Obama gets standing ovation!

DougTravels

Not a Member
The bright and educated students at Notre Dame gave our President a standing ovation while attending his speech. The day was not spoiled by the few wackos inside or the lunatics arrested outside.

By Michael D. Shear
SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- President Obama called for "open hearts, open minds, fair-minded words" as he accepted an honorary degree from the University of Notre Dame amid angry protests over his support for abortion rights.

For nearly two years on the campaign trail, and since becoming president, Obama has sought to skirt the emotional intensity and anger that accompany the debate over abortion, preferring instead to focus on issues of war and the economy.

That became impossible Sunday, as his mere presence at one of America's best-known Catholic universities capped a firestorm about whether an institution dedicated to the cause of fighting abortion should honor a president who is committed to a woman's right to choose.

For the second time in a week, questions about how and whether to honor America's first African American president threatened to overwhelm Obama's commencement address amid a swirl of finger-pointing and recriminations by others that spread far beyond the school boundaries.

But as he did in Arizona last Wednesday, Obama appeared energized by the controversy, confronting the issue with relish in his speech to graduates and offering a plea for courteous dialogue while acknowledging that divisions about abortion in the country are all-but irreconcilable.

"Is it possible for us to join hands in common effort?" he says in prepared remarks. "As citizens of a vibrant and varied democracy, how do we engage in vigorous debate? How does each of us remain firm in our principles, and fight for what we consider right, without
demonizing those with just as strongly held convictions on the other side?"

Hundreds of anti-abortion protesters gathered outside the gates of the university as Obama spoke, waving signs and chanting protests. Police arrested several people. Back in Washington, Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele said it was "inappropriate" for Notre Dame to give Obama an honorary degree.

Billboards on the nearby Indiana Tollway read, "Notre Dame: Obama is pro abortion choice. How dare you honor him." On Fox News Sunday, Father Frank Pavone, director of Priests for Life, said Obama's position on abortion "contradicts what it means to be president."

Inside the Joyce Center basketball arena, a handful of the graduates attached yellow crosses and two baby feet to the top of their mortarboards in a silent protest of the president's receipt of the honorary degree. Others amid the crowd of 12,000 affixed Obama's red, white and blue campaign symbol to theirs in support of the president.

Obama was introduced to a loud, sustained standing ovation, but early in his address two hecklers interrupted his remarks. One screamed "Abortion is murder!" "Baby Killer!" and "You have blood on your hands." The crowd responded quickly to drown him out by chanting "We Are N.D." Obama paused but continued moments later.

In his speech, the president did not engage the debate over when life begins, or attempt to justify his beliefs about abortion or stem cell research, which critics of the university say should have disqualified him for an honorary degree. Instead, the president took aim at the loud and angry rhetoric which he said too often dominates the discussion.

It is the failure on both sides to use "fair-minded words," he said, which overly inflames an important debate. As an example, he described his own a campaign website, which at one point used the phrase "right-wing ideologues who want to take away a woman's right to choose."

It was not until a doctor e-mailed him about the phrase that he ordered it taken down, he said.

"I didn't change my position, but I did tell my staff to change the words on my website," he told the crowd. "And I said a prayer that night that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me."

Obama's decision to speak directly to the abortion controversy was the second time in a week that the president had used a commencement speech to attempt to reframe a discussion about himself in a broader context.

At Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe, Ariz., Obama talked directly about Arizona State University's decision to deny him an honorary degree. A university spokesman's comment that he did not have "a body of work" to justify the degree became the theme of his speech.

"That's what building a body of work is all about," he told 60,000 people at the stadium. "It's about the daily labor, the many individual acts, the choices large and small that add up over time, over a lifetime, to a lasting legacy. That's what you want on your
tombstone. It's about not being satisfied with the latest achievement, the latest gold star -- because the one thing I know about a body of work is that it's never finished."

In similar fashion, Obama did not shy away from the Notre Dame controversy yesterday. He stressed the need for cooperation and good will even among those who disagree with each other about the most morally weighted issues.

"Remember, too, that the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt," he said. "This doubt should not push us away from our faith. But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, and cause us to be wary of self-righteousness."

As president, Obama has sidestepped some of the most sensitive questions about life and when it begins. He loosened Bush-era rules governing stem cell research, but left it to Congress to lift the ban on federal money for research.

And he has resisted calls from abortion-rights activists to push for passage of the Freedom of Choice Act, which would make abortions legal in all cases. During his last news conference, he said it was "not my highest priority."

That did not satisfy the protesters, who gathered outside the view of the presidential motorcade when it arrived. Protesters included anti-abortion activist Terry Randall and Norma McCorvey, the woman at the center of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court case on abortion.

Obama is not the first president to be met by protesters at Notre Dame's commencement. About 400 gathered to oppose Ronald Reagan's stand on capital punishment and Central American policy in 1981 and hundreds expressed their anger about George W. Bush's support for the death penalty two decades later.

In 1992, Bishop John D'Arcy boycotted the commencement speech by George H. W. Bush because the university awarded a top medal to Democratic Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, an ardent supporter of abortion rights.

But none of the presidential speakers has become the lightening rod that Obama has. Despite having played down abortion rights issues as a candidate, his invitation here became a magnet for activists on the campus and outside of it.

Before his speech, an honorary doctor of laws degree was conferred on the president. Provost Thomas G. Burish said Obama represents "a new era of hope" and said that "through his willingness to engage with people who disagree with him ... he is inspiring this nation to heal its divisions."
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The bright and educated students at Notre Dame gave our President a standing ovation while attending his speech. The day was not spoiled by the few wackos inside or the lunatics arrested outside.
Well, they gave him a standing ovation when he was introduced, but everyone always stands when the President of the United States is introduced, so I'm not sure how much you can read into that, especially if you read the entire article. And considering your position on religion, calling students at a Catholic institution "bright and educated" seems a tad hypocrit...er, uhm, I mean, ironic.

You can't condone religion when it suits you and then condemn it when it doesn't. Not with a straight face, anyway. :p
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
For the second time in a week, questions about how and whether to honor America's first African American president threatened to overwhelm Obama's commencement address amid a swirl of finger-pointing and recriminations by others that spread far beyond the school boundaries.

It is amazing that race is interjected into the article, those racist protesters.

At Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe, Ariz., Obama talked directly about Arizona State University's decision to deny him an honorary degree. A university spokesman's comment that he did not have "a body of work" to justify the degree became the theme of his speech.

I heard comments that ASU is racist by not giving him a degree but they are 100% right when there is nothing that justifies it.

I would like to see the effort made not to interject race into this every time there is something said or done against this guy, but then again there is little freedom of speech when it comes to any reasonable debate with any liberal - "The day was not spoiled by the few wackos inside or the lunatics arrested outside."
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
I do not consider Notre Dame a religious institute. At One maybe but not now. Even if you do consider it a religious university, that would say even more about the support and broad appeal our fine young president has.

It is a fine day to be an American!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Honestly Doug, if you believe in him, more power to you but as much as I believe you have a lot more common sense than to fall for the same BS line that others have been falling for. The line has been created to give people of little intelligence what it perceived as prosperity while messing up things that are the foundation for true prosperity.

Great day?

I think not and after hearing true die hard liberals tell me they are scared of this guy because they can see through him even further reinforces the idea that many are are just sheep headed for the slaughter. Race was interjected by the press on several occasions, this had nothing to do with race but because the public is starting to believe what the press says, we will see more of the liberal "I am talking, shut up" kind og debating - if you want to call it debate. No one seems to think that "black" should have zero to do with it, no one realizes that the person matters, their background and up bringing matter but not the color of their skin.

Notre Dame is a Catholic University, it is chartered as a religious school and that Catholicism in this country is divided to the point that was shown at that event. The people sitting on the board of the university were not just people who were there to help the university but they all have the same agenda as does a lot of catholics within the religion. The students on the other hand were not all that thrilled and some didn't even show up for their own commencements.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I don't see where Doug's characterization of the students as 'bright and capable' is hypocritical or ironic. I'd have made the same assessment, because I don't think those who disagree with me are stupid, necessarily.
It seems to me the hypocrites are those who feel Obama deserves nothing but scorn, because his beliefs differ from theirs.
His speech had much wisdom - it's a shame they'll never hear the message.
 

flattop40

Expert Expediter
This thread is typical as to why I don't visit too often anymore. Everyone knows, I think, my stand on politics. At one point I got too involved and opinionated about things and have come to the conclusion that no matter what is said or posted or pasted or whatever there is less chance of changing someones mind then winning the lottery.

I am just tired of it all. Lets give it all a rest and ramp things back up when the next election comes along.

And I will leave on this note: MURDER IS A SIN
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
I agree Cheri good post. It is funny that those who were not crying as Bush/Chenys administration put us in dire straits now all of a sudden are upset with how things are.

I know of course that Notre Dame is a catholic based University, but correct me if i am wrong(Greg/Turtle) I believe they accept all religious faiths including not having any now.

It is really sad for our country that we are not just ending Gores 2nd term, I'd bet we would be in much better shape. Who knows 911 might have even been stopped had we had competency in the Oval Office. I'm pretty sure we would not have wasted many soldiers lives and 10's or is it 100's of Billions of dollars in Iraq. Even if 911 had happened and we would have went into Afghanistan we would probably be about done there by now, without having to commit our forces in Iraq.

Yeah Cheri they think we are the "dumb sheep" , maybe the truth is just more than they can face.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I just realized how incredibly religious Doug is. He doesn't admit it but he's got to be the guy at the rally that when called on by Obama said to Obama (paraphrased) "oh god, oh thank heavens, oh sweet jesus thank you god that you're here". Then again, maybe that particular guy isn't Doug since Doug posts like he has an even bigger tingle in his leg than that.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cheri, one doesn't deserve scorn, one earns it. One deserves respect initially and then either earns the maintenance of said respect or loses it. As to what falls under scorn, that is dependent on the observer and is going to be those things that are most opposite the beliefs of the observer so by human nature there is some degree of what you recognize.

The bigger picture/issue are those who fawn all over Obama and wet their pants in excited adulation of him, just like puppies often do with their masters. Those same individuals are the ones who vehemently denounce Bush at every opportunity on every topic/issue regardless of the facts. Their posturing aside, they are closed minded and myopic in both eyes in both directions. The alternative are those who objectively observe/assess and find fault or favor depending on the objective assessment.

I frequently criticize Bush on certain things that he did not do to my satisfaction or as well as I'd have done them. I also recently posted giving Obama credit for a passing grade on the world stage. Now, that may have been "speechifying" and nothing else but I'm open minded enough and willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's doing the right thing on at least one thing.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
I just realized how incredibly religious Doug is. He doesn't admit it but he's got to be the guy at the rally that when called on by Obama said to Obama (paraphrased) "oh god, oh thank heavens, oh sweet jesus thank you god that you're here". Then again, maybe that particular guy isn't Doug since Doug posts like he has an even bigger tingle in his leg than that.

It would be appreciated if a mentally stable moderator or administrater would please put an end to these personal attacks.

They are a clear violation of the rules.

Thank You
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't see where Doug's characterization of the students as 'bright and capable' is hypocritical or ironic. I'd have made the same assessment, because I don't think those who disagree with me are stupid, necessarily.
The difference is, in post after post Doug has gone on and on about how, essentially, if there was no religion that the world would be a better place, and has scorned religion and the religious. In order to be consistent and not hypocritical, he would therefore have to scorn the reactions of those at Notre Dame towards Obama. Instead, he twisted the truth and used religion for his own purposes. It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.


It seems to me the hypocrites are those who feel Obama deserves nothing but scorn, because his beliefs differ from theirs.
His speech had much wisdom - it's a shame they'll never hear the message.
The ones who scorn him just to scorn him are just as bad as, in the case of this thread, those who praise him even when praise isn't warranted, especially when they twist reality to do it. The students did not give him a standing ovation while attending his speech, they gave him a standing ovation while attending his introduction, the same standing ovation that any President of the United States would get. There was nothing special about that standing ovation. Nothing. And he did not get any subsequent standing ovations for anything he did or said. But to use that as praise for Obama is just as bad as those who scorn him for their own purposes.


I know of course that Notre Dame is a catholic based University, but correct me if i am wrong(Greg/Turtle) I believe they accept all religious faiths including not having any now.
Wrong on both counts. Notre Dame is not Catholic "based", it is [in their words] "founded in 1842 by a priest of the Congregation of Holy Cross, is an independent, national Catholic university."

While they don't officially require a particular creed, "What the University asks of all its scholars and students, however, is not a particular creedal affiliation, but a respect for the objectives of Notre Dame and a willingness to enter into the conversation that gives it life and character."

"A Catholic university draws its basic inspiration from Jesus Christ as the source of wisdom and from the conviction that in him all things can be brought to their completion. As a Catholic university, Notre Dame wishes to contribute to this educational mission."

So all you have to do is read up on the objectives of Notre Dame to see, quite plainly, that if you aren't Catholic coming in, then you'd better bring something truly extraordinary to the table (like a 4.2 40 or a sweet fade-away jumper), and you'd better to be willing to draw your source of wisdom from the same place that the Catholic University draws its from (i.e., convert to Catholicism by the time you graduate). You can probably count on one hand how many non-Catholic graduates there are from Notre Dame, and all of them (if any at all - I'm not aware of any) likely went there on an athletic scholarship.

"University of Notre Dame as a place of teaching and research, of scholarship and publication, of service and community. These components flow from three characteristics of Roman Catholicism that image Jesus Christ, his Gospel, and his Spirit. A sacramental vision encounters God in the whole of creation. In and through the visible world in which we live, we come to know and experience the invisible God. In mediation the Catholic vision perceives God not only present in but working through persons, events, and material things. There is an intelligibility and a coherence to all reality, discoverable through spirit, mind, and imagination. God's grace prompts human activity to assist the world in creating justice grounded in love. God's way to us comes as communion, through the communities in which men and women live. This community includes the many theological traditions, liturgies, and spiritualities that fashion the life of the Church. The emphasis on community in Catholicism explains why Notre Dame historically has fostered familial bonds in its institutional life."

So please don't try to pretend that Notre Dame is anything other than a wholly religious institution, something that you are clearly against, and then twist that into wringing out praise for Obama like it's actual praise, 'cause it's not. Praise him, or scorn him, on his merits, not on some bizarre amalgamation of ignorance and hypocrisy. If you've got to look that hard to come up with something to praise for, if you've got to just make stuff up to praise him for, then obviously the praise isn't genuine, or deserved.

So, to Cheri, Doug, et, al, to criticize religion and the religious, and all that they represent as being the root of all things bad throughout history, to say that the world would be a better place without religion and the religious, and then to praise these same religious students as being "bright and educated" simply because to do so serves your own purpose, it's hardly a stretch at all to call that hypocritical. It's actually the definition of it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It would be appreciated if a mentally stable moderator or administrater would please put an end to these personal attacks.

They are a clear violation of the rules.
No, Doug, they really aren't a violation of the rules. No one is attacking you personally. It is your ideas, philosophies and methods that are being attacked, and ridiculed. If you're going to put yourself out there and take a public stance in a public forum, you have to be able to take the criticism without taking it personally.

The above request is unconscionable, quite frankly. Someone disagrees with you, and instead of being able to debate the issues on the merits, or to even see the humor with which it was done, you move to have your detractors gagged, to shut them up. How very Obama of you. And then to imply that if they aren't gagged, that whoever fails to do so is not mentally stable? Are you kiddin' me?!?!

This is the Internet, man. It's the funny papers. Don't lose sleep because Snoopy crashed his doghouse.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Doug said..
I'd bet we would be in much better shape. Who knows 911 might have even been stopped had we had competency in the Oval Office.

Wasn't another Democrat (Clinton) in office when the 9/11 was being planned....?? Cause it sure wasn't planned in a mere 8 months....NOT Bushes fault...the wheels were turning before he was even sworn in...
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
Doug said..

Wasn't another Democrat (Clinton) in office when the 9/11 was being planned....?? Cause it sure wasn't planned in a mere 8 months....NOT Bushes fault...the wheels were turning before he was even sworn in...

And wasn't Clinton Offered Bin Laden a Couple of times By Afghanistan But He wouldn't Take Him? :D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
...... If you're going to put yourself out there and take a public stance in a public forum, you have to be able to take the criticism without taking it personally.

The above request is unconscionable, quite frankly. Someone disagrees with you, and instead of being able to debate the issues on the merits, or to even see the humor with which it was done, you move to have your detractors gagged, to shut them up. How very Obama of you. And then to imply that if they aren't gagged, that whoever fails to do so is not mentally stable? ......

Well First Doug, I like you wit and humor and not attacking you personally. But it seems that Turtle pointed out something that follows a pattern with most liberals - their view point is always the right one and when they hit a wall, they scream that they are being shut down etc...They can't forget the past and only understand what they are being told is correct.

I want to point out that you obviously don't remember Gore and his Vice Presidency, he was an ineffective VP and a poor choice for a running mate for Clinton. Clinton obviously picked him to run because he was a tree with no feelings and it would not detract from Clinton's need to be in the spot light. Clinton's only competition was Hillary, even up until his departure she was in the spot light. I remember how Gore was to "Reinvent" government for the people and to make it more efficient, which would mean having most of the government workforce on the unemployment line.... but I digress.... the problem has been he was a poor senator, a rather poor VP and a very poor and sore losing candidate.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
I just realized how incredibly religious Doug is. He doesn't admit it but he's got to be the guy at the rally that when called on by Obama said to Obama (paraphrased) "oh god, oh thank heavens, oh sweet jesus thank you god that you're here". Then again, maybe that particular guy isn't Doug since Doug posts like he has an even bigger tingle in his leg than that.

It was LDB himself in another thread that threatened sanctions and thread locking if the personal attacks did not stop. This is clearly a personal attack. It is not on topic, but about the poster. It does not offend me that the man who calls blacks trash and starts "n" word threads saying that the "n" word means trash, bashes me. I consider it a compliment. If LDB types agreed with me, I would be sickened.

In my opinion this site needs 1 of 2 things- either more balance in their choice of mod's or a mission statment that this is a forum with a GOP agenda.
 
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