Weak Minds

[layoutshooter]

If this report is correct this is not a good sign. We are at war. Our intelligence service should have been on this like white on snow. If nothing else, revoke his visa until he is either cleared or not. You should always error on the side of safety. All kinds of red flags should have gone up when he booked a flight to the U.S. through Amsterdam. That airport is known for it's lax security.



WASHINGTON – U.S. government officials tell The Associated Press that the Nigerian man charged with trying to destroy a jetliner came to the attention of U.S. intelligence in November when his father went to the U.S. embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, to express his concerns about his son. We need to lower the bar for revoking visas. This is going to happen again and it may succeed. Let's tighten things up out there.



A congressional official said Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian, popped up in U.S. intelligence reports about four weeks ago as having a connection to both al-Qaida and Yemen.


Another government official said Abdulmutallab's father went to the embassy in Abuja with his concerns, but did not have any specific information that would put him on the "no-fly list" or on the list for additional security checks at the airport.
Neither was the information sufficient to revoke his visa to visit the United States. His visa had been granted June 2008 and was valid through June 2010. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because neither was authorized to speak to the media.

 

[FIS53]

The transfer at Amsterdam would not always be a problem as transfers between aircraft are quite often done without having to go out into the general terminal etc. Since this is a closed transfer (in many cases) there is no secondary security check (many int'l airports are this way). Newark is one I know of where all transfers between aircraft require you to go into the main terminal and get to another one or such so you go through security again. This includes travelers going from one int'l flight to another.

If they acted on every single tip with relation to any person traveling then there would be a lot of people delayed. They can't really act on everything. But what did the father actually say? If he only stated he was suspicious then it would have been little to act on.

Airport security has to change a bit to be more like the Israeli type and it would reduce possible problems by over 50% above what they are now.
Rob

 

[layoutshooter]

It can be a tough call for sure. I just think things should be tighter during a time of war.

 

[LDB]

Zero visas for anyone. Only legal, legitimate U.S. citizens allowed to enter the country. All others refused entrance and all who are here sent home ASAP, including all criminals here under false pretenses and/or vote buying amnesty.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't know if we can go to "0" visas, but I surely understand why you would feel that way. Getting rid of all criminal invaders, no matter where they came from, is a no brainer. Keep the scum out and get rid of all the scum already here.

 

[Moot]

That airport is known for it's lax security.

Same goes for the security at Los Angeles International Airport.

 

[layoutshooter]

Very good!!! At least I assume that was a play on words, sorry if it was not meant to be.

 

[Turtle]

 

[layoutshooter]

Very good Turtle!!! It would be so easy to retreat into the comfort of isolationism, in the short term. It would be a disaster in the long run. The problems we face are multi-faceted and the solutions are just as varied. The secret to a real start is first to fight this war for real. To do that we have to pay attention. As expensive our intelligence services are, they will save lives and money if we would get serious about them.

 

[FIS53]

Layout I agree that a 0 visa thing would be silly or even fatal to US interests, but what about a lower (extremely lower) work visas and as you and others have mentioned about getting rid of the illegals. This would open up a lot of jobs for those unemployed Americans and would definitely make the recovery happen.
Rob

 

[layoutshooter]

We need to control our borders. We also need input from the world. International travel and visits by outsiders is a good thing. We just have to be more careful than we have been. American's tend to be a bit short sighted at times. Once something is over, it is over. We, as a nation, have problems with long term thinking. Like a war that is going to last 40-50 years. Much like what was called the "Cold War"

 

[LDB]

If it's a choice between zero sovereignty like we have now and zero visas I'll take zero visas since what we have is obviously not working. We'd obviously never be able to have 100% compliance but we should be much closer to it than we are now. Do what it takes to drive out all the invaders. We don't need to track them down and deport them. We just make it intolerable to be here and they leave on their own. We make this nation less attractive and appealing than a Siberian gulag to the criminals. That should extend to the criminals who are citizens as well. Once they voluntarily deport do not let others in. The East German border system worked pretty darn well. It would keep people out as effectively as it kept people in.

 

[greg334]

We make this nation less attractive and appealing than a Siberian gulag to the criminals.

Leo, Gulags were havens for criminals not a punishment.

 

[FIS53]

Yeah Greg the pro criminals did make their own lives in the gulags better as they knew how to work the system better than most of the other prisoners. As for Leo's idea of making the US less attractive than a gulag well it might just take the shine off the American spirit. This could mean less ambition and more government involvement (heaven forbid). But he does have a good point of making it harder for the undesirables.
Rob

 

[LDB]

OK, wrong choice of example but my point is make it absolutely impossible for an illegal to tolerate it here. Make it a Siberian winter instead. Make it too risky for criminals to ply their trade with punishments so radically severe the maximum return from the crime wouldn't be worth the punishment risk. Make Alcatraz the most pleasant of all prisons, not the least. Criminals, both citizens and criminal aliens, should find their life in the U.S. one of absolute hell, too intolerable to endure and therefore the only options being to reform or return home if aliens.

 

[greg334]

Oh I totally agree with him, just wanted to point out the obvious to those who know the history of their system - which by the way wasn't a prison as we think of one today but a political reeducation system.

Anywho I beleive we have allowed our prisons to be run by the prisoners and each and everyone of them and society for that matter would be better off if we made them into the institutions of punishment and not of rehabilitation. I think the Maxi prison out west is a good example on how a prison should be, isolate to limit access to anything that allows a prisoner to make them feel at home. The idea of society being owed a debt only happens with truly victimless crimes and they are few and far between.

The visa issue needs to be addressed, we don't need too many H1b visa holders as we did in 1999, we have too many unemployed high tech workers who are more than able to fill the jobs and gaps. The same goes for a lot of other visas and in some cases not to allow Mexican and Canadian residences (NOTE not citizens) from getting work here which actually circumvents the visa process altogther.