Why Assange deserves a medal

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
http://www.slate.com/id/2276312/

Why I Love WikiLeaks
For restoring distrust in our most important institutions.

By Jack Shafer
Updated Tuesday, Nov. 30, 2010, at 5:48 PM ET International scandals—such as the one precipitated by this week's WikiLeaks cable dump—serve us by illustrating how our governments work. Better than any civics textbook, revisionist history, political speech, bumper sticker, or five-part investigative series, an international scandal unmasks presidents and kings, military commanders and buck privates, cabinet secretaries and diplomats, corporate leaders and bankers, and arms-makers and arms-merchants as the bunglers, liars, and double-dealers they are.
The recent WikiLeaks release, for example, shows the low regard U.S. secretaries of state hold for international treaties that bar spying at the United Nations. Both Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her predecessor, Condoleezza Rice, systematically and serially violated those treaties to gain an incremental upper hand. And they did it in writing! That Clinton now decries Julian Assange's truth-telling as an "attack" on America but excuses her cavalier approach to treaty violation tells you all you need to know about U.S. diplomacy.
As WikiLeaks proved last summer, the U.S. military lied about not keeping body counts in Iraq, even though the press asked for the information a million times. Indeed, the history of scandal in America is the history of institutions and individuals routinely surpassing our darkest assumptions of their perfidy.
Whenever scandal rears its head—Charles Rangel's financial dealings, the subprime crash, the Valerie Plame affair, Jack Abramoff and Randy Cunningham's crimes, Bernie Kerik's indiscretions, water-boarding, Ted Stevens' convictions, the presidential pardon of Marc Rich, the guilty pleas of Webster Hubbell, the Monica Lewinsky thing, the Iran-contra scandal, the Iran-contra pardons, the savings-and-loan fiasco, BCCI, and so on—we're hammered by how completely base and corrupt our government really is.*
We shouldn't be surprised by the recurrence of scandals, but, of course, we always are. Why is that? Is it because when scandal rips up the turf, revealing the vile creepy-crawlies thrashing and scurrying about, we're glad when authority intervenes to quickly tamp the grass back down and re-establish our pastoral innocence with bland assurances that the grubby malfeasants are mere outliers and one-offs who will be punished? Is it because our schooling has left us hopelessly naïve about how the world works? Or do we just fail to pay attention?
Information conduits like Julian Assange shock us out of that complacency. Oh, sure, he's a pompous egomaniac sporting a series of bad haircuts and grandiose tendencies. And he often acts without completely thinking through every repercussion of his actions. But if you want to dismiss him just because he's a seething jerk, there are about 2,000 journalists I'd like you to meet.
The idea of WikiLeaks is scarier than anything the organization has leaked or anything Assange has done because it restores our distrust in the institutions that control our lives. It reminds people that at any given time, a criminal dossier worth exposing is squirreled away in a database someplace in the Pentagon or at Foggy Bottom. Assange's next stop appears to be Wall Street. According to the New York Times' DealBook, WikiLeaks has targeted Bank of America. Assange foreshadowed this scoop by telling Computerworld in 2009 of the five gigabytes of data he'd acquired from a B of A executive's hard drive; this month he told Forbesof an "ecosystem of corruption" he hopes to uncover. Today, he reiterated his intention to take on banks in an interview with Time.
As Assange navigates from military and diplomatic exposés to financial ones this year, his Wall Street targets won't be able to shield their incompetence and misconduct with lip music about how he has damaged national security and violated the Espionage Act of 1917 and deserves capital punishment. But I'm sure they'll invoke trade secrets, copyright, privacy, or whatever other legal window dressing they find convenient. Rather than defending their behavior, they'll imitate Clinton and assail Assange's methods and practices.
As the Economistput it yesterday, "secrecy is necessary for national security and effective diplomacy." But it "is also inevitable that the prerogative of secrecy will be used to hide the misdeeds of the permanent state and its privileged agents."
Assange and WikiLeaks, while not perfect, have punctured the prerogative of secrecy with their recent revelations. The untold story is that while doing the United States' allies, adversaries, and enemies a favor with his leaks, he's doing the United States the biggest favor by holding it accountable. As I.F. Stone put it, "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out."
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
More on why Assange deserves a medal:
Doug Casey on WikiLeaks
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Shining a light on the sociopaths who hide in the dark places under the rocks of government is always a good thing. Just as they recently did in their exposé of what is going on with the counterproductive U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's great to have a whistleblower organization like them. Julian Assange, who runs it, is a hero, and deserves the Nobel Peace Prize – although it's a shame that prize has become so meaningless and degraded.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]L: The more skeptical people become of the Right and Honorable So-And-So, the better.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Doug: Exactly. And on a more fundamental philosophical level, this is in keeping with my sense of justice. Crooks should not get away with their crimes just because they hold lofty titles, wear spiffy uniforms, and call their crimes great deeds necessitated by "national security," "economic stimulus," or whatever other nonsensical lies they come up with.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]================[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And he hasn't even gotten around to how fun it is to tweak statists like greg334 who believe the government can do no wrong!
[/FONT]
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The man crushes for Assange are everywhere it seems.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Assange deserves to disappear

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And he hasn't even gotten around to how fun it is to tweak statists like greg334 who believe the government can do no wrong!
[/FONT]

Actually Monger it is the opposite.

I feel the government is too big, does a lot of wrongs and needs to be change but being realistic and knowing a lot about history of what happened to other people in other countries, the chosen path of many idiots around us to invoke any change will lead to a worst situation for all of us in the long run because of the reactionaries within the government who view any threat on any level as something that can not be tolerated.

The REAL ROOT problem for us is the stupid asinine media and the elitist/academia/intelligentsia in this country who firmly believe that there should not be a barrier to information while at the same time protecting their own actions, words and motives. They are true hypocrites, they have as much reason to hide their actions, their words as does a bad government. They have attacked this country for over a century, they have been part of the political and the educational scene to change it to fit their idea of what would benefit them at the expense of us. They have look down upon all of us as dumb masses, not being able to even take care of ourselves and out of this they create programs that keep us suppressed and unable to advance.

IF you know history in any detail, then you will agree with that paragraph. There is a real reason people like Lenin and Trotskey cleaned house, getting rid of the elitist/academia/intelligentsia within Russia as their first move was simply they knew the threat that this posed for their work, even though most of the elitist/academia/intelligentsia in Russia supported Lenin and the revolution. The same went with dictators and despots throughout history; China, Greece, Rome, France, Germany, etc ...

We the people, who live our lives the best we can, depend on government to protect us against the world, it is something that we give them power to do. The problem isn't all the information that was put out by Wikileaks really helps us be protected and this more or less puts us in a bad position by straining our resources that protect us. The people behind the release of the information for what they thought was the greater good has been wrong and the fact that we are fighting a war against a group of people scattered all around who are not stupid by any means makes it even more important not to talk about information, let alone broadcast it.

One shred of that information that helps them kill one American or any number of the people who have helped us, justifies any and all action that is taken against those who leaked the information whether inside the law or not. The really sad thing is that Assange and his staff, the soldier and possibly others within our government are pawns in a greater struggle and as pawns there are no heroes just villains while those who orchestrated some of these things and those willing media accomplices will get away with it. The ones who cheer this move are also compliced in the ignorance surrounding the truth that information helps kill people.

WHEN we as a nation have to stoop so low as to talk in our media positivity about how someone can undermine our country, our way of life and put us in harms way, then we have a bigger problem with society as a whole by opening ourselves up to more of what happened on 9/11 and may very well deserve it. The one fact that has come out of this is we actually threw all the lessons of 9/11 away in order to act as we are told we should act, told what we should feel and be as we are told we should be, because we are treated as we don't know better.

AND one last thing

There is so much information, it doesn't take a lot to provide info on something that will allow them to kill anyone. It may be a massive amount of information but the target that Assange intended to reach with it is neither stupid nor without a lot of resources.

Unless you are with the people who we consider our enemies, or understand their motives from their point of view or know what they are thinking, do not for a second forget that you can never underestimate the damage that one piece of information can do to us.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I guess no one should be surprised at the unrestrained glee displayed by the radical left over these flagrant breaches of national security by Wikileaks. This level of naivete reveals their not-so-surprising lack of knowledge of how a representative republic is supposed to work combined with the understandable ignorance of international diplomacy. There are several factors at work here: (1) contempt and self-loathing for the fact that the USA is the lone global superpower - aren't all social classes and even nations supposed to be equal? Why shouldn't Russia, China and even Iran be established as equals to the US? (2) total lack of understanding the intricacies of international diplomacy - actually, very few people really understand this. I doubt seriously that anyone in our group has a clue what it's like to deal with the Chinese, Russians, Iranians, Palestinians, North Koreans or any other international adversaries. Contrary to the way they're portrayed in some of these silly articles copied here, these guys are not the well-intentioned messengers of truth that are faced with tolerating the drunken clods from the USA. Fact of life: most international diplomacy and security ops must be conducted in secret. The public does NOT have a right to know everything that goes on behind closed doors. There's a reason that we haven't had a successful attack within our shores since 911 - think about that when your wife and kids go to the crowded mall to go Christmas shopping.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Fact of life: most international diplomacy and security ops must be conducted in secret.

How dare they.

The one thing that I enjoyed with glee is hearing from Iraqis and Iranians alike were the fact rather ****ed off. The Arab states don't find this anything but damaging to themselves. Already reading the comments on BBC, there is an issue with the information being let out and those who are negotiating in the background now may not continue. It was explained to me, as I have said before here, a lot of things are not public because of cultural issues and practices. This is especially true in most parts of the middle east where information is closely guarded not because of terrorism but because it is power. Once someone loses face when something is divulged in public, then their credibility is shot and so is any progress made.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The man crushes for Assange are everywhere it seems.
It seems you have a real fixation on manlove there LDB (even if imaginary), given the inordinate surge in your posts about it recently ...

What's that all about ?

Are you lonely or something ?

Maybe missing your teddybear ?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The guy who starts numerous threads about Assange must be the one with the crush, not the guy who responds to a few of them.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
There's a reason that we haven't had a successful attack within our shores since 911\

you've gotta be kidding?

We are attacked every day...the American way off life has been diminished and curtailed.. all this airport screening all around stuff....getting asked for "papers" more and more..

as the terrorists laugh over airport delays and the billions of dollars we spend on security....

They could physically attack us whenever and where ever they chose...
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yes OVM but you seem to miss some important points.

1 - that this is a war not with backward idiot goat herders but with very intelligent people who don't lose their jobs when administrations change and are driven not by money but a more dangerous thing - religion. A lot of these people are educated here, at Harvard, Yale and Purdue. Some have multiple degrees and a lot of them are equal to many military leaders.

2 - all sides are in the intel business, they spy on us, we spy on them. They look for holes and we try to figure out what holes we have to fill. The problem with us is point 3 - our arrogance.

3 - our shared arrogance, like theirs gets into the way at times. The air port thing, the creation of DHS and other 'federal' law enforcement groups are a reaction to the attacks, but they also have the same arrogance which is simply they are right.

4 - the public is stupid and seems to forget a lot of things. I knew 9/11 would become not a rally cry but a slogan, and it did. For us, it is about the money and NYC who thinks they own the tragedy BUT it is not about being vigil or ensuring our safety.

5 - If I was in charge, I would eliminate the TSA all together and put the burden right on the airlines, it is their problem to keep people safe, not my tax money. I would also profile and not worry about peoples feelings. I would also make sure laws were passed to ensure that there can't be lawsuits over profiling at airports. It works everywhere else it is done without any issues. Flying is not a right.

Does he deserve anything?

yes some metal but not a medal.

By the way I think Rlent is infatuated with him. :p
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
and to think there have been no more attacks since 9/11...:rolleyes:

There has been a constant attack on our way of life...

yup....when your suspect is in all likelihood a black guy...you don't go looking for China men...

Profile away...
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The airport screenings, privacy intrusions, etc are not attacks - they're consequences. But let's get back to the subject matter of this thread - the notion that some writer for Slate.com thinks Assange deserves a medal. This should come as no surprise from some liberal that neither understands how the real world works, nor does he have a clue about the true nature or our nation's enemies and how they view us.

I and others might have to withdraw the assertion that we haven't had an attack on our shores since 911, because the theft and subsequent release of this information could easily be considered a cyber-attack. The Manning kid that got caught downloading these documents should be court-martialed for treason and locked up at Ft. Leavenworth doing hard labor for the rest of his life. Assange and those assisting him should be hunted down and put behind bars as well. If it turns out that his distribution of this classified information results in the death of just one citizen of the US or any of its allies, then he should be sent to Gitmo and held as a terrorist - because what he's engaged in is cyber-terrorism plain and simple. Better yet, if his actions should result in the deaths of Israeli or Saudi nationals we should extradite him to deal with their justice systems.

It's almost funny how those on the left who think of Assange as some sort of hero are the some ones who cried to the heavens for everyone in the Bush White House to frog-marched into prison for "outing" Valerie Plame - a mid- level administrative hack who wasn't even in covert status at the time. Just another instance of the blatant hypocrisy from those who are more concerned with championing their socialist agenda than protecting the welfare of the nation.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The guy who starts numerous threads about Assange must be the one with the crush, not the guy who responds to a few of them.
LDB, thank you for providing yet an another example of your inability to observe the obvious, and to reason.

Fact is, I could really care less about the particular individual personality involved in the matter (Assange) - it's essence of the matter that interests me, not the personalities.

I would certainly find it far easier on my eyes, were it Jennifer Anniston, Heidi Klum, Penelope Cruz, or Keira Knightley (oh baby !) I was seeing when I am reading articles on Wikileaks ... :rolleyes:

You know ..... something where a real possibility of a woodie exists ?

But that's fine, you just keep running with it - since it tends to show you for what you actually are ..... ;)
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
We are attacked every day...the American way off life has been diminished and curtailed.. all this airport screening all around stuff....getting asked for "papers" more and more..

as the terrorists laugh over airport delays and the billions of dollars we spend on security....
Very astute observation: wanna defeat an enemy ?

Just cause them to do things which will cause them to bankrupt themselves ....
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Yes OVM but you seem to miss some important points.

4 - the public is stupid and seems to forget a lot of things. I knew 9/11 would become not a rally cry but a slogan, and it did.
That's a pretty funny statement coming from someone who recently castigated others for supposedly doing the very same thing (thinking that "the public" was stupid :rolleyes:)

Can we all say:

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

By the way I think Rlent is infatuated with him.
See my reply above to LDB ....

And then, as part of today's study assignment (BTW, how's that one on copyright law coming ?) crack open a good dictionary and clear up the obvious confusion you have on the following words:

1. infatuation

2. admiration

There is a real difference you know .... even if you can't differentiate between the two .....
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
You may consider me a hypocrite but I'm not a coward like Assange.

Yep you are infatuated with the guy, You have been totally inspired with him through an intense admiration of him and his cowardly actions. I think you wish you had the nerve to do the same thing, which I am guessing by reading some of the words you used. :p
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Now here's an interesting proposition from an article in the Washington Times (that's probably being discussed by more than one country right now), which addresses the harsh realities and consequences of Assange's actions:

"...Officials in autocratic and Islamist states often risk their lives to cooperate with Washington, usually by providing vital information or advice. They now face a further disincentive to help us: The U.S. government can no longer guarantee the privacy and secrecy of their discussions.
...Mr. Assange is not a journalist or publisher; rather, he is an enemy combatant - and should be treated as such."

KUHNER: Assassinate Assange - Washington Times
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Not only is Wikileaks, and Assange, an enemy combatant, but a combatant who is performing espionage during a time of war.

WikiLeaks is acting like the intelligence agency of a nation hostile to the United States. They, like the terrorists and other intelligence agencies, have declared a modern form of war against us, and are waging it just like, say, the KGB would. They are violating our secrets and publicizing them for their own ideological ends. It's a serious game Assange is playing.

People ideologically think no more secrets is a good thing, but the problem is the secrets that are being released are the secrets of just one party of dozens, with the other dozens retaining their secrets. Several diplomats around the world have already said they'll have to be less candid and watch their words when talking to US diplomats from now on, because they don't want what they say to be made public. One of the cornerstones of effective diplomacy is private, candid conversations, and Wikileaks has made that a thing of the past. Those who would assist us at the risk of their own lives will be even more cautioned. Apparently, there are people who think that's just fine.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You may consider me a hypocrite but I'm not a coward like Assange.
Greg,

I think that possibly one of the worst forms of cowardice that there is, is to compromise and sacrifice one's beliefs - stuff like belief in the rule of law, the belief in the right to trial by jury of ones peers, presumption of innocence ...... all in the name of (supposed) security ....

Clearly, there are many who have no such qualms, perhaps you among them ....

Yep you are infatuated with the guy
If I am, then you are infatuated with and worship the state ..... (something that has become abundantly clear to not only myself, but others on here as well)

Personally, I'll take Assange any day ..... I think it's way better odds .....

You have been totally inspired with him through an intense admiration of him and his cowardly actions.
LOL .... well .... apparently so have alot of others.

You define cowardice as squarely placing oneself, and one's mortal life, directly in the crosshairs of many (if not most) of the nations of the world ?

How odd .... :confused:

You sure have some funny ideas (but then we already knew that, didn't we ? ;))

I think you wish you had the nerve to do the same thing, which I am guessing by reading some of the words you used.
Well .... greg ... since you really don't know me ..... please don't make any assumptions about what I might or might have the nerve to do ....
 
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