Two helicopters crash watching a car chase

greg334 · Jul 27, 2007

And now there is talk of charging the guy driving the car they were chasing with murder of the four that died in the crash.

Sorry even though I feel they should be able to shoot the driver for running, the press does not have to be reporting every chase and this is something of occupational hazard and the pilots are at fault completely.

LDB · Jul 27, 2007

While the immediate fault lies with the pilots I believe this falls under the felony murder statute and the fleeing suspect is accountable. It should be a capital offense to flee and if the suspect isn't shot trying to escape they should face the death penalty if convicted.

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greg334 · Jul 27, 2007

Well I would agree with that Leo but here is the thing, the tv crews were too far removed and out of the way of the fleeing car to be in danger of getting hit or run over by the driver.

What I mean, and I am not defending the person fleeing by the way, is that the option of gathering news in this situation did not put them in harms way but the very act of flying in close quarters with other air craft did and this could have happened in other circumstances, hence the fault is not with the guy fleeing in anyway but the pilots and news director by the need to report 'the important' news, makes sense?

LDB · Jul 27, 2007

I understand your point and can somewhat agree however I don't believe there's any distance limitation on felony murder and that is why I believe it falls on the suspect too. I could be wrong, but I believe distance has nothing to do with the statute.

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Tennesseahawk · Jul 28, 2007

When I read the initial post, the first thing that came to mind was WHAT A COUPLE OF IDIOT PILOTS!

What it comes down to is the government is taking the position of 'if you weren't where you were at, the accident wouldn't have happened'. Sound familiar? They use it with truckers all the time. And it's BS!

Since the police were involved in the chase, and in a sense instigating it, aren't they partially responsible too? What about the bosses who sent them up there to get the entertainment we call news? What about the public who demands that entertainment? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why can't the blame be placed on the ones who were NEGLIGENT??? Because they're dead? Sorry... they are dead cause the pilots were IDIOTS!

Here's a scenario I'd like to put out there... A teenager is caught shoplifting. While running to catch the kid, a security guard slips on a freshly mopped floor and breaks his neck. Who's at fault for the guard's death?

Frankly, Leo, your stand of 'kill em all and let God sort em out' is kinda barbaric. I only hope that if you're caught in a similar situation, that you're only charged with the crime you've commited, and not used as a scapegoat for someone else's agenda. Then, you might rethink your stance.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

LDB · Jul 28, 2007

Well, since I'm not going to be running from the law I don't expect to ever be in that situation but if I do ever find myself somehow irresistibly overcome and controlled by an inanimate object that forces me to commit crimes against my will followed by another inanimate object forcing me to run from the law then I deserve whatever I get.

p.s. I don't want to kill them all, just the worst offenders who deserve it.

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bamamule · Jul 28, 2007

a little differnt
driving down the road leaving 8 sec gap
truck to you right ahead 10 sec blows tire
3 four wheelers hop in front of you slaming on brakes you rearend one causing 4 wheeler to explode killing people
whose falt is the accedent

Tennesseahawk · Jul 28, 2007

Leo... sometimes innocent ppl get charged. If you're driving a truck, there's a chance you could be charged whether you're at fault or not.

Bama... good scenario. Common sense dictates it's a mechanical failure, act of God, or such. Were the tires well maintained? If they were near bald, I'd say the driver of the blowout AND his company, if they neglected to inspect it. The reaction of the car you hit was wrong. If they were far enough back, they could've stopped before hitting the tire. Otherwise, they could've slammed on the brakes and hit the tire at a lesser speed. Instead, they played chicken with a truck and now are toasty.

That was common sense speaking. Now speaking from a bureaucrat's point of view, the driver who hit the car is at fault. If he wasn't there at that exact time, he wouldn't have hit the car; and most likely, those ppl would still be alive.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

bamamule · Jul 28, 2007

truck blew tire if you have one witness if not guess what

Aviator · Jul 30, 2007

When acting as pilot in command of an aircraft, in VFR conditions, YOU are responsible for keeping separation of your aircraft from other aircraft. One or both of the pilots messed up trying to get the best shot for the news room.

The guy who was being chased is a criminal, but he did not cause the accident. If you roll your car on the interstate, and traffic backs up, and there is a rear end collision involving personal injury, you should not be charged with a crime for those injuries. It is the fault if the driver involved in the accident.

As nice as it would be to be able to pile charges on the guy fleeing the cops, it is still the fault of the pilot in command of the aircraft. Looking to the guy fleeing the cops as a scapegoat is a poor idea.

Aviator

LDB · Jul 30, 2007

The difference is that if you roll your car on the highway you likely aren't doing it as part of an ongoing criminal act. The ongoing criminal act is the differentiating factor that makes the accountability issue.

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lanier1 · Jul 30, 2007

I agree. If the pilots had crashed while filming a highway accident then no charges would be filed. It is the fact he was willingly involved in a criminal act that makes the difference. Don't you all agree that Eric Rudolph was justly charged with the death of the man that died from heart failure at the Olympic Park bombing?

terryandrene · Jul 30, 2007

We'll have to save this one for "Law and Order, Criminal Intent".

I'm with Greg on this one. Lacking two aircraft having mechanical failure or a freak weather related incidents at the same monent, one or both of the Helo pilots were violating FAA VFR regulations and one or both of the pilots were culpable in the death of all concerned. The car chase and the helo crash were totally unrelated incidences. I'd betcha that the news crew families will be suing the TV station or the rent-a-helo company for damages and not the fleeing auto driver.

These same two pilots might have similar flying results if transporting a news crew filming a "feel good event. If they died in that incident would no one be at fault because they were not filming a crime?

LDB · Jul 30, 2007

The pilots are to blame and have responsibility in this. The responsibility extends to the criminal because of the criminal act. There would be no extension of responsibility in a feel good event because the crash would not be the result of "bad acts". Reckless driving with no regard for the safety of others is criminal negligence by definition. It is chargeable as manslaughter at the very least and should be pushed for felony murder.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

Tennesseahawk · Jul 30, 2007

But his driving didn't cause those helicopters to swerve to miss him. If someone wiped out directly because of his driving, killing pedestrians in the process, I'd have to agree with you. But he had no control over what happened 400 feet above him.

Lanier... I do agree with you about the man dying from a heart attack, as it was a direct result of the bombing. At the same time, the bomber's lawyer could argue that the bomber had no bearing on the victim's ticker being bad. That could go either way with a jury, IMO. You have to at least agree that the charge of murder in the bombing case isn't as much of a stretch as what they want to do with this driver.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

cheri1122 · Jul 30, 2007

I can't see where anyone is responsible for the crash except the pilots, who failed in their first duty: to control their aircraft. The piling charges on a guilty party may be currently fashionable, but IMO, it's wrong, and only breeds disrespect for the law. Punishing the guilty is a necessity, but so is fairness, and overkill can cause a backlash.

OntarioVanMan · Jul 30, 2007

Example: If me and another fella are standing on a cliff watching this chase and I lean over to get a better view and push the other guy off and he dies...the car driver is responsible??? Thats a stretch Leo...
The piling on of charges is only good for one thing...plea bargaining.
Its a crock

Tennesseahawk · Jul 30, 2007

And if the mother of one of these pilots hears the news and dies of a heart attack... nail him again!

Cheri said it right... fairness! Charging him isn't justice... it's vindictiveness.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

OntarioVanMan · Jul 31, 2007

Must be an election year in that county and the prosecutor wants to look tough on crime....

I just got to thinking....poor kid who puts one of them finger firecrackers in a cigarette!!! And for some reason it doesn't get lit and it's in a pack and the other fella is trying to board plane!! Creating an IED!! an act of terror???

Tennesseahawk · Jul 31, 2007

OVM... how bout the kid who gives her friend an aspirin in school, and gets charged for being a drug dealer? Common sense, I tell ya!

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!