Debris Removal Charge?? Permission From Dispatch??

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Some years ago, while with Roberts White Glove, I delivered to the university in San Jose.

It was a part of a musuem exhibit, a mock up of an office, with all furniture included.

I was asked to arrive on Saturday as pedestrian traffic would be less.

On arrival I was met by super nice lady who looked the product and darn near passed out!

She had NO way to handle it, and no one to call for backup.

I went so far as to rent a forklift, unload and unpack it.

It came back to me ... all costs were covered, and a nice additional "tip" was produced. Along with a super nice "atta boy" letter.

Why did I do this? The freight needed to be unloaded, if that truck is not empty, there is no way to reload it. She was not qualified nor had the resources at hand to cover the rental cost of the forklift.

A step above? Perhaps, but customer service is my main objective. And I provided it.

Very few costs are recovered these days. Most of the time now if you do not get something approved in advance, you eat it.

The main thing is CYA. We once had a pickup, computer main frame. It was packed in a very expensive, custom made create. The shipper had spent a LOT of money to have a special company come in a build it on site. There was only one problem, their fancy, custom shipping create would NOT fit through the door!! I suggested that THEY call the person at their company in charge of this move, and FedEX, and make arrangements for me to uncreate the computer, roll it out the door, then put it back in the create after. THAT way we could provide the customer with the service needed AND do all the needed CYA.
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I would have been happy to take it to the dumpster or compactor that a hospital would surly have. Taking it with me would be something I'd want compensation for. As pointed out, legal disposal is an issue.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Why did I do this? The freight needed to be unloaded, if that truck is not empty, there is no way to reload it.
I believe this is the whole point of the post! The truck was not empty and ready to reload with debris in it.


I went so far as to rent a forklift, unload and unpack it.
After you unpacked the freight what did you do with the debris?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Getting back to the original post, charging for common courtesy is an abomination no matter what policy is being followed or broken for that matter.

An abomination?

B.S.

Common courtesies are courtesies because they are rendered without charge, like saying thank you after business is completed or asking a consignee exactly where to place the freight when delivering it with a pallet jack or inviting a concerned shipper inside your truck so he or she can closely observe how you secure the freight.

Debris removal is not a courtesy. It is a listed service for which our carrier charges a fee. I am not going to give away that service any more than I would give away an extra 100 miles of driving, free use of our liftgate, or a fee for a second stop one mile away.

About breaking policy, one of the reasons Diane and I get to keep the lucrative position we have as FedEx Custom Critical White Glove Services contractors is because we respect the company policies.
 
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Common courtesy works both ways. Common courtesy dictates that you do not ask someone to remove your trash.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I would have been happy to take it to the dumpster or compactor that a hospital would surly have. Taking it with me would be something I'd want compensation for. As pointed out, legal disposal is an issue.

Keep in mind that we had no time. We departed immediately to our next pick up. If the consignee agreed to pay to for debris removal and it was then decided that the building trash compactor would be used, another truck would have had to be called in to do that part because we would have been gone.

Moving two pallets through that building is easier said than done. Security or maintenance would have to be called because they are the ones with the key cards needed to get through the building and into the service elevators that presumably would be used to get us to the trash compactor. The consignee led us through the front door, a patient waiting room and some hallways to get us to the delivery location. The pallets would have followed a different route to the trash compactor.

Debris removal was not part of the original load. A new PRO would have been created to cover that new request. The paying party on the original load was not the consignee. It was the shipper. The shipper's load ended when the inside delivery was completed.

If the consignee wanted additional services after we fulfilled the obligations to the shipper, it falls to the consignee to arrange and pay for them. Diane and I were not available to provide such a service because we were already predispatched on another load.
 
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Letzboogie

Not a Member
An abomination?

B.S.

Common courtesies are courtesies because they are rendered without charge, like saying thank you after business is completed or asking a consignee exactly where to place the freight when delivering it with a pallet jack or inviting a concerned shipper inside your truck so he or she can closely observe how you secure the freight.

Debris removal is not a courtesy. It is a listed service for which our carrier charges a fee. I am not going to give away that service any more than I would give away an extra 100 miles of driving, free use of our liftgate, or a fee for a second stop one mile away.

About breaking policy, one of the reasons Diane and I get to keep the lucrative position we have as FedEx Custom Critical White Glove Services contractors is because we respect the company policies.

The simple fact you would rant about removing a pallet from your truck without payment clearly demonstrates your prioritization of money over customer service. Was this a regular customer? Was this woman a decision maker in the company? Don't think she won't remember your disregard for her needs next time. It could cost FedEx this customer. For years I have listened to Custom Critical Drivers proudly talk down to the rest of us with their "we go the extra mile and that's why we get higher rates" crap. Customer Service is delicate. It can take years to develop a customer and one bonehead move to send them off to a competitor. Just one more pompous feather in the purple cap.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The simple fact you would rant about removing a pallet from your truck without payment clearly demonstrates your prioritization of money over customer service.

No rant. Not here. Not with the consignee. There was no emotion involved. She asked for an additional service and I explained the additional charge. Also no conflict between money and customer service. The shipper and consignee recevied our usual level of exceptional service but it ended when the paid for service was rendered.

Was this a regular customer?

Only to the extent that she receives stuff shipped to her by others. She was not a shipper. She was the director of a research project.

Was this woman a decision maker in the company?

Yes, but it is not a company that ships stuff. It is a research project in a hospital.

Don't think she won't remember your disregard for her needs next time.

No I don't. I did not disregard her needs. While Diane and I could not have fulfilled her debris removal need because we had to roll immediately on another load, our company could have by sending another truck. Her needs were not disregarded.

When told of the available service and charge for debris removal, she asked no questions and showed no irritation. What probably happened was that when she asked in passing the pallet removal question, she instantly thought of another solution when I told her of the charge. Most likely, she called hospital maintenance to have the pallet removed from her area of the hospital. That may have been done immediately upon her request or by the janitorial staff at night. I don't know for sure, but that was the likely outcome.

She was not upset because there was nothing to be upset about. Indeed, she was delighted with the care I showed in moving her freight inside (the walk through before the freight was moved, the slow and tender way I moved her fragile freight from the pallets onto the cart, moving slowly and carefully through the patient waiting area, being careful to not bump walls and door posts, etc.).

I smiled, maintained a good attidude, addressed her by name, left her with the feeling that she was in charge of the journey through the building. This woman was well served.

It could cost FedEx this customer.

Only if you use your imagination to create a set of circumstances that did not happen on site and pretend those circumstances are the truth. Given her position, she probably has never booked a freight shipment in her entire life and probably never will. If she has occasion to ship a package overnight, she is as likely to call FedEx Express as anyone, and maybe even more likely because of the positive experience she had with us.

For years I have listened to Custom Critical Drivers proudly talk down to the rest of us with their "we go the extra mile and that's why we get higher rates" crap.

There are two aspects to your comment. One is about feeling talked down to. The other is about why we get paid higher rates.

The higher rates talk is not crap. It is the exact truth. Customers choose to pay higher rates to us because they believe we deliver a higher quality of service. And they believe it because it is the truth. It's not that they don't have other options. It's that they want what we provide. There are hundreds if not thousands of lower-cost providers that our customers can choose from. They choose us and pay the higher rates because they get what they pay for.

About being talked down to, if you feel that way, I invite you to consider the fact that no one can make you feel inferior without your permission.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Greg I think you just like giving Phil a hard time. But on this one Phil is right, why should Phil take a pallet away where he is going to have to pay to get rid of it. I would have done the same thing. If I wanted to haul trash around I would have got in the trash business and bought a trash truck. Taking things to the dump is not cheap anymore plus you have to get out and unload it.

Dave,
I'm not giving Phil anything, he wasn't the focus of my comments, I replied to the original post.

But this all illustrates is the difference between those who are making money consistently and those who are chasing it consistently.

Many may not agree with what I'm saying but it works for those who are actually working outside the box. Being at Panther, FedEx and other companies, you are boxed in so there is a difference.

What also is brought to mind is that if it works for you, that's great but don't try to justify something as right or wrong without understanding that there are things that are done to please a customer. It appears people are making excuses, chasing pennies and acting like this is a great big deal to be asked to go a little beyond just hauling the freight.

Here are two little parts of an article I have written about my success, which by the way I now claim because I reached my goals.

First part to understand my goals

So throughout my 'career', I strive for a few things;


1 – to actually think, feel and act as I was in business for myself, not for the company which means I don't want to hear “your a partner” or any crap like that or treated like a child or tolerate being treated as a child. All that demeans me and my business



2 – to have consistent income from a few customers by being the best I can be. This means a goal is I am making money consistently, not chasing it consistently as most do. THIS also means that I had control over my opportunities, the company didn't limit my ability to work.


3 – to learn what I needed to learn to make my life easier and to make it easier to say to someone "yes I can do that" or "I can suggest a solution for you"


You may notice what is not on that list is money and fame. I wasn't going to follow people who ***** their way into a great position near the top but work my way up to learn. I wasn't too concern with money, that was the vehicle to my happiness, not the actual happiness I was seeking.


I didn't take to the idea that the truck makes the person, it is a tool and nothing more. If I was getting work because of the shiny wheels and lights on my truck, than there is a serious problem with the company and how they actually view the relationship we have.
Just to add a couple things.

I took the time to learn things by being involved with them - not through reading about them or 'researching them'.

I dispatched for one of the companies here on EO - not going to mention who - it was a couple days a week for a month but it was enough.

I went to work for a customs broker where a friend works to learn what the process is on the other side AND I also helped her study for her examine so I know what it takes to get there.

I worked at a terminal for a couple days a week to learn the process they have.

I also took a few days a week to work for a customer to find out what they faced with us.

I managed a fleet for free.

I drove trucks for other companies to learn their process and to find out how to better serve mine

I knocked on doors to get them open, I bartered my services in other areas to open doors and all of it paid off without a wasted moment.
Second part that is what I'm getting at;


Success isn't about the money, it is all the opportunity.

It is the ability to be flexible while being able to capture revenue that is above the norm and doing it in such a way you will never have to worry about oppertunities to continue to capture that above the norm revenue.

A lot will claim it is their customer service that gives them a step up but it isn't unless the company lets you actually be their face to the customer which doesn't happen as I said.

A lot will claim that success is a million dollars or a fancy truck but it isn't unless those customers are theirs and only theirs to service.

Sure you can make a million dollars but who cares about a million dollars if you are locked into a mundane existence with a company that treats you like a child. I didn’t follow others who kiss a** or lie about what they could do just to make the money.

Whether or not you want to listen to those who say the opposite, it is alright with me but for me I wasn't taking that path that set me up to have all the toys on the truck or all the certifications to haul things that got me here or there but rather my attitude to go beyond without demanding pennies for every little thing … that has paid off.

I have worked hard for 5, going on 6 years, I have taken risks that many will not take just to learn, I have had doors open by knocking on them and trading my skills and talents all the while having the perseverance to find answers to be better at what I do. I have networked with people at all levels of this industry, doing them favors and came out of it rather with an attitude that this is by far the simplest job I have ever done but it is the hardest to become more than just a truck to the companies I worked for.

BUT this raises a question; is it really important to do any thing that allows you to become more than a number to most companies?


Well it all depends on you.


For me yes it was. It wasn't worth selling myself short or being boxed into a position that I have little control over what I do. It is that control that is more important to me than anything else because that means I have the ability to make my own opportunities that allow me to achieve my goals without changing my goals to fit the company.

If I took the path of others, I would not be better off but just have more money and money isn't what produces consistent results in business or more importantly happiness. My happiness isn't derived by the money but money is the vehicle to achieve my happiness.

Right now I have dedicated my truck to one customer.

It means I have to be on call for them 24/7 and have in the middle of the night gotten into my truck and drove 200 miles to service that customer. Most … make that almost everyone would not even consider that without some sort of compensation - like paid Deadhead or extra money to tie up the truck - but I don't because of the amount that I have negotiated with the customer.

It took 6 months of work to get to where that customer trusted me with their stuff, and I work harder to ensure that I'm there on time, I haul safely and they and their customer are happy.

I learned a long time ago something I just read in an article in Road Gorilla about Henry Albert – who is some sort of guru in this business - in order to be a success, I have to be willing to give some of my service away a bit cheaper price just to get in the door and prove that I can do a good job for them. He said the same thing, amazingly it works for him too. I've applied this in two businesses and it works.


How many are willing to do that?


I bet not a lot because it is a lot of hard work and a lot of risks involved, but even the simplest things to get noticed, to get out of that crowd so not to be another face in the crowd is important for even those who work for a carrier as a driver.

I learned that it isn't the shiny truck or the special eliteness of the company that matter but showing the attitude that the carrier's customer is number one at all times.

BUT the more important question is how many can do that while working for a company that gets you all the work for you?

I don't know. It took me 5 years to find a path to follow to reach my goals, and that meant getting out from under one or another company to find where I'm not a "partner" or a number but part of the equation.
 

Letzboogie

Not a Member
No rant. Not here. Not with the consignee. There was no emotion involved. She asked for an additional service and I explained the additional charge. Also no conflict between money and customer service. The shipper and consignee recevied our usual level of exceptional service but it ended when the paid for service was rendered.

I have no way of defining or measuring your "usual level of exceptional service" I will however read between the lines and surmise it was was no more than basic fulfillment, with no value added.


Yes, but it is not a company that ships stuff. It is a research project in a hospital.

So there likely could be future business here.


When told of the available service and charge for debris removal, she asked no questions and showed no irritation. What probably happened was that when she asked in passing the pallet removal question, she instantly thought of another solution when I told her of the charge. Most likely, she called hospital maintenance to have the pallet removed from her area of the hospital. That may have been done immediately upon her request or by the janitorial staff at night. I don't know for sure, but that was the likely outcome.

Ah yes, Speculation. You're right. She probably called maintenence and they probably removed it. Not exactly the point though.

She was not upset because there was nothing to be upset about. Indeed, she was delighted with the care I showed in moving her freight inside (the walk through before the freight was moved, the slow and tender way I moved her fragile freight from the pallets onto the cart, moving slowly and carefully through the patient waiting area, being careful to not bump walls and door posts, etc.)
I smiled, maintained a good attidude, addressed her by name, left her with the feeling that she was in charge of the journey through the building. This woman was well served.

In your humble opinion, right?


Only if you use your imagination to create a set of circumstances that did not happen on site and pretend those circumstances are the truth. Given her position, she probably has never booked a freight shipment in her entire life and probably never will. If she has occasion to ship a package overnight, she is as likely to call FedEx Express as anyone, and maybe even more likely because of the positive experience she had with us.

I'm not imagining anything. You though speculated several times about what "she" was thinking and what "probably" happened to the pallet. That's some imagination.




The higher rates talk is not crap. It is the exact truth. Customers choose to pay higher rates to us because they believe we deliver a higher quality of service. And they believe it because it is the truth. It's not that they don't have other options. It's that they want what we provide. There are hundreds if not thousands of lower-cost providers that our customers can choose from. They choose us and pay the higher rates because they get what they pay for.

Not likely. There are many, many customers out there who once used CC or their predecessor, but no more. Price is one big aspect. Some that remain likely fit the profile you describe. Many others, some of whom I know for sure fit this description, entered their position as decision makers at their company with CC being the existing expediter of record. They are afraid to rock the boat as they lack the ability to discern one from another and as a result fear change, and remain with the incumbent by default.


If you feel talked down to, I invite you to consider the fact that no one can make you feel inferior without your permission.


I do not feel talked "down to". Perhaps that was a poor choice words. I should have stated a little more directly and clearly how many Custom Critical Drivers over the years, have demonstrated, much as you have in this post, an unsavory arrogance based on some self conjoured superiority. I certainly do not feel inferior to you or anyone else.
 
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Monty

Expert Expediter
In 1985, there was no Fedex Custom Critical ....

The fact I was willing to provide that extra service, and go an extra mile is one of the very reason that big shiny team truck is now wheeling around the country enjoying the buzz.

We pioneers, (read old farts), had to build the business you enjoy so much today.

25 years ago, things were a bit different, but that would not prevent me, even today, to make those extra efforts to cultivate business.

I have told every agent I work with at Landstar, "If that is in-house freight", I will do whatever it takes to make the pickup, and delivery, happen.

Not so much with NLM, etc, bid freight .. too many want to haul that cheaply.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I have picked up MANY loads that had been services by other carriers. Many moved to FedEX because of the poor service by the other carrier. They moved because of too many hijackings.

I am NOT saying this because FDCC is better. I point this out only because EVERY carrier has had customers move for many reasons. Every carrier has it's good and bad. I know Phil, he provides great service, as do we. We do, however, have to be careful with liability, disposal laws and time constraints. It is possible to get into a LOT of REAL trouble these days by stepping too far past what has been contracted for. That is a unfortunate reality into days world.

I am old school. I know that there have been times that I think I could have provided additional service, In every case, had there been problem, my business would be at fault and in jeopardy. It is a sad reality.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Ah yes, Speculation. You're right.

Exactly as I stated, I do not know, so, yes, it is specualtion. Now, you might want to notice that I was there and you were not. The only source of information you have for what happened is my account. Everything else you think happened there you are making up in your own mind. Thus, you are speculating too. The difference is I disclose it when I specuate.
 
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Letzboogie

Not a Member
Exactly as I stated, I do not know, so, yes, it is specualtion. Now, you might want to notice that I was there and you were not. The only source of information you have for what happened is my account. Everything else you think happened there you are making up in your own mind. Thus, you are speculating too. The difference is I admit it.

Yeah, ok, I'm bored now. You win.
 

BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
Mr. A. Your Bride's an Attorney. You should have said yes to the request, got it on tape and witnessed. Grabbed the pallet, yelled ouch! hang nail. Sued the hospital and retired a little earlier.:p
 
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BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
Surprisingly enough, I have had a second thought today. :p Wouldn't this or any other Hospital have a maintenance man\women to do exactly what they wanted A Team to do for free?.:rolleyes:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Surprisingly enough, I have had a second thought today. :p Wouldn't this or any other Hospital have a maintenance man\women to do exactly what they wanted A Team to do for free?.:rolleyes:

Yep and probably a union that would have formed a "picket line" around Phil's truck for taking their jobs away from them too! :eek::p
 
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