times longer.
I also have a problem with the statement that it will be cheaper to maintain than a Sprinter and last 3-4 times longer.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
Hahaha.......
I kind of expected a "Theoritical Formula" from Greg when it came to what the weights might be if such a truck was built with a 12ft Spartan.
That's cool though, it's a learning process. Know what I mean.
First, PJJJJ, I had the single rear axle figured in with such a truck. That 12K bolded set up above is for the dual rear axle. There's not too many "Dual Axled" Spartans out there in a 12ft length. Most of the dual axled Spartans are 14-16ft and do look like a "Box" truck.
Greg's formula is good "Guesstimate", but does have a few flaws here and there. Kill the "250 lbs" for this driver. You can take 70 lbs off that, OK. (Haha) But that's a good issue to keep in mind if I was to build a truck like this and were to sell it to a 250 lb driver somewhere down the road. The E-Track weight is off. If I were to build the bunk in it, I'd only need 16ft of e-track. If I were to put custom bucket seats in it, old seats would come out eliminating their weight. I wouldn't have 4 seats up there. Stock radio would come out, and so on.
My idea of the perfect "B" unit above would be no different than the many other "Cargo Vans" out there I have seen that have had bunks built in them, inverters with 2 extra batteries put back there, fridges, microwaves, TV's, shelving built all the way down the walls on both sides, extra plywood added to the floors to have the e-track on the floor, so on, so on, so on.
I have actually seen a couple E-350 Vans (1 a Fedex CC driver) that were probably over their GVWR when loaded due to how much stuff they had built into their trucks to be able to live "comfortably" on the road for weeks at a time. So to break things down like that is basically a moot point when it comes to what some these drivers have built into their trucks as they learn how to be more comfortable out there on the road for an extended period of time.
Plus, how many "Cargo Van" drivers here have you heard from that said "Oh Man, I got an overweight ticket at the Kentucky Scale last night"??? Or, "I was pulled over yesterday outside Kansas City by a Kansas State Trooper and I got nailed when he pulled his portable scales out and weighed my truck"?? Sure, these Cargo Van drivers may be running 500-1000 lbs over their GVWR every once in a while, but I almost guarentee not a one has ever had damage done to their trucks or to their pocketbooks for doing so.
But, Greg did give good advice and I am not "mooting" it out the door. One does have to find a balance between "Technical Advice" and "Reality" when they're out there in the truck they choose to operate with.
I know there's a lot of Sprinter drivers here. It was a big deal when these things first hit the market 8-9 years ago. But, I am just NOT a fan of the Sprinter. I have ridden in them many times, I have driven one or 2 over the years, and I just do not like them. IMO, best thing the Sprinter has going for it is the MPG's.
The way the drivers seat sits up makes it uncomfortable to drive. The angle of the steering wheel to the drivers seat makes one have to be basically "upright" at all times to drive one. I like to be comfortable when going down the road for hours and hours at a time. If I wanted to sit "straight up" and stay focused on one thing for hours and hours, I'd go sit on a Church Pew during a 12 hour preachin' telethon. Plus, they're Tin Cans in the way they're built. I'd rather build me a house with a thousands of used "Corn/Green Bean/Pinto Bean" cans than I would with used "Coke/Pepsi/Dr Pepper" cans, and that's a great example when comparing the quantity of steel used between your basic Express/Econoline Cargo Van and a Sprinter. Sure, they're lightweight vehicles, but Gawd forbid if one ever gets into a serious accident in one. It'd be like stomping on an aluminum can, know what I mean.
Maintenance Costs??? Ridiculous. There's stories right here on this board about what drivers have spent to keep their Sprinters running. On top of that, they're 30-40-50% higher in price over a good Chevrolet/Ford Cargo Van?? Again, ridiculous.
Longetivity?? They're 300-400K mile "Throw-Away" vehicles, if that. Many drivers here have had their Sprinters "Melt Down" after 200-300K miles and the costs alone to have them repaired would cover a good 30% down for new one.
If Dodge/Freightliner/Mercedes, or whoever owns them this year, next year, haha, would just beef up the frame, the suspension, and the overall construction of the body itself, and then put a Cummins 5.9 or 6.7 under the hood, then the "PERFECT" million mile or two "low maintenance" Cargo Van would be invented.
Again, these are my opinions and I am not saying them to get under the skin of the many Sprinter owners here, OK. Just airing my thoughts out on them. How many Sprinters are in the "Million Mile Club"?? The "500K Mile Club"??? And so on...........
Brisco
I kind of expected a "Theoritical Formula" from Greg when it came to what the weights might be if such a truck was built with a 12ft Spartan.
That's cool though, it's a learning process. Know what I mean.
First, PJJJJ, I had the single rear axle figured in with such a truck. That 12K bolded set up above is for the dual rear axle. There's not too many "Dual Axled" Spartans out there in a 12ft length. Most of the dual axled Spartans are 14-16ft and do look like a "Box" truck.
Greg's formula is good "Guesstimate", but does have a few flaws here and there. Kill the "250 lbs" for this driver. You can take 70 lbs off that, OK. (Haha) But that's a good issue to keep in mind if I was to build a truck like this and were to sell it to a 250 lb driver somewhere down the road. The E-Track weight is off. If I were to build the bunk in it, I'd only need 16ft of e-track. If I were to put custom bucket seats in it, old seats would come out eliminating their weight. I wouldn't have 4 seats up there. Stock radio would come out, and so on.
My idea of the perfect "B" unit above would be no different than the many other "Cargo Vans" out there I have seen that have had bunks built in them, inverters with 2 extra batteries put back there, fridges, microwaves, TV's, shelving built all the way down the walls on both sides, extra plywood added to the floors to have the e-track on the floor, so on, so on, so on.
I have actually seen a couple E-350 Vans (1 a Fedex CC driver) that were probably over their GVWR when loaded due to how much stuff they had built into their trucks to be able to live "comfortably" on the road for weeks at a time. So to break things down like that is basically a moot point when it comes to what some these drivers have built into their trucks as they learn how to be more comfortable out there on the road for an extended period of time.
Plus, how many "Cargo Van" drivers here have you heard from that said "Oh Man, I got an overweight ticket at the Kentucky Scale last night"??? Or, "I was pulled over yesterday outside Kansas City by a Kansas State Trooper and I got nailed when he pulled his portable scales out and weighed my truck"?? Sure, these Cargo Van drivers may be running 500-1000 lbs over their GVWR every once in a while, but I almost guarentee not a one has ever had damage done to their trucks or to their pocketbooks for doing so.
But, Greg did give good advice and I am not "mooting" it out the door. One does have to find a balance between "Technical Advice" and "Reality" when they're out there in the truck they choose to operate with.
I know there's a lot of Sprinter drivers here. It was a big deal when these things first hit the market 8-9 years ago. But, I am just NOT a fan of the Sprinter. I have ridden in them many times, I have driven one or 2 over the years, and I just do not like them. IMO, best thing the Sprinter has going for it is the MPG's.
The way the drivers seat sits up makes it uncomfortable to drive. The angle of the steering wheel to the drivers seat makes one have to be basically "upright" at all times to drive one. I like to be comfortable when going down the road for hours and hours at a time. If I wanted to sit "straight up" and stay focused on one thing for hours and hours, I'd go sit on a Church Pew during a 12 hour preachin' telethon. Plus, they're Tin Cans in the way they're built. I'd rather build me a house with a thousands of used "Corn/Green Bean/Pinto Bean" cans than I would with used "Coke/Pepsi/Dr Pepper" cans, and that's a great example when comparing the quantity of steel used between your basic Express/Econoline Cargo Van and a Sprinter. Sure, they're lightweight vehicles, but Gawd forbid if one ever gets into a serious accident in one. It'd be like stomping on an aluminum can, know what I mean.
Maintenance Costs??? Ridiculous. There's stories right here on this board about what drivers have spent to keep their Sprinters running. On top of that, they're 30-40-50% higher in price over a good Chevrolet/Ford Cargo Van?? Again, ridiculous.
Longetivity?? They're 300-400K mile "Throw-Away" vehicles, if that. Many drivers here have had their Sprinters "Melt Down" after 200-300K miles and the costs alone to have them repaired would cover a good 30% down for new one.
If Dodge/Freightliner/Mercedes, or whoever owns them this year, next year, haha, would just beef up the frame, the suspension, and the overall construction of the body itself, and then put a Cummins 5.9 or 6.7 under the hood, then the "PERFECT" million mile or two "low maintenance" Cargo Van would be invented.
Again, these are my opinions and I am not saying them to get under the skin of the many Sprinter owners here, OK. Just airing my thoughts out on them. How many Sprinters are in the "Million Mile Club"?? The "500K Mile Club"??? And so on...........
Brisco
Brisco
Expert Expediter
I believe Greg showed a good "curb weight" guesstimate above.
But, I went ahead and looked anyway. Can't find any specifics on the GM website when it comes to a single rear wheel 3500 Express Cut-Away chassis cab with the 6.0 V8.
A few months ago I had a 2008 Dodge 4500 108' (9ft cab to axle) C&C with the 6.7 Cummins and Aisiin 6 speed auto spec'd out. The truck was fully loaded with all power options too. That trucks "Dry Weight" was 7195 on the ground. So, a Chevrolet Express C&C with just the 6.0, smaller frame & suspension, smaller cab and hood area, shouldn't be no more than 5500 tops. Add around 1500 lbs for the 12ft box, you'd probably be looking at around 7-7500 maximum weight on the ground easily giving a hauling weight of 2500-3000 lbs for both personal stuff and freight.
Hope this helps and finally answers your question, again.
Brisco
- Status