Modern Life In Appalachia

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Why don't you expand your mind.
Not having female priests is a lame example. I mentioned it to someone and she spit out her coffee in laughter. She is involved with the church. The way she put it, the women pretty much run the show in church. From music directors to the council. They are in charge of everything. Some wouldn't know that though, because they don't 'observe them in action' . So they maintain their ignorance.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Why don't you expand your mind. Not having female priests is a lame example.
Ahhh ... because you say so ?

I mentioned it to someone and she spit out her coffee in laughter. She is involved with the church. The way she put it, the women pretty much run the show in church. From music directors to the council. They are in charge of everything.
Not quite ...

BTW - it seems you are equating subservience with ... total exclusion ...

Ain't the same thing ...

Some wouldn't know that though, because they don't 'observe them in action' . So they maintain their ignorance.
Undoubtedly true, I'm sure ... in some cases ...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Why don't you expand your mind.
Not having female priests is a lame example. I mentioned it to someone and she spit out her coffee in laughter. She is involved with the church. The way she put it, the women pretty much run the show in church. From music directors to the council. They are in charge of everything. Some wouldn't know that though, because they don't 'observe them in action' . So they maintain their ignorance.

I don't doubt that women "pretty much run the show", just like secretaries pretty much run the office, but they don't get the paychecks, authority, or respect a man would get in their place.
When the church wants to buy or sell property, or hire a new minister, who has the final say?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, they are denounced as my being a true Christian, and they publicly repudiated because a Christian will flat throw another Christian under the bus out of fear of being associated with that particular flavor of Christian fervor.
OK - so Christians apparently have the freedom to disagree with one another without having a fatwah declared. Maybe there's some freedom of speech involved, or civilized discourse allowed.
There are plenty of Christians who sat back in silent agreement with Westboro, for example. A very few even agreed in public. At least two did so right here on these forum boards.
How do you know "there are plenty of Christians who sat back in silent agreement", considering they did so in silence? Reading minds on a global scale must be rare gift. "A few even agreed in public"...at least TWO on the forum?? Insignificant hardly qualifies as the proper adjective.
I dunno. I guess it depends on where you look. I heard and read plenty of comments from mainstream Muslims denouncing Islamic radicals and terrorists actions.
Examples please? Significant examples to be precise, perhaps from high level Muslim leaders speaking or writing for the international MSM.
I haven't seen Christian mobs in those numbers protest against the atrocities of Christian groups, either, but Christians certainly protested in very large numbers against the building of a mosque a few blocks away from Ground Zero.
They sure did - due to an act of war against our homeland. But that hardly compares to Muslims rioting in the streets and threatening death to those who published some cartoons they didn't like.
This may come as a shock to you, but life, attitudes and cultures in other countries are often very different from that of the United States. Then again, we have our own Christian radicals that are tolerated by the US government, religious leaders and mainstream Christians.
It may come as a shock to you that the USA has a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of speech - thus, the tolerance of radicals. Unlike Sharia, it doesn't condone murder, mutilation and torture of those who might offend Islam.

In summary, let's try to bring this conversation back to the original subject matter. Comparing the treatment and abuse of Muslim women to that of Southern women is absurd. Statistics prove the rate of women's abuse is not concentrated geographically, as shown in my previous post.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
We have EO members glad to besmirch an entire region of the United States as wife-beaters??? Now, that is low class. Very low.
Actually, no, as no one here has done that. Clearly, you think "abuse" only refers to the physical. We do, however, have EO members glad to besmirch an entire world religion as barbaric. That's not low class, it's no class.

People all over this country read EO. Including shippers, receivers, freight brokers, load planners, dispatchers, owner-operators, even CEO's of corporations shipping expedited freight. If I were a Southern male reading this scandalous BS, I would be outraged. I would notice a well known EO representative whose every post carries the Load-1 banner is leading the charge to denigrate the South and Appalachia.
You've done far more to denigrate the South and Appalachia than anyone here. You keep posting in a manner that reinforces the stereotype. You've also insulted other members, and if that wasn't bad enough, you've now tried to insult me with fabricated lies which are easily refuted by simply reading this thread. That smacks of emotional desperation. Bringing "I'm telling mommy and daddy" into it to stomp your feet and get your way is just infantile. Like Cheri said, you went from high character and thick skin to crying like a little girl in record time.

Your posts on Muslims are bigoted, inflammatory and trolling. I do love a good irony.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Whooped de do, so there isn't any female priests. That example doesn't mean women are sub servant .
Actually, because they aren't allowed by men to be priests, that's exactly what it means. Well, subservient, anyway, and not sub servant.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Why don't you expand your mind.
Not having female priests is a lame example. I mentioned it to someone and she spit out her coffee in laughter.
An excellent example of someone convinced their chains are jewelry.

She is involved with the church. The way she put it, the women pretty much run the show in church. From music directors to the council. They are in charge of everything. Some wouldn't know that though, because they don't 'observe them in action' . So they maintain their ignorance.
They are in charge of precisely what men allow. Women are delegated tasks and positions which men do not want, and are given only as much authority as is necessary to keep the church going and the offerings coming in. This, of course, isn't necessarily true of all churches, but it is nonetheless a broad general truth. Anything else goes against the teaching of the Bible.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
OK - so Christians apparently have the freedom to disagree with one another without having a fatwah declared. Maybe there's some freedom of speech involved, or civilized discourse allowed.
Holy decrees from the Pope notwithstanding, yes, Christians and Muslims are different in many ways. However, most Muslims are about as Muslim as Christians are Christian.

How do you know "there are plenty of Christians who sat back in silent agreement", considering they did so in silence?
I know and understand human nature. No matter how ridiculous the notion, regardless of what it is, somebody else out there somewhere will agree with it.

Reading minds on a global scale must be rare gift.
It is, and it's awesome.

"A few even agreed in public"...at least TWO on the forum?? Insignificant hardly qualifies as the proper adjective.
I dunno. Two seems to me to be fairly significant, considering people in large numbers are not going to come out publicly in support of such a hated group as Westboro.

Examples please? Significant examples to be precise, perhaps from high level Muslim leaders speaking or writing for the international MSM.
You claim that these radical Muslims "are simply accepted or tolerated by Islamic governments, religious leaders and mainstream Muslims," yet now you want to restrict my response to that significant examples from high level Muslims leaders, and not only that, but those who are speaking or writing for the international mainstream media? That's a pretty tall task, don't you think? A Muslim cleric gives a speech in a Mosque deploring terrorism, but because he wasn't speaking for the MSM it doesn't count? Is that how it works? A Muslim is asked a question by a mainstream reporter about Islamic radicals and they respond with condemnation for the radical, and that's not good enough? OK then. You asked for examples, plural, so I need to know the exact number of examples which will satisfy you, keeping in mind that several such examples have been posted to these boards in the past in response to the very same assertion that Muslim leaders fail denounce radical Mulsims. Once you arrive at a number, as long as it's a reasonable number, I'll be happy to oblige you. I have a feeling, however, you aren't gonna like the examples I already have at the ready, because they directly and resoundingly refute your assertion. It might not be a thread you want to tug.

They sure did - due to an act of war against our homeland.
No, the came out in protest against an entire religion because of the actions of a few extremists within that religion.

But that hardly compares to Muslims rioting in the streets and threatening death to those who published some cartoons they didn't like.
Quite true. Muslims restricted their protests and death threats to the people who actually published the cartoons, rather than an entire people.

It may come as a shock to you that the USA has a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of speech - thus, the tolerance of radicals. Unlike Sharia, it doesn't condone murder, mutilation and torture of those who might offend Islam.
Yes, correct, American and those who live under strict sharia law are very different from each other. Not really a shocker.

In summary, let's try to bring this conversation back to the original subject matter. Comparing the treatment and abuse of Muslim women to that of Southern women is absurd. Statistics prove the rate of women's abuse is not concentrated geographically, as shown in my previous post.
So, apparently, your definition of "abuse" is limited to physical violence, and more specifically, sexual violence. That's not my definition, and it certainly wasn't my comparison. All I did was point out that abuse is abuse, and apparently some people find certain levels of abuse intolerable, while lesser levels are just fine, not even worth mentioning, in fact.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
A Muslim cleric gives a speech in a Mosque deploring terrorism, but because he wasn't speaking for the MSM it doesn't count? Is that how it works? A Muslim is asked a question by a mainstream reporter about Islamic radicals and they respond with condemnation for the radical, and that's not good enough? OK then. You asked for examples, plural, so I need to know the exact number of examples which will satisfy you, keeping in mind that several such examples have been posted to these boards in the past in response to the very same assertion that Muslim leaders fail denounce radical Mulsims. Once you arrive at a number, as long as it's a reasonable number, I'll be happy to oblige you.
LOL ... good luck getting a straight answer on that ...

If you get any answer at all, I'd expect that that your respondent will attempt to "booby-trap" the issue with further provisos and qualifications ...

That would, of course, likely be the absolutely height of hilarity ...

Fact of the matter is, with a minimum amount of time and effort - and a very minimum of internet skillz, any one could easily find the answer themselves ... that they haven't or don't probably says a little something ...

So, apparently, your definition of "abuse" is limited to physical violence, and more specifically, sexual violence. That's not my definition, and it certainly wasn't my comparison. All I did was point out that abuse is abuse, and apparently some people find certain levels of abuse intolerable, while lesser levels are just fine, not even worth mentioning, in fact.
And that, in itself, is perhaps rather telling ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
OK - so Christians apparently have the freedom to disagree with one another without having a fatwah declared. Maybe there's some freedom of speech involved, or civilized discourse allowed.
Not exactly a fatwah, but you should really meet our very own Christian Taliban pastor of the "Execute-The-Homos" Brigade ...

Controversial Ariz. Pastor Sparks Anger by Saying 'Gays Should Be Executed'

Seems he doesn' much care for women wearing pants either ...

Lord only knows what other kinds of darkness is percolating around inside his noggin ...
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Reminds me of the twenty-something Christian 2 or 3 years ago who stoned to death that 70 year old gay man because the Bible says homosexuals should be, you know, stoned to death. You'd think this happened in some far off land of sharia milk and barbarian honey, but no, it was just Philly.
 

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
Here is a post straight from my heart.

The one thing I hate about discussions about Religion and about groups of people is that often they turn ugly. People value their religouse beliefs, their race, and where they are from. I know many country people that are both christians and non christians that are of high caliber charecter.

Take my Father in Law, he is one of the most Godly men I have ever met. He is very wise, though he is a Trout farmer. He treats his wife like gold, he knows the value of a happy wife.
As for others, he provides advice, help, and is very secretive about money he gives to those that are in need.

An example of a Christian Lady would be my Aunt, she was the most giving person I have ever known. She had very little money, but was the happiest person that I ever known because she enjoyed serving others. Many people said that she was like everyones aunt. She had a had a big heart and made everyone feel special.

It was funny that on her death bed, for weeks the doctors said she would pass at any time, we all said she hadnt finished her prayer list yet.
At meals she would take along time saying Grace, whivh often would include national leaders and current events.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You claim that these radical Muslims "are simply accepted or tolerated by Islamic governments, religious leaders and mainstream Muslims," yet now you want to restrict my response to that significant examples from high level Muslims leaders, and not only that, but those who are speaking or writing for the international mainstream media? That's a pretty tall task, don't you think? A Muslim cleric gives a speech in a Mosque deploring terrorism, but because he wasn't speaking for the MSM it doesn't count? Is that how it works? A Muslim is asked a question by a mainstream reporter about Islamic radicals and they respond with condemnation for the radical, and that's not good enough? OK then. You asked for examples, plural, so I need to know the exact number of examples which will satisfy you, keeping in mind that several such examples have been posted to these boards in the past in response to the very same assertion that Muslim leaders fail denounce radical Mulsims. Once you arrive at a number, as long as it's a reasonable number, I'll be happy to oblige you. I have a feeling, however, you aren't gonna like the examples I already have at the ready, because they directly and resoundingly refute your assertion. It might not be a thread you want to tug.
Since this has nothing to do with the OP it can be addressed in another thread.
Quite true. Muslims restricted their protests and death threats to the people who actually published the cartoons, rather than an entire people.
That assertion is quite incorrect:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/international/middleeast/07cartoon.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
So, apparently, your definition of "abuse" is limited to physical violence, and more specifically, sexual violence. That's not my definition, and it certainly wasn't my comparison. All I did was point out that abuse is abuse, and apparently some people find certain levels of abuse intolerable, while lesser levels are just fine, not even worth mentioning, in fact.
It sounds like you're confusing abuse with attitudes; attitudes that no longer exist to the extent they used to in Southern Appalachia or other areas of the country for that matter. How do we measure the extent to which men have the attitude that women should "keep their place", and stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? Is that really abuse - and how does that square with women who prefer to be stay-at-home moms? Physical abuse is a manifestation that can be measured, and it's logical to say that areas where this type of abuse are high also harbor high levels of verbal and other kinds of abuse. Preconceived notions that the Southern part of the country has higher levels of "abuse" - whatever that may include - is nothing more than stereotyping and bigotry. Newsflash: Southern women no longer wear hoop skirts and carry parasols, and their tolerance for abuse is as low as most any other area of the country.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Actually, because they aren't allowed by men to be priests, that's exactly what it means. Well, subservient, anyway, and not sub servant.

So what? They are not allowed to be priests. Men aren't allowed to be nuns. And try telling a nun in a catholic school they are subservient. They'll knock you up side the head with their Habit.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Since this has nothing to do with the OP it can be addressed in another thread.
That's pretty funny, considering in which thread you made the request. I look forward to you addressing it another thread. I do hope we don't have to wait as long as we had to wait to hear back on how invading Afghanistan was done to protect the US Constitution.

The rioting that got out of control didn't change their focus at all.

It sounds like you're confusing abuse with attitudes; attitudes that no longer exist to the extent they used to in Southern Appalachia or other areas of the country for that matter.
Nope, not at all. It's interesting that you think as long as the attitude is that it's not abuse, then it's not abuse.

How do we measure the extent to which men have the attitude that women should "keep their place", and stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen?
I don't know, maybe take a poll, see how many men require their women to max out at executive officer and first mate while unambiguously knowing who the captain is?

Is that really abuse - and how does that square with women who prefer to be stay-at-home moms?
Contrary to the belief of a few, abuse comes in many forms and many levels. The notion that men can dictate that a woman know her place can absolutely be abuse. It could be as subtle as a man saying, "You're not wearing that," when she is getting ready to go out on girl's night, and then forces her to change clothes. Or he doesn't let her go out on girl's night at all. Or he strictly limits what she can buy. I know several women who have to deal with these very examples. They are not exactly happy, happy in their lives. Squaring it with those who prefer to be stay at home moms is easy, because they are making that choice, the same way that many Muslim women prefer wearing a hajib or burqa even when men don't require them to do so.

Physical abuse is a manifestation that can be measured, and it's logical to say that areas where this type of abuse are high also harbor high levels of verbal and other kinds of abuse. Preconceived notions that the Southern part of the country has higher levels of "abuse" - whatever that may include - is nothing more than stereotyping and bigotry.
All stereotypes are rooted in the truth, and when one experiences and witnesses things first hand, it's neither stereotyping nor bigotry. Plus, bigotry is the stubborn and complete intolerance of a belief or opinion that differs from their own. That's not what I'm doing at all. If you're going to level serious charges like that, the least you could do is comprehend their meaning. You, however, having a stubborn and complete intolerance of my opinion, and isn't that ironic.

Newsflash: Southern women no longer wear hoop skirts and carry parasols, and their tolerance for abuse is as low as most any other area of the country.
My experiences and observations contradict that statement. I don't see Southern women wearing hoop skits and carrying parasols very often, but then again hoop skirts in their day were the fashion everywhere, both in the north and the South, and parasols were reserved primarily for special occasions, or for being outside on sunny days, and were used as much in the South as they were on the boardwalk in New Jersey. Seems to be a little Southern stereotyping going on here. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As for Southern women having the same tolerance for abuse as women in other parts of the country, my experiences and observations say otherwise. When I moved back down South it was so much of a difference, and so stark, that I noticed it and commented on it, as much out of shock and awe as it was to better understand it and attempt to change their attitude and perspective on it. Like I said, these were coworkers, friends and in some cases relatives. These are not wild-haired, invented statements, and include people living in several cities and regions throughout the South.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Haven't you been paying attention?

They are not allowed to be priests.
Right. Because men won't allow it.

Men aren't allowed to be nuns.
Male nuns are called monks (or friars). Monks (and friars), however, can be ordained into the priesthood, whereas nuns cannot.

And try telling a nun in a catholic school they are subservient. They'll knock you up side the head with their Habit.
If you say that as a student, perhaps, because nuns are stereotypically abusive of children. But as an adult, especially as a priest, not so much. Nuns are sometimes abused by priests, and the Vatican looks the other way.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Actually, no, as no one here has done that. Clearly, you think "abuse" only refers to the physical. We do, however, have EO members glad to besmirch an entire world religion as barbaric. That's not low class, it's no class.

You've done far more to denigrate the South and Appalachia than anyone here. You keep posting in a manner that reinforces the stereotype. You've also insulted other members, and if that wasn't bad enough, you've now tried to insult me with fabricated lies which are easily refuted by simply reading this thread. That smacks of emotional desperation. Bringing "I'm telling mommy and daddy" into it to stomp your feet and get your way is just infantile. Like Cheri said, you went from high character and thick skin to crying like a little girl in record time.

Your posts on Muslims are bigoted, inflammatory and trolling. I do love a good irony.

Thick skin is for good natured teasing. Combining unsubstantiated allegations with anecdotal stories in an attempt to portray the South and Appalachia as wife-beaters is beyond the pale. The people of this region are as good or bad as any other part of the country. That being said, my love and admiration for the South, in general, and Appalachia in particular, are second to none. Good, decent people. Hard working. God fearing. Patriotic. Loyal. Friendly and eager to help those in need.

Your posts on Appalachia are bigoted, trolling and inflammatory.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Thick skin is for good natured teasing. Combining unsubstantiated allegations with anecdotal stories in an attempt to portray the South and Appalachia as wife-beaters is beyond the pale.
I agree. Fortunately, I nor anyone that I know of has portrayed Southerners or Appalachians as wife-beaters.

Beyond the pale is accusing someone of something they did not do, while knowing they did not do it.

The people of this region are as good or bad as any other part of the country. That being said, my love and admiration for the South, in general, and Appalachia in particular, are second to none. Good, decent people. Hard working. God fearing. Patriotic. Loyal. Friendly and eager to help those in need.
Good for you. I'm of the same admiration.

Your posts on Appalachia are bigoted, trolling and inflammatory.
Your posts on Muslims are bigoted, trolling and inflammatory. My posts on Appalachia was specifically to see if you can take it as well as you dish it out. Clearly, you cannot.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
I agree. Fortunately, I nor anyone that I know of has portrayed Southerners or Appalachians as wife-beaters.

Beyond the pale is accusing someone of something they did not do, while knowing they did not do it.

Good for you. I'm of the same admiration.

Your posts on Muslims are bigoted, trolling and inflammatory. My posts on Appalachia was specifically to see if you can take it as well as you dish it out. Clearly, you cannot.

My remarks are directed at the barbarism and brutality of the sharia penal code. As you know, a significant segment of Muslims do not live under the horrors of sharia. I am glad for those not subjected to such terror. I will continue to speak out against the cruelties of sharia often. You are not required to agree with my opinion. Try being nice once in a while. You can do it.
 
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